College Football

[Aerides]

(I don't understand what y'all are arguing about, but dial it back please, it's Christmas)

 

[Montecfo]

Agree, and thanks Aerides.

In the playoff era, 12 Power 5 champs have not made the playoff. Here is the breakdown:

Pac 12- 5
Big12 -4
Big 10 -3

 

[RunningBum]

I'm not going to continue this argument. I stand by what I said. Merry Christmas to all.

 

[pb4uski]

Wow, relax. There was nothing biased about what I said. And certainly nothing ignorant.

But have a good day, and Merry Christmas!

Perhaps it wasn't biased or ignorant... just misleading.

You suggested that I said that the Big 10 should get a rep in the BCS every year when I clearly did not say that (which I explained).

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it was a misguided attempt at humor that went off the rails.

 

[ziggy29]

Perhaps it wasn't biased or ignorant... just misleading.

You suggested that I said that the Big 10 should get a rep in the BCS every year when I clearly did not say that (which I explained).

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it was a misguided attempt at humor that went off the rails.

I think with a 4-team playoff, you obviously can't do that. With an 8-team playoff it's easy to make sure that each P5 conference, and at least one G5 conference, is represented.

Then, if Alabama, Clemson or Ohio State don't win their conference championship, the "polls" can still make sure at least two of them can get in with at-large bids.

 

[G8tr]

I like the idea of an 8 team playoff. It keeps the same top teams from dominating for a 5+ year stretch.

I think with a 4-team playoff, you obviously can't do that. With an 8-team playoff it's easy to make sure that each P5 conference, and at least one G5 conference, is represented.

Then, if Alabama, Clemson or Ohio State don't win their conference championship, the "polls" can still make sure at least two of them can get in with at-large bids.

 

[ziggy29]

I like the idea of an 8 team playoff. It keeps the same top teams from dominating for a 5+ year stretch.

They may still dominate, but others will at least have a real chance to break the dominance.

 

[youbet]

Isn't the structure of the BCS playoffs designed to maximize revenue? If that is not optimized now, then changes should be made to do so.

Fairness to players, teams, schools, conferences, fans, etc. has little to do with it beyond happy fans being spending fans. Major college sports are big business and need to be run accordingly.

 

[ziggy29]

Isn't the structure of the BCS playoffs designed to maximize revenue? If that is not optimized now, then changes should be made to do so.

Fairness to players, teams, schools, conferences, fans, etc. has little to do with it beyond happy fans being spending fans. Major college sports are big business and need to be run accordingly.

1. The BCS is no more. It has been replaced by the CFP (College Football Playoff) system.

2. If they want to be treated as a business, then they can be taxed like one, through the "Unrelated Business Income Tax". At least in terms of big time college football (and men's basketball), the educational mission -- which justifies the tax exemption -- took a back seat to "making a buck" a long time ago. If the primary mission is to make money rather than to promote education...

 

[Montecfo]

Perhaps it wasn't biased or ignorant... just misleading.

You suggested that I said that the Big 10 should get a rep in the BCS every year when I clearly did not say that (which I explained).

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it was a misguided attempt at humor that went off the rails.

With a laugh, no it was not biased or ignorant nor was it an attempt at humor. Thanks for the benefit. If you notice, I simply asked a question.

And I have trouble understanding why a fellow poster would suggest another was "ignorant". That just seems totally out of bounds to me.
I also never thought there was an argument, at least not from my perspective. Perhaps misunderstanding.

Leagues moving the goalposts so to speak seems wrong to me. Both the Big 10 and ACC did this.

OSU has a huge advantage of not having played a full schedule and risking loss and injury week in and week out as other playoff teams did. Coaches Kelly and Swinney both mentioned this specifically.

Factually, the Big 12 and Pac 12 have had the most conference champions fail to make the playoff.

But I did not intend the question I asked to be a big deal. It sounds like everyone agrees no one has automatic invites and no one should.

 

[youbet]

1. The BCS is no more. It has been replaced by the CFP (College Football Playoff) system.

2. If they want to be treated as a business, then they can be taxed like one, through the "Unrelated Business Income Tax". At least in terms of big time college football (and men's basketball), the educational mission -- which justifies the tax exemption -- took a back seat to "making a buck" a long time ago. If the primary mission is to make money rather than to promote education...

Thanks for the "CFP" reminder Zig. Too much eggnog last night.......

I didn't say they wanted to be treated like a business and pay taxes. I said they should maximize revenue/profit like a business. This is SOP for non-profits including churches, charities, etc.

