Covid Vaccine Distribution

[ivinsfan]

And why is the hospital even under scrutiny, oh my, some 1B's got a vaccine instead of a 1A, in 2020 is this even worth a second glance? Let alone a "news" item.

One would hope the public at large would get less petty in 2020, it seems to have gone the other way.

Hey, Less petty in 2020..it even rhymes..

I'm with Rodi here, the main thing is that no doses get wasted.

 

[gerntz]

It's going to take a while to get the machine running smoothly, the scale is just mammoth.

What, anything less than instant gratification is unacceptable? Come on.

 

[Alan]

I wonder how it was discovered that this strain is more transmissible? The strain was first identified in the UK. In the UK did they discover this strain was more transmissible by contact tracing? Did they find that each person infected with this strain infected more people than other strains? If a person with this strain talks or sneezes or coughs do the droplets carry more virus? Can this strain penetrate masks more easily?

The UK genome centre does an enormous amount of DNA sequencing and discovered that this particular new variant is prevalent in cases in London and the SE of England. These areas have seen an enormous surge in cases in recent weeks compared to other areas of the country and something like 62% of all infections in London were this particular variant compared to 12% of all cases in Yorkshire and Humberside which have a much lower infection rate.

Further research shows that it doesn’t make the patient any sicker than any other variant and there is no evidence that the vaccines (now 3 of them with the approval of the Oxford / Astra Zeneca vaccine in the UK) are any less effective.

 

[ElizabethT]

The aggressive nature of some recent replies is noticeable. It's fair to express concern that the rate of rollout does not appear to match what we've been told would occur, IMO. Expectations were set, and they weren't set by any of us here.

Will we all wait our turn more or less patiently? Of course! But if in the interim we come here to share our concerns, it would be nice not to be mocked.

 

[RetireBy90]

The aggressive nature of some recent replies is noticeable. It's fair to express concern that the rate of rollout does not appear to match what we've been told would occur, IMO. Expectations were set, and they weren't set by any of us here.

Will we all wait our turn more or less patiently? Of course! But if in the interim we come here to share our concerns, it would be nice not to be mocked.

I agree that we don't want to be mocked and should respect the views and concerns of others. However I must admit I'm surprised with the comments about the roll out and what appear to be criticism of those working to get us vaccinated. I'm much more positive on the results so far. I wish that we had meet the 20M applications but we have a tremendous effort underway by a cadre of dedicated workers. I cheer every shot delivered.

Please take the pushback with a grain of salt. Some of those "mocking" are only sharing concerns of their own.

 

[JoeWras]

OK, subscribe me

I jokingly "unsubscribed" from the message board a few days ago over what I perceived to be unreasonable comments that had disparaging words about countries and hinted at politics. OK, maybe I wasn't joking. I was pissed.

But you know what? I get it. People are frustrated. Last night, I unfairly dumped on DW (politics, pandemic, religion, everything) and also mentioned that I threw the Early Retirement board in the river because I perceived everyone was turning into losers there. She kind of picked me up and slapped my face (metaphorically) and told me to man up, get a bleeping grip, stop my bitching, and look at myself in the mirror. At that point, I realized I was doing to her exactly what we really are all doing -- getting frustrated as hell in the middle of a pandemic and venting on each other.

I do hope we keep politics, veiled or otherwise, to a minimum. I wish our leaders would too, after all, the election is over, but oh well. It is what they do.

But for sure, there is criticism to go around. Yet at the same time, after the DW reckoning talk, I realized that there is so much good to look for. This vaccine has been a world effort and really is unprecedented in the time to distribution. Despite the stops and starts, it is unbelievable in speed and scope.

There will be a line. Many of us will be at the back. Here's where we need to do our part. It won't be easy. In WWII, some people got different ration books than others. It wasn't easy.

One last thing that woke me up was this realization: distributing this thing has unprecedented logistical challenges. Maybe it was mentioned here, or maybe I heard it on the radio, but just look at nursing home distribution.

In "normal times", you line up the residents and run them through. You can't do this with this beast! If you line up the residents, and one has Covid, they could potentially give it to the others. Even though they are getting the shot, it won't be effective for some time. So the mere act of lining them up created a mass spreader event just days before they get protection. I didn't think of this. Many people aren't. It is just one example of many as to why this time is different, and why there are glitches to overcome.

So, I'm going to make this a good day and try to think positive. I took ya'll out of the river and you look fine. No scratches. And, you are the finest folks around. Let's celebrate this New Year like never before.

My best, Joe

 

[Aerides]

The plan was to have 20M vaccinated by the end of the year, only 2M have been vaccinated so far. Sounds like operation warp speed needs an engine overhaul.

