Considering a remodel? You might want to wait.

[Tom52]

I'm @ 9 months since contract for a (relatively) simple pool. Everything is taking longer. Everything that was supposed to happen week after week is month after month. Walking, not sprinting.

Yes, this is the worst time to be doing this, everyone is doing upgrades. But yeah a good GC - one throat to choke - is mandatory in the best of times.

At the end of it all, if schedule overruns are the only lasting issue, count yourself lucky. Remodels almost always far exceed schedule in the best of times.

In The Villages FL the big local pool company has a 5 to 6 month backlog before they will come out to give a quote! I wonder what the backlog is for actually building/installing a pool after the contract is signed.

 

[Bamaman]

Sangiovese, unfortunately around here, without a down payment cheque, you won't get on a schedule or get materials ordered. It's risky, but it is also the reason that I let a roofing contract to higher price bid since I felt more confident that they could deliver. I guess that we shall see in the next month whether that was a good decision.

When I last had a house roofed, I asked the roofer to give me a list of supplies to have delivered. I had the shingles, tar paper, nails, etc. there the next day, and I directly paid for those supplies. The roofer was out no money out of pocket.

When good roofers show up, they'll most often tear off the old roof in one day. And they're roofing it the next day. And I pay them when the job is complete. He's not out any pay as he does the job so fast and he's not paying his help until Friday.

My "new" home is now 12 years old, and I expect to have to roof it within another 3-4 years. The biggest problem will be finding a roofing crew for a fair price. The prices being charged for roofing is getting higher all the time. I'm not above paying good money, but don't rip me off.

 

[Jerry1]

Your power to get things done is dependent on specific damage and/or reward dates of completion spelled out in your original contract and how much money you withhold at various stages of completion. Don’t pay more than 25%, 50% and 75% and so on until at least that much of the final project is actually complete. It’s best to still be holding the last 20% or more when he states he’s done until inspections are completed and you use it awhile to know nothing is missed. If you handle construction this way you will be a priority customer at the top of his list.

While your thoughts are sound, the world has changed. Good luck finding someone to give you a contract with those terms. Unfortunately, it’s a contractor’s market. If you call them out for a quote and start talking about terms and conditions, they will lose patience with you and you’ll never see them again. Of course you could add a premium to the price and you may get their attention, but in general, the buyer just doesn’t have much, if any, leverage in the current environment.

Similar to buying a house. Used to be the seller would price the house and a buyer would offer something less and a negotiation would ensue. Now, the seller prices the house and the houses sell for more than asking price. Things have changed.

 

[USGrant1962]

Contractor work for household improvements is extremely tough right now. These guys were shut down for months in the early stages of Covid-19 when no one wanted anyone near their houses. Then, everyone was awash in helicopter money and decided that staying home a lot justified home improvements. So all that pent up demand started being released a few months ago and there is a huge backlog. Throw in the supply chain disruptions and free money for unemployment (they can't get workers) and it is quite a mess.

We've been renovating the summer house, built by FIL in the early 1970s, and have had fits. We need a roof repair and have a really good roofer that replaced the whole thing two years ago (the repair has nothing to do with their work) and he came out but won't commit to anything.

Our bathroom and powder room renovations are now 4 months late because our contractor is late on his current job (he can't get windows and other materials delivered on time due to Covid) and he had Covid-19 and then some other medical issues.

It will take a while for the Covid-19 disruption to work their way through the system. Hopefully government actions won't make it worse, but I'm not optimistic.

 

[Markola]

I appreciate all the well-wishes. We can see the finish line, so we aren’t going to change horses at this point, even though I’ve certainly had my “moments.”

The latest cluster is, two weeks ago, we had a kitchen full of young fellows who were the electrical subs. Not one was wearing a mask. Turns out, one had been exposed, so our construction company owner pulled her related employees off of all job sites for two weeks, including our on-site manager who barely wears a mask himself. (DW and I are vaccinated). So, nothing substantial is happening this week here, losing more time. We only learned about the situation when we emailed the owner to say we hadn’t seen the on-site guy in quite a while.

