Electromagnetic pulse protecter (EMP) vs surge protector?

[WWDog]

I read on a web site about a whole house EMP protector for the home, car, generator, etc. I currently have surge protectors on everything. Anybody know anything about these devices and if they are what they say? I have exchanged a few emails with one of the reps for this company. They say that a surge protector will not protect from EMP. Particularly, I don't see how it can protect a car since there is no way to ground the car to remove the induced currents through the rubber tires.


https://www.empshield.com/

 

[FI_RElater]

Why

Why do you think you need something for EMP?

If one occurred, or another Carrington Event did (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrington_Event), all the electrical distribution network would be down. No power ... unless you have your own supply via generator (I don't know if EMP would take out a photovoltaic system but I suspect a Carrington Event would).

 

[WWDog]

Got my own supply via generator. Just don't want that to be taken out hence the surge protector. Just want to know if the surge protector is adequate for all cases and it good for all situations.

 

[GrayHare]

Might as well install an asteroid deflector while you're at it. OK, an EMP is more likely, but so much electronics elsewhere would be down that having functional equipment at home would do little good. It would be akin to having the only working telephone. Who ya gonna call? Having said that, I do keep an emergency, solar-powered, multi-band radio in a Faraday cage.

 

[dmpi]

Don't expect these guys to honor their warranty if the thing ends up not working.

 

[SecondAttempt]

If you are worried about an EMP from a nuclear event please don't waste your money even if you are a prepper. Even with your own generator, not having power would be the least of your worries.

But depending on where you live, this device "might" provide some protection from other events. Solar storms and space weather in general are real and can cause damaging surges that might not always be damped by a regular surge suppressor. I regularly monitor space weather because of an interest developed through a job 25 years ago. It is very common (every couple of weeks) to get geomagnetic sudden impulses that can induce voltage and current spikes in distribution lines. Most utilities are well protected against these but not necessarily in rural areas, especially if you are at the end of a transmission spur like I am. Fortunately I live at a low latitude so solar storms and CMEs have less of an impact than if you live up north at high latitudes.

Having personally lost devices to power surges that got through basic surge protectors, I have researched this kind of thing. But I have not bought one. If I were to buy one I would stick with a manufacturer like Eaton that makes industrial grade power equipment. Their whole home surge suppressor costs about half of what the company you found charges for similar protection. Eaton has been around a long time and has an excellent reputation.

 

[FLSUnFIRE]

Cool digital snake oil. Much more humane than the old stuff. I feel like the website hasn't been updated since it was hosted by geocities!



Nothing "in line" is going to protect your electronics if there is an EMP attack; just prepare to suffer and probably die as society collapses. Perhaps you could spend a lot of money to build a huge Faraday cage if you're not too close to the pulse it might help. But then, no grid and you'd have to protect your solar cells and battery bank too. Forget about buying fuel as the infrastructure won't work. Perhaps if you own your own shielded dam or geothermal power plant but once word gets out that you have resources the desperate mobs will overrun you (unless there is a functional gov't/military that will likely commandeer it first). Perhaps you have a giant shielded city-state with lots of provisions and a well-trained and equipped private army to protect it.... then you might have a chance to last a little longer before being overrun.



Recommended reading: One Second After, Alas Babylon, Lucifer's Hammer, The Road

 

[FLSUnFIRE]

For surge protection, I have a whole house suppressor that was installed when I bought but don't know how effective it is. My PC is on a UPS (and I trust them based on confidential studies by really smart people I used to know). I don't have a lot of smart appliances (yet, harder to avoid) and most consumer electronics are practically disposable at this point. Anything I'm really worried about I'd unplug when not in use. If I was worried, I'd probably get my protection through my utility with their supplemental insurance as part of the subscription but it's not worth the $ to me.

 

[frayne]

One werd fer ya, tin foil!

 

[GalaxyBoy]

I’ve worked on building projects that included EMP protection. Believe me, it’s not something a homeowner could practically do. Picture a big Faraday cage around the whole thing, with very special devices for all penetrations including electrical, mechanical, and plumbing. Assume everything outside the protected enclosure is fried.

 

[GrayHare]

To more directly answer your question, ordinary surge protection is insufficient for an EMP. Any EMP that induces an overload in your electricity supply lines is also going to directly affect electronics at your location. As others have said, you'll need to isolate every device you deem important within a Faraday cage. It's hopelessly impractical for most homes, however perhaps you have certain critical devices you could protect via industrial-grade equipment against a smaller, non-society-destroying EMP . Based on history, we know a(nother) big, solar-induced EMP is in Earth's future. Could be 100,000 years away, or one month. If it happens this century, it'll indirectly reduce human population by a significant amount. I don't care to witness it.

 

[Fermion]

The best EMP protector is probably gold, silver, lead, coffee and antibiotics

Maybe toilet paper

 

[foxcreek9]

The best EMP protector is probably gold, silver, lead, coffee and antibiotics

Maybe toilet paper

plus ammo, guns, and enough people for 24 hour guard duty.

 

[skyking1]

One werd fer ya, tin foil!

That sums it up. An EMP does not care about little devices here and there, it goes everywhere.
I had a Cummins powered truck that was EMP-proof but it was too noisy for DW, or conversation. You turned it off at any drive through.