They need to structure the playoffs to maximize the dollars available from profits to distribute to support their overall mission, whatever that is. If it weren't for the uber-popular men's sports such as football and basketball, women's field hockey (my grand daughter's sport and she's an all conference goalie!) and other low attendance sports likely wouldn't exist. So, the popular sports need to be milked efficiently like any other revenue generator.

Now, having said that, I readily admit to having no clue how the football playoffs should be structured to maximize their financial performance.

 

[Bamaman]

And from my name, you can figure out what I've got to say.

Roll Tide

Do you know that 2/3 of all University of Alabama students are from out of state? They'd rather pay out of state tuition AND be assured of being a winner.

 

[Dawg52]

And from my name, you can figure out what I've got to say.

Roll Tide

Do you know that 2/3 of all University of Alabama students are from out of state? They'd rather pay out of state tuition AND be assured of being a winner.

Apparently you don't have to pay a nickel around here to be considered a "winner". I know several sidewalk bama fans that have never stepped foot on UA's campus. Yet they pull for them as if they got a PhD from there.

 

[Montecfo]

As I said, good G5 teams have beaten good P5 teams in bowls. But we'll never know in the CFP if a #7 or 8 could win because the P5 won't let it happen.

Yea. But not the best teams. The G5 do not recruit the same players as the elite P5 teams. There has not been a G5 that warranted inclusion in the playoff, at least not to date. They play lesser competition and usually do not put together resumes comparable to the playoff-level teams.

I'd love to see it.

 

[ziggy29]

Yea. But not the best teams. The G5 do not recruit the same players as the elite P5 teams. There has not been a G5 that warranted inclusion in the playoff, at least not to date. They play lesser competition and usually do not put together resumes comparable to the playoff-level teams.

I'd love to see it.

A big part of the problem is that the system, including this playoff system, makes that a self-fulfilling prophecy, so to speak. It’s easy to say the G5 doesn’t deserve a shot because they have not proven worthy, but they can’t prove it under the current caste system. It’s a variant on “no experience, no job” and “no job, no experience”.

 

[Montecfo]

A big part of the problem is that the system, including this playoff system, makes that a self-fulfilling prophecy, so to speak. It’s easy to say the G5 doesn’t deserve a shot because they have not proven worthy, but they can’t prove it under the current caste system. It’s a variant on “no experience, no job” and “no job, no experience”.

Schedule tough teams in the non-confidence.

But if a team has not played tough teams, how can they be highly rated?

You need to have some sort of tradition too in order to.be perceived as worthy.

 

[G8tr]

And if lesser known schools don't get a real shot, how can they recruit better players? Yes, we've all seen the "cupcake" games, but those are often used by big schools as warm up games at the beginning of the season or midsession for 2nd/3rd string player experience.

Schedule tough teams in the non-confidence.

But if a team has not played tough teams, how can they be highly rated?

You need to have some sort of tradition too in order to.be perceived as worthy.

 

[Montecfo]

And if lesser known schools don't get a real shot, how can they recruit better players? Yes, we've all seen the "cupcake" games, but those are often used by big schools as warm up games at the beginning of the season or midsession for 2nd/3rd string player experience.

The G5 are not going to recruit the best players because they are not in the conferences that provide the clearest path to the NFL.

Candidly the only way this changes is if you limit scholarships further or otherwise limit who the major programs can sign.

I'm not sure that is in the student athletes' best interest.

G5 schools can challenge the Power 5 if they have clever coaches that innovate. Recall Mountain West conference member Utah in 2004. They beat 3 or 4 P5 teams (but no elite programs) convincingly en route to a 12-0 season. They did so with lesser athletes generally. But they had a pretty good QB, a fellow named Alex Smith, and a very creative coach (Urban Meyer who they hired from Bowling Green) and his new offensive wrinkle in their running attack which was dubbed the "zone read".

That's the kind of planet alignment needed and obviously it is going to be rare.

 

[GTFan]

Isn't the structure of the BCS playoffs designed to maximize revenue?

Revenue for the P5, sure. Everyone else gets to pound sand.

 

[GTFan]

There has not been a G5 that warranted inclusion in the playoff, at least not to date.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Cincy deserved it this year over, say ND. They dominated everyone. This was a unique year where they should've been given a shot but no G5 team gets one no matter the circumstances.

The point here as mentioned above is that the G5 will never get a sniff even if they schedule and win good non-conf games. We'll never know if they can move up with recruits, money, facilities etc. because the P5 keeps the boot heel firmly in place.