I’m telling ya, don’t be me. Wait. I’d ask if anyone knows a good PTSD doctor but, fortunately, trout season starts Saturday, so I will be making myself scarce soon, probably to DW’s relief.

 

[RetireeRobert]

Most refacings with new doors and backsplash have been coming in around $7-8k + countertops (usually $3-5k) + appliances for POR.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gvm53NdGytYUoEkPA

'"POR"?

 

[Music Lover]

Threads like this remind me how nice and stress free it is to be a competent DIYer. I shingled my own house and garage (2 days each) with a little help, saved at least $4000 in labour or $1000 a day.

I also did my own (well, 90% of it) major reno. I probably saved $30k by doing most of the work myself over 6 months. I actually could have done it in about 2 months but wasn't in a major hurry and still had a life to live.

And for someone of modest means, $30k saved = a year of expenses.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

My pool was contracted before COVID (December 2019) to be installed “first on their list” in the spring. Of course COVID hit and there were many delays, but everyone who came said how lucky I was to have contracted pre COVID. The got us into the water by July but the final landscaping want able to start until fall. There was one mistake that was made during the build which still isn’t repaired. They were just out a couple days ago. They actually had the parts they needed, which apparently were on back order all last year, but they still had to figure out how to actually pull off the repair. They said they’d be back in a couple days. I’ll be lucky if they’re back in a couple weeks and I don’t expect they’ll ever get it done. My guess is I’ll end up in small claims court with the guy.

There’s other things that should be addressed, but the one issue has (needs) to be fixed. Unfortunately, the guy never calls me back or answers emails. As said above, he does seem to react to this one issue, but everything else doesn’t appear will ever be addressed.

The good thing is that at least we can swim and the grandkids enjoy the pool. Hopefully, at least the one issue will be fixed this year because it presents a tripping hazard and the safety measures look like crap.

Pools tend to take FOREVER to build and I see it chronicled everyday on a pool forum I am active with. Our neighbor's pool took almost a full year to build once they broke ground and that was almost 6 months post contract signing and a good year *before* COVID. Pool ownership is awesome; I have been waiting almost a month to get a circuit board for our heater...Boo! Hiss! Boo!

 

[Music Lover]

Pool prices around here are laughably expensive ($80k+ for a small one) for what amounts to a ridiculously short 5 month season. We casually considered one until we saw the prices and then it was a firm NO. $25k swim spas a couple years ago are now $40k

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Pool prices around here are laughably expensive ($80k+ for a small one) for what amounts to a ridiculously short 5 month season. We casually considered one until we saw the prices and then it was a firm NO. $25k swim spas a couple years ago are now $40k

Nothing cheap about them, that's for sure. Just a big hole in the ground that you throw money into. I would have never had one put in, but it was already here when we bought the house and it would be way, WAY too much of a pain to fill it in with dirt.

 

[old medic]

WOW.... 6 figure kitchen remodel.... We are budgeting to stay under $35K on a total house restoration.... But with COVID hitting prices have gone insane....
Like Bamaman and Music Lover we are DIYers and the cheap progress is slow.
Good luck on the river... I'm in need of some trout therapy myself.

 

[Music Lover]

Nothing cheap about them, that's for sure. Just a big hole in the ground that you throw money into. I would have never had one put in, but it was already here when we bought the house and it would be way, WAY too much of a pain to fill it in with dirt.

I really didn't want a pool so the price came as a bit of a relief as it gave me an "out" if needed but thankfully GF is too frugal to spend that much anyway.

 

[Fermion]

We are still chugging away at our relatively small house (I first posted that we had started about 1 year ago today).

We are putting on siding and will be putting on the roof tiles this summer (it spent the winter under several tarps and we kept it quite dry).

Thank goodness we bought *most* of the plywood we needed. I sheathed the roof in 3/4" CDX instead of 5/8" like most people because I didn't want any sag. I paid about $32 a sheet and now it is $74!!!!

