CDC has approved 4th vaccine dose for some people

[audreyh1]

From what I have been reading there’s not much benefit from the second booster and it’s short lived. The hope is that the next vaccine may be more effective against the new variants. I probably won’t get it despite being 6 months after the first booster.

Specifically what is short-lived? It’s very important to be specific about this. Is presence of antibodies and (somewhat limited?) protection from infection short-lived? Does increased protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death last considerably longer?

Important nuances are getting lost due to poor public health communication IMO which is very unfortunate.

 

[ivinsfan]

Specifically what is short-lived? It’s very important to be specific about this. Is presence of antibodies and (somewhat limited?) protection from infection short-lived? Does increased protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death last considerably longer?

Important nuances are getting lost due to poor public health communication IMO which is very unfortunate.

You could call it poor communication, or say they don't know all of these things yet, or you could say they decided it was easier and quicker for everyone to just keep on getting revaccinated.


Sadly I don't know which one of those scenarios is true. And it's definitely unfortunate.


Did you know that starting this week the federal government removed the requirement that testing centers report the percentage of people testing positive each day? Why? This makes no sense.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Audrey, yes to both your questions.

 

[explanade]

From what I have been reading there’s not much benefit from the second booster and it’s short lived. The hope is that the next vaccine may be more effective against the new variants. I probably won’t get it despite being 6 months after the first booster.

Specifically what is short-lived? It’s very important to be specific about this. Is presence of antibodies and (somewhat limited?) protection from infection short-lived? Does increased protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death last considerably longer?

Important nuances are getting lost due to poor public health communication IMO which is very unfortunate.

Yeah antibodies wane in 4-5 months.

But still the Israelis observed increased efficacy in 56-60 and over people against infection and hospitalization.


Next vaccine may or may not be more effective. But it's probably going to be recommended just before winter hits again.

By then, maybe BA.2 is still the dominant variant or there will be a new one.

Despite all the mutations in the Omicron variants, many experts think we lucked out that we had some protection against hospitalization and death.


Congress just came to an agreement on $10 billion in funding. Not just for vaccines but tests, antivirals (Paxlovid).

So who knows, maybe shortages of vaccines at some point. At this point I would pay out of pocket if I had to.

 

[audreyh1]

Audrey, yes to both your questions.

Well in that case I value the increased protection from hospitalization and death which seems to persist much longer.

But I’ll still wait until I think my risks of exposure will increase in the short-term. Local prevalence is still dropping and I don’t have any extensive travel plans yet. We’re still masking in public and don’t really socialize. No big family gatherings are planned anytime soon.

 

[big-papa]

Got second Moderna booster on Monday. For me, just a sore shoulder like any shot and no side effects...

 

[audreyh1]

More information on 4th booster dose. Twitter thread

https://twitter.com/x/status/1511448592350908416

It references the recent NEJM paper http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2201570

 

[Time2]

Meanwhile, 'Florida Man' is maskless, waiting in lines at the restaurant, doing his shopping and life is pretty much back to normal. Very few people where masks, way less than 10%. Some people working with the public still where masks, waitresses and cashiers, but not all.
We have 8 people hospitalized in a county with a population of 180,000.
I'm still hesitant to join the gym though, darn it! I'm not really a germ freak, but when I was going, I did clean equipment before and after I used it.

 

[RobbieB]

No mask mandate, I don't wear masks. Still have mine wadded up in my pocket for doctor visits and such.

Going to sign up for the 4th dose. Easter and Memorial Day are coming up.

 

[anethum]

An Israeli study was published yesterday in the NE Journal of Medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2201570?query=featured_home

"In a study published April 5 in the New England Journal of Medicine, researchers looked at data collected on more than 1.25 million Israelis over 60.
All were "eligible for the fourth dose during a period in which the B.1.1.529 [Omicron] variant of SARS-CoV-2 was predominant"

"The number of cases of confirmed infection per 100,000 person-days (unadjusted rate) was 177 in the aggregated four-dose groups, 361 in the three-dose group, and 388 in the internal control group. In the quasi-Poisson analysis, the adjusted rate of confirmed infection in the fourth week after receipt of the fourth dose was lower than that in the three-dose group by a factor of 2.0 (95% CI, 1.9 to 2.1) and was lower than that in the internal control group by a factor of 1.8 (95% CI, 1.7 to 1.9). However, this protection waned in later weeks."