 

[Montecfo]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Cincy deserved it this year over, say ND. They dominated everyone. This was a unique year where they should've been given a shot but no G5 team gets one no matter the circumstances.

The point here as mentioned above is that the G5 will never get a sniff and we'll never know if they can move up with recruits etc. because the P5 won't let them.

What team known to be good did they dominate?

I noticed they beat UCF by a field goal a month ago. UCF got blown out by BYU a couple of days ago. BYU is currently #16, 8 notches behind Cincy.

ND's resume may be questioned, I agree with you there, but they did beat highly ranked Clemson as well as Harlee's North Carolina ball team. Surely you are not discounting Harley's blue juggernaut?

 

[harllee]

Too bad there cannot be a March madness type play off for college football like there is for college basketball. In college basketball there are often Cinderella teams that make it to the Final Four--that is what makes March madness so much fun to watch. I guess with football it is not not possible to have a 64 team playoff.

 

[RunningBum]

FCS has a 24 team playoff, with the top 8 teams having a bye. But they have the first round games the last weekend in November (as early as Nov 24), so the FBS/CFP season would have to end earlier, including conference championship games. I suppose you could incorporate those into the playoffs, but that would give a few teams like Notre Dame (until this year) a bye, which seems unfair.

For teams that continue on in the playoffs it would disrupt finals. Somehow education is apparently a bigger thing at this level than FCS, which I doubt. And it would pretty much eliminate the bowls. I don't get how the bowls have such power over the process if the TV revenue would be higher with a playoff. The bowls could even take what's left of the teams that didn't make the playoffs.

Could be that some coaches don't like it because a playoff like this leaves 23 of the top 24 teams with a season ending loss. If there are 40 bowl games, then 40 teams go out with a win, or maybe 38 if that's counting the semifinals as bowls.

I've followed the FCS playoffs because my son's alma mater usually makes them and have gone to the finals 4 times since he first went there. It's really exciting to have 4 or 5 absolutely must win games.

 

[Montecfo]

Too bad there cannot be a March madness type play off for college football like there is for college basketball. In college basketball there are often Cinderella teams that make it to the Final Four--that is what makes March madness so much fun to watch. I guess with football it is not not possible to have a 64 team playoff.

Agree but there is a really good reason mid-majors can have deep runs into the basketball tournament: there are only 5 players per team on the court at the same time. So mid majors that shoot the 3 well can create mismatch issues for majors with more talented front lines and deeper benches, for example.

In college football, there is really no parallel because it is much harder for a single player to make the same impact as one of 11 versus one of 5. Also, the G5 teams have less team speed.

For these reasons and others, I do not think you will have a large post season tournament in FBS football.

 

[Montecfo]

FCS has a 24 team playoff, with the top 8 teams having a bye. But they have the first round games the last weekend in November (as early as Nov 24), so the FBS/CFP season would have to end earlier, including conference championship games. I suppose you could incorporate those into the playoffs, but that would give a few teams like Notre Dame (until this year) a bye, which seems unfair.

For teams that continue on in the playoffs it would disrupt finals. Somehow education is apparently a bigger thing at this level than FCS, which I doubt. And it would pretty much eliminate the bowls. I don't get how the bowls have such power over the process if the TV revenue would be higher with a playoff. The bowls could even take what's left of the teams that didn't make the playoffs.

Could be that some coaches don't like it because a playoff like this leaves 23 of the top 24 teams with a season ending loss. If there are 40 bowl games, then 40 teams go out with a win, or maybe 38 if that's counting the semifinals as bowls.

I've followed the FCS playoffs because my son's alma mater usually makes them and have gone to the finals 4 times since he first went there. It's really exciting to have 4 or 5 absolutely must win games.

FCS does not have the TV money that the P5 have. For that reason the teams are more evenly matched so a larger playoff makes more sense in my view.

James Madison has had some very good teams of late and there are certainly a handful of powerhouse programs in FCS that have strong traditions and end up among the final four regularly.

I think a 6 team playoff in FBS could make sense as some have suggested, with the top 2 teams having a bye. That would at least prevent teams 5 and 6 from getting blown out the first weekend.

It could have an impact in a year like this where you have two very strong teams right at the top, a gap and then several others. Teams 3 and 4 (Ohio State and ND) I think could have rough games against Texas A&M or Oklahoma.

One possible unintended consequence of more playoff type games in FBS is more players opting out for fear of injury hurting pro careers. This is not so much a factor in FCS where far fewer players go on to the pros.