The head of OWS made the "could have 20m people vaccinated by year end" claims back in November, it was reported widely. I think he probably regrets that now because it wasn't in his span of control. He's a scientist, now the challenge is local logistics. He was likely thinking vaccines shipped=people vaccinated.

In FL, the state has a high level plan, but how to get jabs into arms is being done locally. In my county, they opened a hotline to call for appointments (elderly first). In another counties, they published locations and said show up by 7, first come first served.

So the current issues come down to state and local organization. Plenty of blame to go around but it will get sorted. Frustrating, yet, solvable, yes.

 

[zinger1457]

Some people are never happy We have two workable vaccines, and things are moving along pretty well. In fact it's amazing to me that we have come this far. Maybe you have a better plan?

Agree that the getting the vaccine(s) tested and approved went well but during that time we had ~10 months to prepare/plan for the distribution. No question it's a logistical challenge but of the 20M doses available 11M have been distributed and 2M given. Whatever the actual number of actual doses given will be by the end of the year it will be well under the plan goal of 20M. You must have very low expectations to be 'happy' with that.

 

[gerntz]

"“Aim at the sun and you may not reach it; but your arrow will fly far higher than if you had aimed at an object on a level with yourself.”

I'm quite happy with the aim for the sun approach taken. We're way further along this way than with typical vaccine developments. That some see failure at missing high goals by a bit (weeks?) is human nature I suppose.

 

[GenXguy]

Agree that the getting the vaccine(s) tested and approved went well but during that time we had ~10 months to prepare/plan for the distribution. No question it's a logistical challenge but of the 20M doses available 11M have been distributed and 2M given. Whatever the actual number of actual doses given will be by the end of the year it will be well under the plan goal of 20M. You must have very low expectations to be 'happy' with that.

This^. I agree with that. For ~10 months, at every step of distribution, they've had time to plan.

I read that it will take 10 years to vaccinate everyone at the current rate. Of course, I expect the pace to pick up considerably, but it puts it into perspective just how slow it is for now.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ears-americans-adequately-vaccinated-n1252486

This isn't about vaccine "development".

 

[gerntz]

Agree that the getting the vaccine(s) tested and approved went well but during that time we had ~10 months to prepare/plan for the distribution. No question it's a logistical challenge but of the 20M doses available 11M have been distributed and 2M given. Whatever the actual number of actual doses given will be by the end of the year it will be well under the plan goal of 20M. You must have very low expectations to be 'happy' with that.

No idea where you get 10 months. Vaccines approved in early Dec. would mean we should have been planning in early Feb. We hardly knew what was coming then, much less that we'd have a vaccine and in what form it would be.

I'd say that when the first positive trial results became known (Sept?), planning should have started. I think it's been known the distributions would be rolled out at the state level since around then/Oct. So yes, states with issues could have planned better over 2-3 months. It hasn't helped that apparently a good number of people eligible aren't accepting the vaccine, thus slowing getting enough people to actually be vaccinated. How you can plan to account for that I don't know.

 

[Aerides]

No idea where you get 10 months. Vaccines approved in early Dec. would mean we should have been planning in early Feb.

The first Moderna vaccine was shipped to the NIAID in February. Making them was the easy part, apparently.

But no, to think states would be planning a the rollout since then for this year? nah. Still, it's dispiriting to witness what seems to be on-the-fly preparations just now.

Either way, give it a month, I'm sure things will improve.

 

[JoeWras]

Why do so few people on the internet look on the bright side of things? Is it just our human nature? (I'm including myself, not pointing fingers.)

Cheer up. New year ahead. People are not ignoring the logistic problems. People are hard at work, in the trenches, while we sip coffee and type away observing.

 

[bobbyr]

And why is the hospital even under scrutiny, oh my, some 1B's got a vaccine instead of a 1A, in 2020 is this even worth a second glance? Let alone a "news" item.

One would hope the public at large would get less petty in 2020, it seems to have gone the other way.

Hey, Less petty in 2020..it even rhymes..

I'm with Rodi here, the main thing is that no doses get wasted.

amen

 

[Gumby]

The Pfizer vaccine was approved by the FDA for emergency use late on Friday, December 11th and vaccinations started the next day. Here in Connecticut, as of Monday, December 28th (16 days later, of which 6 were weekend days and one was a major holiday), 36,276 people had been vaccinated (out of a population of ~3.3 million or 1.1%). 2/3 of the nursing home patients will have been vaccinated by the end of this week and the rest are expected by early January.