 

[Qs Laptop]

They say that a surge protector will not protect from EMP. Particularly, I don't see how it can protect a car since there is no way to ground the car to remove the induced currents through the rubber tires.

Is this post a joke? Or possibly someone trolling the group?

 

[Texas Proud]

Got my own supply via generator. Just don't want that to be taken out hence the surge protector. Just want to know if the surge protector is adequate for all cases and it good for all situations.

What kind of fuel? And how do you think you will get more fuel?

 

[WWDog]

Thanks for the replies. I looked on line some more and there are a lot of people selling them. I just couldn't see where these devices were any better than the surge protectors I already have. The natural gas generator I have is whole house and should be usable for a while if we have a significant power outage which we have had when an ice storm took out our power for over a week. I live on a hill and my next door neighbor had a direct hit on his satellite dish a few years back. His house caught fire and it took about a year before he could move back. When he did get back, his electrical system was still "not quite right" for many years. He eventually sold the place and moved into an all inclusive retirement home.

 

[Qs Laptop]

Thanks for the replies. I looked on line some more and there are a lot of people selling them. I just couldn't see where these devices were any better than the surge protectors I already have.

An EMP will create a very intense, very rapid electromagnetic power surge that will create very high voltage in electrical conductors. A conventional surge protector will not stand a chance against an EMP. I suppose some very expensive ones might be fast enough to stop the voltage surge. Basically what happens is that a high voltage is created inside integrated circuits that is strong enough to "fry" the circuitry, either the individual transistors and diode inside the IC or the interconnect pathways inside the IC.

This is why a modern automobile will be immobilized by an EMP but a car from the 50's or 60's will still likely operate. The older cars do not have any electronic chips in them. They don't even have electronic ignitions (became popular in the late 60's, early 70's) Instead they have distributors, coils and spark plugs.

 

[WWDog]

I'm still one the fence on getting one that protects against EMP. They are not cheap and it seems that for total protection (house, generator, car) several units would be needed. They aren't cheap and the cost vs probability of needing one is what I am wrestling with on this purchase. One thing that really turned me off is the young lady I was dealing with seemed rather flippant on my questioning if their devices didn't work what would I do next. Her answer was, there is nothing could do then.

 

[mountainsoft]

Sounds like something from the aluminum foil hat department...

If you're really worried about EMP's or other electrical disturbances, you might want to research Faraday cages.

https://www.google.com/search?q=will+a+faraday+cage+protect+from+emp

 

[dmpi]

One interesting area regarding EMP are for safes. Many safe owners opt for a mechanical dial lock because they feel the electronic lock is vulnerable to EMP. I myself prefer a mechanical dial lock because I feel they're more reliable and I don't want to deal with changing the battery. Anyway...the last thing you need after a nuclear attack is to get locked out of your own safe.

 

[Sunset]

An EMP will create a very intense, very rapid electromagnetic power surge that will create very high voltage in electrical conductors. A conventional surge protector will not stand a chance against an EMP. I suppose some very expensive ones might be fast enough to stop the voltage surge. Basically what happens is that a high voltage is created inside integrated circuits that is strong enough to "fry" the circuitry, either the individual transistors and diode inside the IC or the interconnect pathways inside the IC.

This is why a modern automobile will be immobilized by an EMP but a car from the 50's or 60's will still likely operate. The older cars do not have any electronic chips in them. They don't even have electronic ignitions (became popular in the late 60's, early 70's) Instead they have distributors, coils and spark plugs.

This was my understanding. That an EMP will fry a laptop (for example) even if it's not plugged in or on at the time. Due to the generated electricity within the chips from the EMP.

So plugging some device into the laptop/tv/etc won't protect it.

The only protection is a faraday cage, and never leave the door open to the cage.

 

[skyking1]

I have metal roofs on our structures, so we are partway there. This could be a resurgence for lath and plaster with the metal mesh, or stucco. Just get it all bonded together.
Instead of storm shutters you have the bonded metal mesh shutters.
/S

 

[Koolau]

I think it's part of the human condition to desire to survive - no matter the threat. The fact that survival of (for instance) a nuclear attack is 1) unlikely 2) arguably ill advised due to, say starvation, is probably not a major deterrent to the human desire.

Where that leaves us, I don't know. I have more or less put the subject out of my mind - until a thread like this comes along. Thanks so much WWDog.

"I have one word for you Benjamin. Peanut-Butter." (The ultimate survival food.)

 

[skyking1]

I think it's part of the human condition to desire to survive - no matter the threat. The fact that survival of (for instance) a nuclear attack is 1) unlikely 2) arguably ill advised due to, say starvation, is probably not a major deterrent to the human desire.

Where that leaves us, I don't know. I have more or less put the subject out of my mind - until a thread like this comes along. Thanks so much WWDog.

"I have one word for you Benjamin. Peanut-Butter." (The ultimate survival food.)

We took it to the next level when we were tripping around the Big Island.
Goober my friend. Goober, a butter knife from the condo, and a loaf of bread.
If we were having fun and not wanting to stop for a meal the non-drivers would make sammiches.