estate planning notes

[aja8888]

I'm NOT doing a Swedish death cleaning and tossing stuff I want to keep to make life easier for the next generation.

This topic has sparked my curiosity.

 

[WhenIsItTime]

I would like to ask the following questions.

All of my financial assets are at Fidelity, with DW as Primary Beneficiary and Daughter Dearest as Contingent Ben.

DW's financials are also at Fido, in a separate account, with Beneficiaries designated. The good folks at our local Fido Brick & Mortar know both of us personally.

Our Home is titled as JTROS. Both of our car's titles are stored in our strongbox and easily fetched, if needed. My guitar and amp are valued at a couple grand, and could be sold on craigslist.

1 -- Are the online state-specific Wills sufficient for these types of Assets ?

2 -- Approx how much does a lawyer charge for a simple Will these days ?

3 -- Do we have to pay the lawyer every time there's a change in assets ?? New Car ?? Different CD Account at a different vendor ?? How specific do these things have to be ??

I'm SGOI (some guy on internet) offering some food for thought.

A simple will you can probably achieve via an online tool.

Item #2, an experienced lawyer will likely ask a lot of questions and may take you from simple to complex possibly for good reason.
-what if you, DW, and daughter die in same event? Do you care?
-if daughter is married and you and DW die, do you care if daughter's spouse is entitled to 1/2 of benefits?
-do/should you or your DW have medical power of attorney established?
-if you and DW die in same event, is your daughter capable of managing through receiving this gift at once or should if be spread over time and "managed" by a fiduciary (in this case, separate family member/friend is best).

For #3, typically no. You just need to be mindful about how they are titled and establish beneficiaries as you did elsewhere.

 

[FiveDriver]

I'm SGOI (some guy on internet) offering some food for thought.

A simple will you can probably achieve via an online tool.

Item #2, an experienced lawyer will likely ask a lot of questions and may take you from simple to complex possibly for good reason.
-what if you, DW, and daughter die in same event? Do you care?
-if daughter is married and you and DW die, do you care if daughter's spouse is entitled to 1/2 of benefits?
-do/should you or your DW have medical power of attorney established?
-if you and DW die in same event, is your daughter capable of managing through receiving this gift at once or should if be spread over time and "managed" by a fiduciary (in this case, separate family member/friend is best).

For #3, typically no. You just need to be mindful about how they are titled and establish beneficiaries as you did elsewhere.

Thank you Sir. After I typed in my question to the Forum, I asked DW about her thoughts on the matter. As per usual....my smarter and much prettier wife brought the voice of reason to the issue. We'll meet with a local lawyer early next year.

I asked my above questions because last year DW's Mom passed. DW was Exec of MIL's Will, and we were finding that the Exec's power was very limited when dealing with Mom's myriad of different financial firms (the worst of the lot was AIG and their forlorn Annuities Dept). Also, the Power of Attorney that MIL paid a New Jersey Lawyer a few grand for....was not recognized here in South Carolina. We couldn't get the various Asset holders to tell us (as Exec of the Will) who were the designated Beneficiaries.

The local Lawyer who helped us sort out Mom's Will has offered a free consultation. We'll at least here what he has to say.

 

[WhenIsItTime]

Thank you Sir. After I typed in my question to the Forum, I asked DW about her thoughts on the matter. As per usual....my smarter and much prettier wife brought the voice of reason to the issue. We'll meet with a local lawyer early next year.

I asked my above questions because last year DW's Mom passed. DW was Exec of MIL's Will, and we were finding that the Exec's power was very limited when dealing with Mom's myriad of different financial firms (the worst of the lot was AIG and their forlorn Annuities Dept). Also, the Power of Attorney that MIL paid a New Jersey Lawyer a few grand for....was not recognized here in South Carolina. We couldn't get the various Asset holders to tell us (as Exec of the Will) who were the designated Beneficiaries.

The local Lawyer who helped us sort out Mom's Will has offered a free consultation. We'll at least here what he has to say.

I got motivated when my dad died. My parents had a will/etc, but my Mom still paid $2k (in 2002) to get home equity out of probate. Like you describe above, plenty of nuances out there. I'm on my 3rd generation of documents. This last round took us 9 months with the lawyers after adding more details for 2 sons under 18 and cost 50% more than I expected. I'm comfortable with end result, but wouldn't refer lawyers given how long it took. I don't think it will avoid all issues, but puts my wishes in place and if avoids some issues it will pay for itself and ease those who have to deal with it.

 

[pacergal]

Going through a two year probate after my last parent died prompted us to update everything. My folks had a trust, but it did not get completed correctly (not everything got moved to the trust, trust was not titled correctly--and Dad went through an estate lawyer).

We updated wills, trust, POA, healthcare Advanced Directives/HealthcarePOA. I had the attorney put in writing exactly what I needed to do for each thing to be moved to the trust. And I followed up with the estate attorney for review to make sure our trust is funded and complete. I do not want my children to deal with our estate for as long as we dealt with my folks.
We will most likely review again in the future.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

This topic has sparked my curiosity.

The Washington Post had a great article about Swedish death cleaning, the first I had heard of it: Americans are pack rats. Swedes have the solution: ‘Death cleaning.’

 

[W2R]

Approx how much does a lawyer charge for a simple Will these days ?

This month I paid $350 for a very simple will done by an experienced lawyer with a good law degree, here in my New Orleans suburb.

