Cigarette smell from our semi-detached neighbor is seeping in

[tmm99]

We ordered this from Amazon a couple of days ago. I'm hoping we could tell something using this cheapy device...after either raising our room temp much higher or lowering it by a huge margin to create some temp difference for air leaks.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0044R87BE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Sojourner]

Get a decent air filter. Hotels and cruise lines use them all the time and they do wonders.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=hepa+air+filter

+1

Buy a high quality, high volume HEPA air filter and put it nearest the most likely place(s) the smoke is coming in. And, if you haven't already, I'd try upgrading your HVAC filters to ones that are rated for smoke and microscopic allergens. Look for at least MERV 13 or FPR 10 rating.

 

[tmm99]

A 12'' thread with a ping pong ball glued to it would blow in a light breeze indicating the direction if you have something to hang it from.
If anybody asked, you could say it stops birds from flying into the window.

The floor joists in the basement when you look up, are they extending from the duplex side to the other side, if so they may be embedded into the block wall (or a steel beam could be), and is there any chance if the neighbors are smoking in the basement that it comes in that way?

The ping pong ball idea sounds good. I'll talk to DH.

Ah, as for the floor joists in the basement, it doesn't look like anything is extending out from our side. It's possible that they are smoking in the basement, but I cannot detect any smoke smell in the furnace room. The other side of the furnace room is our garage, but the garage has so many different smells that I just can't tell what smells are there.

I'll post photos later.

 

[tmm99]

If it's cinderblock and not poured concrete it is very porous (moisture and air). I wonder if covering that wall with drywall and/or sealing it with a vapor barrier (plastic sheeting or paint) might help. That would be more effort than many of the other ideas being tossed about.

I actually don't know if it's cinderblcok or concrete... I emailed the agent (who used to be a builder) who sold this house to us with the question.

 

[RunningBum]

Have you asked your neighbors where they smoke? Just say you are trying to figure out how the smoke smell is getting into your house and how to eliminate it, not that you are asking them to stop. Maybe they will also take a hint to smoke on the other side of their house.

 

[splitwdw]

If the cigarette smoke is coming into your house, your house and furnishings will smell like cigarettes too. You said after speaking to the owner that the smell miraculously disappeared. It normally won't disappear, it lingers until you clean it. Is it the smoke you smell or the dirty ashtrays and butt bucket? My husband use to smoke, only in our detached garage. You could smell (only if you were not a smoker, smokers don't smell it) the residue from the cigarettes on all the paperwork kept out there, there was a yellow film on all surfaces, 1 convertible that was stored in 1 of the back garages had to have the convertible top and upholstery professionally cleaned. We had to clean and repaint all surfaces, all paper had to be left in a covered plastic tub with open cannisters of baking soda to get rid of the smell. I just got a cardboard box down from the attic and you can still faintly smell cigarettes. He quit about 5 years ago. We did all the clean up after he was quit for a while and he could smell it and it bothered him. He asked me how I could stand the smell. He said it was like sitting in the middle of a dirty ash tray. Smokers don't realize about the smell until they stop. Sorry, I'm no help in how the smell is getting into your home.
I am also surprised that you have a bare block wall. In my area of the U.S., the walls have a vapor barrier and sheetrock over the block walls.

 

[GrayHare]

Along the shared wall build an inner wall but leave a gap of a couple inches, then run an exhaust fan to ventilate the space between.

 

[JoeWras]

Regarding the thought that this is coming from the furnace intake. I’m no expert, but wouldn’t that be a bigger problem? I thought the air coming from the intake was only for combustion. Combustion air should not be reaching inside the house. Do you have a carbon monoxide detector?

Some newer systems, and now most commercial systems, have an fresh air intake that mixes with the heated forced air. This is to cause positive pressure and air turnover in tight homes. This setup is uncommon on older homes.

Combustion input is a different matter and should not cause any smells. Condensing furnaces all have these.

 

[tmm99]

+1

Buy a high quality, high volume HEPA air filter and put it nearest the most likely place(s) the smoke is coming in. And, if you haven't already, I'd try upgrading your HVAC filters to ones that are rated for smoke and microscopic allergens. Look for at least MERV 13 or FPR 10 rating.

I bought two of these and paid over $130CAD each at Lowe's I believe. They don't do squat even when I put two of them together. Do air filters ever work??
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B004VGIGVY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Costco has a more heavy duty one for like $400CAD, but I'm hesitating a bit. I could always return it if it doesn't work, so I should probably just do it, but I want to spend big money to try to eliminate the cause.


I didn't know about HVAC filters for smoke etc. I will definitely get one of those! Thank you!

 

[haha]

Along the shared wall build an inner wall but leave a gap of a couple inches, then run an exhaust fan to ventilate the space between.

This is an interesting idea, but I believe it is much more likely that the smell comes in via the outdoors, or some as yet undiscovered portal.

If Canada has a similar concentration of smokers as the US, it won't be long until these renters move and non-smokers move in. In Seattle, there are essentially 3 groups of smokers: Old people who could not quit, poor people, and hipsters.