The benefits were even greater when it came to shielding a person against a severe case of COVID. Compared to people in the same age group who did not get a fourth Pfizer shot, those who did were more than 3.5 times less likely to develop severe COVID-19 within a month of getting the shot, the researchers reported. In this case, protection seemed to last, too: "Protection against severe illness did not wane during the 6 weeks after receipt of the fourth dose," the Israeli group noted.

--------------------------------------------------------

In late March another Israeli study was announced which found that "Senior citizens who received a second booster of the Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccination had a 78% lower mortality rate from the disease than those who got one only"

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...ificantly-lowers-covid-death-rate-2022-03-27/
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My understanding about the FDA's 2nd booster authorization last week is that Israeli data showed a clear benefit in people 60 years and older. They decided to lower the age threshhold to 50 because it was believed that a 2nd booster would benefit other populations at higher risk of severe disease or death.

When a 2nd booster was authorized last week, it had already been over 6 months since I received my Pfizer booster. I am in my 100 year old mother's home multiple times a week. I decided that I would get a 2nd booster, though I opted for Moderna after having 3 Pfizer doses. I had slight headaches from my first 2 Pfizer shots, a much stronger but briefer headache and probable fever from my Pfizer booster, and no side effect other than a sore arm from my Moderna booster. I always have a sore arm for a day following any shot.

I made a reservation at a CVS for each of my booster shots. In both cases, I only had to show my CDC card when I arrived, but no photo ID or insurance card. However, I had input my Medicare ID when I signed up online. For both booster shots, I was in and out of the pharmacy in less than 5 minutes.

 

[Turbo29]

This question has not been answered yet either; there is some disagreement in the scientific community.

“The question is, if you keep priming and boosting with a strain, which is basically to make an immune response against the ancestral strain, will that limit your ability then to make an immune response to a virus, which is very much different than the ancestral?” said Dr. Paul Offit, a vaccine expert at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.
Offit is describing a phenomenon immunologists call “original antigenic sin” in which the body’s immune system relies on the memory of its first encounter with a virus, sometimes leading to a weaker immune response when it later encounters another version of the virus.

Vaccines can activate this phenomenon, too, said Offit, also a member of the Food and Drug Administration’s vaccine advisory committee. An example is with the human papillomavirus, or HPV, following the release of an updated vaccine that targeted nine strains of the virus instead of just four in the initial shot, he said.
“If you got HPV4 and then got HPV9, knowing that the four strains in [HPV]4 were also in [HPV]9, you had a very good immune response to the four strains, but you didn’t have as good as an immune response to the other five strains,” he said.
Theoretically, it could apply to Covid, too, Offit said.


https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...ategy-omicron-boost-original-vaccine-rcna7451


The article was back a few months during Omicron but the question still stands: Is it good to continually boost with the original strain and what implications does that boosting have down the road if a new vaccine is developed for different strain?

 

[TrvlBug]

... ...
I'm still hesitant to join the gym though, darn it! I'm not really a germ freak, but when I was going, I did clean equipment before and after I used it.

Have you thought about wearing a valved N95? They make breathing much, much easier. DH and I do and other than cardio, we don't even notice we're wearing them at the weights or stretching.

 

[Time2]

Have you thought about wearing a valved N95? They make breathing much, much easier. DH and I do and other than cardio, we don't even notice we're wearing them at the weights or stretching.

I haven't, but that is a possibility.


I had a thought after posting about cleaning equipment before and after.
Why don't we all clean before, that way we don't need to concern ourselves with those that don't clean after they use the equipment.
ie, make the rule clean before you use, not after.

 

[RobbieB]

I'd be more worried about all the people "huffing and puffing" while exercising than surfaces.