We used 1"1/8" T@G plywood on the floors for a really solid no squeak experience and paid about $50 a sheet for that. I was at Home Depot yesterday and saw it priced at $108!

Somebody is making bank.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I am planning on a new bathroom in my condo but after reading this I intend to wait until winter when things slow down for the workers. Everything else will be done before I move in and this is no rush.

 

[Markola]

I am planning on a new bathroom in my condo but after reading this I intend to wait until winter when things slow down for the workers. Everything else will be done before I move in and this is no rush.

I have to think that supply lines and worker recruitment will catch up to meet demand at some point. I have no idea if it will be by this winter.

 

[Markola]

Threads like this remind me how nice and stress free it is to be a competent DIYer. I shingled my own house and garage (2 days each) with a little help, saved at least $4000 in labour or $1000 a day.



I also did my own (well, 90% of it) major reno. I probably saved $30k by doing most of the work myself over 6 months. I actually could have done it in about 2 months but wasn't in a major hurry and still had a life to live.



And for someone of modest means, $30k saved = a year of expenses.

I can do a lot, including building a deck and fence when this crew is finally out of here. However, this kitchen gut and rebuild project on a 106 year old Craftsman bungalow required foundation stabilization, floor leveling, extensive plumbing and electrical, including all related permits. There was a Bobcat in the yard for a while, for example. It’s really well beyond the legitimate skills of one average handy person like me who wants it done right. No reflection on your skills, but this poor house endured many half-assed “Uncle Frank Hacks”* before we bought it, and which we’ve been fixing ever since. On the bright side: New wine fridge! [emoji898][emoji898]

*One of many examples the prior owners blessed us with: “Gee, I need a shower in the basement. I know! I’ll call Uncle Frank. He can do anything!” Result: A cheesy, all-in-one plastic shower unit from Menard’s in the basement directly underneath an exposed 240 volt conduit.

 

[Surewhitey]

'"POR"?

Point of reference... Maybe made-up by me?

 

[Music Lover]

*One of many examples the prior owners blessed us with: “Gee, I need a shower in the basement. I know! I’ll call Uncle Frank. He can do anything!” Result: A cheesy, all-in-one plastic shower unit from Menard’s in the basement directly underneath an exposed 240 volt conduit.

My friend bought a house years ago...the DIY shower was a cheap all in one plastic unit barely 32" x 32". They were too lazy to break up the concrete floor so they put it on a 2x4 platform and positioned it so that the shower drain sat over the floor drain in the basement

 

[GA_Brown]

We are in the middle of a kitchen renovation which involves removing load bearing walls, new custom cabinets and new appliances. The cabin company has been my hold up, the “designer” doesn’t seem to be very competent, been dealing with her since the end of January but finally got the cabinets ordered and will be installed the end of April. The subs I’m using are fairly responsive, hope to be completed by mid May.

 

[John Galt III]

Is the extra $600 per week in addition to state covid unemployment payments thing still going on? That explains the lack of 'available' workers.

 

[H2ODude]

Haven't read all the posts, and need to get busy....on my remodel

I'm doing all the work on a fairly major rehab of a 400 ft addition we did for MIL who has since passed. Since it is first floor, unlike all other bedrooms in house, decided it would make a great downstairs suite for us. MIL wanted separate LR so cramming a LR, BR, bath and closet in 400 ft was unusable for us. Plumbing under 18" crawlspace, electrical, and down to studs in almost all of half the addition.

As far as the thread subject, yeah buddy. Only thing I have contracted out was drywall, no sane person would do that for what it cost. Guy who does almost all the painting did it the day after I asked because he's mainly a painter, and that day it rained! Meanwhile:

$500 each for two 18x34 fixed windows from Lowe's! Took two months

Still waiting on plumbing fixtures ordered first of February

6 week wait for granite

Have not gotten response from shower glass company, promised a quote a week ago

Have not gotten quote on hardwood for bedroom and my knees are pleading with me to do that soon as I've done it before and remember how painful that was at 58. Now 70.