In any case, almost anywhere north of the Rio Grande smokers are close to being an insignificant minority.

Ha

 

[tmm99]

So sorry everyone. The common wall does have drywall over it. DH just came home and said it does have drywall on top. He said he drilled through it so he knows (the first part went in easily and then it hit the hard wall.) So sorry for giving you misinformation. DH doesn't want to take the drywall down and add this klin oil painting over it if he could help it since taking off the drywall evidently makes a huge mess. Would it help to add oil-based paint over the drywall?

As for the wall, the agent didn't know what kind it is. DH thinks it's a cinderblock wall. he drilled holes in it to hang a picture frame, and he thinks the concrete wall would be harder to drill through, but that's just a guess.

Here's the common wall (garage).

 

[tmm99]

This is an interesting idea, but I believe it is much more likely that the smell comes in via the outdoors, or some as yet undiscovered portal.

If Canada has a similar concentration of smokers as the US, it won't be long until these renters move and non-smokers move in. In Seattle, there are essentially 3 groups of smokers: Old people who could not quit, poor people, and hipsters.

In any case, almost anywhere north of the Rio Grande smokers are close to being an insignificant minority.

Ha

I am leaning on the outdoor theory, too, plus some other leaks somewhere maybe? I never smell the food smell coming from their side. It's just strange we didn't detect any cig smell for 3 months straight though.

There seem to be a lot of smokers here - cigarettes cost a lot here too, but it doesn't seem to deter them.

 

[GrayHare]

If the smoke were coming from outside the OP would have noticed the smoke during the summer while the neighbors were smoking outside. Instead the OP noticed the smoke when the neighbors moved their smoking indoors, hence its mostly coming from indoors.

 

[travelover]

I wonder if something like this could be added to your furnace return duct to positively pressurize the house. https://www.builderonline.com/products/hvac/positive-pressure-ventilation_o

The system you describe, a duct from outdoors to the return side of your air handler, is one of the simplest supply-only setups. An add-on control for the heating and cooling system, the AirCycler (www.aircycler.com), will open and shut the intake damper as required and run the air handler fan on a user-specified schedule (typically, for 10 minutes every ½ hour to 1 hour).

This article is interesting in that it discusses reasons for negative pressure including wind. https://www.ecohome.net/guides/2221...se-your-house-sucks-oh-yeah-your-house-blows/

Wind creates either positive or negative air pressure on a particular side of a building, forcing air in on some sides and forcing it out on others. Aside from being blocked by other buildings or planting a stand of evergreen trees, the only thing you can do to stop wind pressure is to work overtime when you are sealing up your house in the first place.

 

[tmm99]

If the cigarette smoke is coming into your house, your house and furnishings will smell like cigarettes too. You said after speaking to the owner that the smell miraculously disappeared. It normally won't disappear, it lingers until you clean it. Is it the smoke you smell or the dirty ashtrays and butt bucket? My husband use to smoke, only in our detached garage. You could smell (only if you were not a smoker, smokers don't smell it) the residue from the cigarettes on all the paperwork kept out there, there was a yellow film on all surfaces, 1 convertible that was stored in 1 of the back garages had to have the convertible top and upholstery professionally cleaned. We had to clean and repaint all surfaces, all paper had to be left in a covered plastic tub with open cannisters of baking soda to get rid of the smell. I just got a cardboard box down from the attic and you can still faintly smell cigarettes. He quit about 5 years ago. We did all the clean up after he was quit for a while and he could smell it and it bothered him. He asked me how I could stand the smell. He said it was like sitting in the middle of a dirty ash tray. Smokers don't realize about the smell until they stop. Sorry, I'm no help in how the smell is getting into your home.
I am also surprised that you have a bare block wall. In my area of the U.S., the walls have a vapor barrier and sheetrock over the block walls.

The accumulation of cig butts was much smaller when the cig smell disappeared miraculously a day after we complained to the landlord. Actually, it took maybe half a day to a day for it to clear, but it stopped and didn't come back for months. I think your case is a little different from this. It's not like they're smoking in our living room. I stayed with a friend who smoked inside her house and it was like what you described- everything reeked of cig smell. My case is some smoke smell seeping in from the other side. Like the blanket I have on the couch, if I put that over my nose, I can't smell any cig smell.

I'm thinking about how to approach the ashtray issue with our neighbor. I really really do not want to talk to them, but we may have to if the landlord doesn't step up...

 

[38Chevy454]

Here's the common wall (garage).

That appears to be a poured concrete wall. Not cinder block.

 

[pb4uski]

+1

 

[tmm99]

If the smoke were coming from outside the OP would have noticed the smoke during the summer while the neighbors were smoking outside. Instead the OP noticed the smoke when the neighbors moved their smoking indoors, hence its mostly coming from indoors.

Just to clarify... You said "the OP noticed the smoke when the neighbors moved their smoking indoors". That's not exactly what I meant to say. I'm just speculating they are smoking indoors. I don't know for sure. It is still possible that they're just smoking outdoors and somehow the smoke is coming into our house.