In light of the circumstances, I am satisfied with the progress to date, and I expect that it will only improve in the days ahead. To get through 100% of the population by the end of June, they'll need to up the rate about 6.9 times from where it has been this past two weeks. I see no reason why that won't be done.

One area where planning could have been a little better by the state is seeking consent to vaccination from the guardians of those nursing home patients who are unable to give their own informed consent. But that's not an issue that will affect the vast majority of people.

 

[Time2]

It was approved Dec 11, this is Dec 30, I know math is hard, but that's only 19 days, jeez, relax a bit.

 

[harllee]

In order not to stress about the vaccine I am just assuming that for myself (healthy 69 year old) I will probably get the vaccine sometime next summer. If I get it earlier, great, but I am shooting for next summer. I do hope my 89 year old mother and my husband with an autoimmune disease get it earlier than next summer--I am hoping maybe sometime in the spring for DM and DH

The one thing I am not going to do--I am not going to try to wrangle my way in front of other people that I think should get the vaccine before me--like school teachers--they should get the vaccine before I do.

 

[ivinsfan]

Agree that the getting the vaccine(s) tested and approved went well but during that time we had ~10 months to prepare/plan for the distribution. No question it's a logistical challenge but of the 20M doses available 11M have been distributed and 2M given. Whatever the actual number of actual doses given will be by the end of the year it will be well under the plan goal of 20M. You must have very low expectations to be 'happy' with that.

I'm not sure that was really a goal of the people that make it,ship it and give it. somebody probably set it. I wonder if the person that set it has any idea of the logistical issues involved.

I have realistic expectations not low ones, but YMMY. But I'm kind of a glass half full person..

 

[ivinsfan]

The aggressive nature of some recent replies is noticeable. It's fair to express concern that the rate of rollout does not appear to match what we've been told would occur, IMO. Expectations were set, and they weren't set by any of us here.

Will we all wait our turn more or less patiently? Of course! But if in the interim we come here to share our concerns, it would be nice not to be mocked.

I pick my battles and the fact that the vaccines are here, are being shipped and distributed, administered in a tiered manner and will continue to be given to everyone free is a win for me. If it's not a win for you, that's OK.

 

[GenXguy]

It was approved Dec 11, this is Dec 30, I know math is hard, but that's only 19 days, jeez, relax a bit.

The planning goes back months, not just since EUA.

 

[Alan]

In England this morning I listened to the health minister being interviewed on the BBC. The interviewer kept trying to press him to name a number that would be a target of folks vaccinated per week, 1 million a week is the figure being bandied about. He wouldn't give a number but repeated his stated target of having everyone over the age of 65 vaccinated by Easter. (April 4) In the 3 weeks or so since the UK has been vaccinating folks it has been about 200k/week, but I'm confident that will ramp up quite quickly. The AstraZeneca vaccine begins shipping this week and vaccinations are due to start on Monday, and it has a much easier logistics chain as it can be stored at room temperature.

I think that the vaccination rate, either here or in the USA, will not be uniform. It will start slow and build momentum as time goes on.

 

[GenXguy]

I pick my battles and the fact that the vaccines are here, are being shipped and distributed, administered in a tiered manner and will continue to be given to everyone free is a win for me. If it's not a win for you, that's OK.

It's a win for me also, because I already got the Moderna vaccine last week simply because I worked for a health care organization, even though I'm working from home most days, am a healthy GenXer, and have no patient contact. So, from a personal aspect, I can't complain to have gotten priority treatment that I didn't feel I deserved.

But I recognize this is going very poorly overall at this point. I'm sure it will get better - can't imagine it would get worse.

 

[ivinsfan]

The planning goes back months, not just since EUA.

I guess really it would have been faster to send all doses of vaccine to a central large city, roll in the military and just grab people and start vaccinating them. It's the quickest way to get large numbers of people done quickly.

The goals of getting large number of people done and getting the most vulnerable done first aren't really in sync.

I know which scenario I vote for.

 

[ivinsfan]

It's a win for me also, because I already got the vaccine simply because I worked for a health care organization, even though I'm working from home, am a healthy GenXer, and have no patient contact. So, I can't complain to have gotten priority treatment that I didn't feel I deserved.

But I recognize this is going very poorly overall at this point. I'm sure it will get better - can't imagine it would get worse.

Going poorly, the actual medical people at your work and even you got protected, you must have a different definition of the word poorly then I do.

 

[ElizabethT]

I pick my battles and the fact that the vaccines are here, are being shipped and distributed, administered in a tiered manner and will continue to be given to everyone free is a win for me. If it's not a win for you, that's OK.

Thank you for so beautifully illustrating my point.