 

[explanade]

Haven't been in a gym in over 2 years. Bought an exercise bike and do brisk walks.

Unfortunately, there isn't as easy a solution for strength training.

 

[Turbo29]

Although fomite (surface) transmission of covid 19 is now thought to be very rare, in a gym there are plenty of other reasons to wipe the equipment down. For instance the percentage of patrons who wash their hands after using the restroom (and before handling the equipment) is abysmal. Then there are those who leave a pool of sweat on the equipment and don't clean it up, etc.

 

[kyzymurgist]

I don't recall who mentioned the Serimmune antibody study in this group but thank you! Those results were quite informative.

DW and I still have high vaccine induced antibodies from last falls booster so no need for another booster at this time.

As expected, we had no antibodies to non-spike SARS-CoV-2 proteins so we never had an asymptomatic infection.

They retest every 6 months so we will reevaluate when we get the next results late summer.

Also interesting was the lack of any Lyme disease antibodies after a decade since my infection. Probably not surprising given the length of time. Antibodies dissipate.

 

[Aerides]

Haven't been in a gym in over 2 years. Bought an exercise bike and do brisk walks.

Unfortunately, there isn't as easy a solution for strength training.

Garage+cash! easy peasy.

 

[Rianne]

The discussion is missing the power of B and T cells. There are long scientific articles that I cannot understand about how these cells work. Everyone seems to talk about antibodies, but these are the cells that immunocompromised people have issues with. My DB has no B cells because of a disease. And a low T cell count. This is a much bigger problem for him. They are activated by antibodies and the vaccines do that. I'm posting a simplistic version of the idea that vaccines last longer than you think.

"The big picture: Variants are testing the success of the COVID-19 vaccines, as antibody levels typically drop after peaking from infection or vaccination.

The immune system generally uses neutralizing antibodies to fight against initial infection. Memory B cells, which have long-term protective capability, and T cells work to minimize the severity of disease."

Prior infection or vaccination can trigger the body's range of responses."
https://www.axios.com/covid-variant...ity-444cb12a-8f0f-4b63-a480-823aea515698.html

 

[Badger]

Haven't been in a gym in over 2 years. Bought an exercise bike and do brisk walks.

Unfortunately, there isn't as easy a solution for strength training.

The easy and inexpensive way for strength training that involves very little money is to use elastic bands or tubes like in physical therapy. There are many different resistances (some easy and others that would challenge any bodybuilder) and youtube has many dozens of videos for exercising various muscles with resistance bands. I even screwed eye bolts in a wood post at differing heights and use S hooks to move the bands/tubes. I use a recumbent trike for lower body and the resistance bands for upper body PT.

Cheers!

 

[tmm99]

Haven't been in a gym in over 2 years. Bought an exercise bike and do brisk walks.

Unfortunately, there isn't as easy a solution for strength training.

We bought a Bowflex machine (PR3000) and put it in our basement. I used it every day when indoor activities were restricted due to COVID. Now that I can do other indoor activities, I hardly use it, but DH still uses it almost every day.

 

[RobbieB]

Going to Modesto tomorrow for the second booster. Will have a nice lunch after -

 

[explanade]

Got Moderna on Wednesday, just before Noon.

Now starting to feel okay Friday afternoon.

No fever though every time I woke from sleep, there was some light perspiration.

Mostly soreness at the injection site, muscle aches all over and bit dizzy and lightheaded.

 

[MC Rider]

Moderna booster today here too.
Previously J&J shots 5 months and a year ago.
TDap in there too a while ago.



Tiny arm soreness.
Prior shots had about 0 other side effects.
So far so good after 8 hours.

 

[harllee]

I plan to get my second Moderna booster after I am sure I did not catch Covid at the Final Four basketball tournament in New Orleans (there was a lot of yelling, hugging and high fives when my UNC team beat Duke). I feel fine so far and have tested negative. I figure that if I make it 10 days from the last game without symptoms or a positive test I am most likely not getting Covid and it will be safe for me to get the booster.