It's possible that maybe the air pressure was different in the summertime and that's the reason we didn't get as much smoke inside our house? I don't know.

If the common wall had a leak, would I be smelling the food they're cooking? Because I haven't detected any smell coming from their side except for the cig smell...

 

[tmm99]

That appears to be a poured concrete wall. Not cinder block.

DH says the basement is poured concrete (the garage is on the basement level) and the main floor and upstairs are cinderblock.

 

[Winemaker]

The issue is a ventilation pressure problem. Air/liquid always flows from a high pressure area to a low pressure area in order to reach equilibrium. Do you have a closed heating system? Take a few switch plates off walls and check the common wall for egress. Obtain or make a smoke tube using a few matches/candle and a paper towel tube. Extinguish the flame and place the tube over the smoke near the switches/outlets/cracks. Check the ingress or egress of the smoke direction to confirm; with and without the furnace running. Then seal that area, switch plate insulators are available, cracks are sealable. Close or minimize cold air returns in rooms closest to common wall. Open or maximize cold air returns in rooms furthest from the common wall. If your neighbors smoke in the bathroom with a bathroom fan running, that contaminated air goes into the attic. If your bath fan is not running, it is a intake source and a venturi effect from your furnace will pull that contaminated into your living space. Check your kitchen fan as well if it vents to attic, minimize the kitchen cold air return. If your heating system is requiring air, it will pull from the easiest place. So make it work harder to suck smoky air and make it easy to use fresher air.

It will also take a little work from you because it is a ventilation system and there are many moving parts. I had similar problems on a huge scale when dealing with sealed areas/ old works in coal mines. Contaminants from a supposed sealed area was infiltrating active works of the mine, diminishing air quality. It happens all the time.

 

[Aerides]

I think a chat with them might be in order (the neighbors). Maybe one on one (DH with the husband, or you with the wife, so it's not teaming up.

Maybe from the standpoint of "hey, for a few months there we were great, what can WE do to HELP get back to whatever that was, because it was working well for everyone."

 

[JoeWras]

If the smoke were coming from outside the OP would have noticed the smoke during the summer while the neighbors were smoking outside. Instead the OP noticed the smoke when the neighbors moved their smoking indoors, hence its mostly coming from indoors.

Maybe not. In the summer, no furnace. Not sure if OP has central air, or needs it in ON, or even uses it.

In winter, with furnace on, the draw of the combustion could be sucking air into the house through outdoor cracks, so only now is it being noticed.

And maybe the neighbors are still smoking outside, but more discreetly. If they told the landlord no smoking inside, they may still be doing it outside.

 

[Sunset]

The issue is a ventilation pressure problem. Air/liquid always flows from a high pressure area to a low pressure area in order to reach equilibrium. Do you have a closed heating system? Take a few switch plates off walls and check the common wall for egress. Obtain or make a smoke tube using a few matches/candle and a paper towel tube. Extinguish the flame and place the tube over the smoke near the switches/outlets/cracks. Check the ingress or egress of the smoke direction to confirm; with and without the furnace running. Then seal that area, switch plate insulators are available, cracks are sealable. Close or minimize cold air returns in rooms closest to common wall. Open or maximize cold air returns in rooms furthest from the common wall. If your neighbors smoke in the bathroom with a bathroom fan running, that contaminated air goes into the attic. If your bath fan is not running, it is a intake source and a venturi effect from your furnace will pull that contaminated into your living space. Check your kitchen fan as well if it vents to attic, minimize the kitchen cold air return. If your heating system is requiring air, it will pull from the easiest place. So make it work harder to suck smoky air and make it easy to use fresher air.

It will also take a little work from you because it is a ventilation system and there are many moving parts. I had similar problems on a huge scale when dealing with sealed areas/ old works in coal mines. Contaminants from a supposed sealed area was infiltrating active works of the mine, diminishing air quality. It happens all the time.

Yes some air could be coming in the switch plates and the sill plate (bottom of wall to outside).
I would use an incense stick to check for air leakage, as much less chance of setting the house on fire.

 

[tmm99]

Maybe not. In the summer, no furnace. Not sure if OP has central air, or needs it in ON, or even uses it.

In winter, with a furnace on, the draw of the combustion could be sucking air into the house through outdoor cracks, so only now is it being noticed.

And maybe the neighbors are still smoking outside, but more discreetly. If they told the landlord no smoking inside, they may still be doing it outside.

We have central air, and both A/C and heat are set up to turn on as needed. The first detection of smoke was the end of September, beginning of October timeframe, so it's hard to say what might have been on if any. Right now, obviously, no A/C will turn on.

 

[tmm99]

Yes some air could be coming in the switch plates and the sill plate (bottom of wall to outside).
I would use an incense stick to check for air leakage, as much less chance of setting the house on fire.

Funny you mention incense sticks! I got them at Walmart yesterday, and when I got home, I couldn't find our birthday cake lighter to light them with! (I was going to open the front door to see if it'll suck air (=low pressure)). I also purchased switch plate seals from Lowe's 2 days ago which need to be added to the switch plates, but I'll definitely check the air flow with the incense stick before we apply the seal.