Tile was absurdly expensive, but largely because of selection we made. Am in middle of installing shower floor and it is a nightmare. Sure was pretty in store but it is a weird pattern of triangular shapes. What is maddening is that the wet saw softens the glue on the mesh and they then tend to fall apart.

Have seen lots going on in our neighborhood, DS lives in slightly more upscale but older (70's) neighborhood. Trucks all OVER the place doing stuff.

 

[Bamaman]

Pools tend to take FOREVER to build and I see it chronicled everyday on a pool forum I am active with. Our neighbor's pool took almost a full year to build once they broke ground and that was almost 6 months post contract signing and a good year *before* COVID. Pool ownership is awesome; I have been waiting almost a month to get a circuit board for our heater...Boo! Hiss! Boo!

We installed a new fiberglass pool last April. Took 2 days to dig the hole and drop the pool in and plumb it.

Then it took a week to get an electrician experienced with pool electrics and bonded grounds to do his job. The concrete work took two days because I added a large deck (instead of doing one of wood.)

I would strongly suggest getting one contractor to handle the whole job--even if it's more expensive.

Come to find out, pool companies often just sell the pool and pumps. Installers go all over the state to install pools, and that's all they do.

Make sure the concrete contractor is a fully trained at laying concrete for swimming pools. Regular concrete contractors don't have the knowledge to do the job. A special bull nose concrete form must be used around the pool, and the pool and concrete must be reinforced with rebar. Joints around pools need special treatment and cracks filled with a self leveling putty that sets up like sililcone. And all pools need automatic pumps installed under the concrete to pump water away from the outside of the pool.

If the contractors would just communicate, a fiberglass pool can be installed in a week.

 

[Markola]

Nothing happened last week, because everyone was waiting for the hardwood floor installers to come back and apply the last water-based top coat. That happened today and it took them less than two hours. It’s impressive stuff, because there is no smell and will be ready to walk on this afternoon.

Next, we have to wait for the electricians to come back and finish their bits.

It’s these waits for materials and then the various installers to fit us in that chews up days and weeks and months.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Is the extra $600 per week in addition to state covid unemployment payments thing still going on? That explains the lack of 'available' workers.

Maybe in some areas, but where I live most of these contractors are on a cash income basis, so they weren't able to get unemployment. For a while, they were a few groups of the folks that *were* still working. I think most of it is people wanting improvements since they are home much more and stimulus payments are great down payments for home improvement projects.

 

[Badger]

Threads like this remind me how nice and stress free it is to be a competent DIYer. I shingled my own house and garage (2 days each) with a little help, saved at least $4000 in labour or $1000 a day.

I also did my own (well, 90% of it) major reno. I probably saved $30k by doing most of the work myself over 6 months. I actually could have done it in about 2 months but wasn't in a major hurry and still had a life to live.

And for someone of modest means, $30k saved = a year of expenses.

It has been many decades as a DIYer for me. it has been a matter of necessity. My first house was so bad that nobody wanted it although it had "good bones". I learned on that house. A few years later I bought my present house. Same story. More sanding hardwood floors, tiling, replacing outlets and switches, fan installations, some brick work, a couple of additions, etc,. My wife and I even built a house in the Ga mountains (took us almost 10 yrs). When she wanted a new kitchen to replace the 1955 kitchen in our permanent home I ripped everything out to the studs and slab then laid the tile, ran additional electrical wiring, and installed the dry wall before I brought in someone to install the cabinets and counter and another to hook up the wiring to the circuit panel. I don't mind designing the wiring plan and running the wires as long as they aren't hot.

I started in my early 20s with no knowledge of any of this. It took a lot of reading, asking questions, and revising plans as I learned but I figured my work would be at least as good as most of the construction crews.
I figure I have saved a couple hundred thousand over the years and have the satisfaction of knowing that I did the designing and construction myself.


Cheers!