You could probably do better if you shop around, which I didn't do.

You could probably spend more if you acted interested in any of the bells and whistles the lawyer might suggest. I didn't and scowled.

 

[FiveDriver]

This month I paid $350 for a very simple will done by an experienced lawyer with a good law degree, here in my New Orleans suburb.

You could probably do better if you shop around, which I didn't do.

You could probably spend more if you acted interested in any of the bells and whistles the lawyer might suggest. I didn't and scowled.

That's the figure I was looking for. When I sit with our local Lawyer....that's the ballpark I want to play in.

Just out of curiosity, what would trigger a change to an existing Will ??
A new account from, say...Treasury Direct, or some such ?
Added CD's under existing Navy Fed account ??

Does local Lawyer charge for updating an existing Will ??

 

[PatrickA5]

Question: For those of you with multiple children, have you made just one of them executor or have you put them all as co-executors?

I need to change my Will to add my son as an executor. Trying to figure out if I want to just replace him for my daughter or have both as co-executors. I have an older daughter that "doesn't do finances" that I'm for sure not including as co-exectutor. In addition to not liking anything financial, she lives 10 hours away and would make any co-signing problematic.

 

[PatrickA5]

That's the figure I was looking for. When I sit with our local Lawyer....that's the ballpark I want to play in.

Just out of curiosity, what would trigger a change to an existing Will ??
A new account from, say...Treasury Direct, or some such ?
Added CD's under existing Navy Fed account ??

Does local Lawyer charge for updating an existing Will ??

Those kind of things should have beneficiaries /TOD/POD. No reason to list them in a will.

 

[Koolau]

Going through a two year probate after my last parent died prompted us to update everything. My folks had a trust, but it did not get completed correctly (not everything got moved to the trust, trust was not titled correctly--and Dad went through an estate lawyer).

We updated wills, trust, POA, healthcare Advanced Directives/HealthcarePOA. I had the attorney put in writing exactly what I needed to do for each thing to be moved to the trust. And I followed up with the estate attorney for review to make sure our trust is funded and complete. I do not want my children to deal with our estate for as long as we dealt with my folks.
We will most likely review again in the future.

Sounds like there was malpractice on the part of your parents' lawyer. Probably no possibility of retrieving damages since, well, you know, you'd need another lawyer.

 

[socca]

Question: For those of you with multiple children, have you made just one of them executor or have you put them all as co-executors?

My dad's revocable trust gave me as successor trustee the power to add a co-trustee. After my dad died the lawyer advising the estate strongly recommended that I NOT add a sibling as co-trustee due to the co-signing hassles that could result. This was good advice IMO.

 

[socca]

So do you think funding the Trust really saved you any time (over probate)?

I have no idea, but it seems like not involving the court in estate settlement is a good thing if you can pull it off.

On the financial front, despite avoiding probate the legal fees associated with estate settlement were higher than the accounting fees (perhaps the lawyer billing at $400 / hour vs. the accounting firm billing at $150 / hour had something to do with it ). IMO the accounting firm provided much more value to the estate than the lawyer - go figure. I fired the lawyer's accountant and hired a firm to prepare the estate tax return, and am so glad that I did.

 

[FiveDriver]

Those kind of things should have beneficiaries /TOD/POD. No reason to list them in a will.

Of course -- all my financials have designated beneficiaries.

And if that eliminates the need to list Assets in a Will.....why do I need a Will.

I don't object to spending $400 to make it all Legal-like. But there's more than a few stories about legal foulups on this thread. Forcing Trusts where none are needed, pushing their in-house Estate Plans. We ran into this last year with MIL's New Jersey Will.

 

[Sunset]

That's the figure I was looking for. When I sit with our local Lawyer....that's the ballpark I want to play in.

Just out of curiosity, what would trigger a change to an existing Will ??
A new account from, say...Treasury Direct, or some such ?
Added CD's under existing Navy Fed account ??

Does local Lawyer charge for updating an existing Will ??

Changing an account or bank does not mean a Will update, because the Will does not normally list accounts, just talks about All the money not caring where it comes from.

Yes lawyers charge for updating a Will. You will need to do it only in rare circumstances, like all your heirs die, or you want a newborn to inherit something.

It's important to know, POD/TOD (set beneficiaries) on your bank and brokerage accounts will supersede a Will. So if you have POD/TOD on all your bank accounts and brokerage accounts, (some banks want them on each CD) then none of that money is handled by the WILL.

A person that has $2 Million in 3 bank accounts all with POD/TOD and has nothing else of value, doesn't really need a Will.

 

[Sunset]

Question: For those of you with multiple children, have you made just one of them executor or have you put them all as co-executors?

I need to change my Will to add my son as an executor. Trying to figure out if I want to just replace him for my daughter or have both as co-executors. I have an older daughter that "doesn't do finances" that I'm for sure not including as co-exectutor. In addition to not liking anything financial, she lives 10 hours away and would make any co-signing problematic.

I just name 1 as executor, and if that person doesn't want to do it, a 2nd choice child , and then a 3rd choice.

Make your Will with contingent executors and you don't have to change it unless all of them die.

If the first 2 don't want to bother, then they can live with however well the 3rd choice does the job.

 

[MarieIG]

I just name 1 as executor, and if that person doesn't want to do it, a 2nd choice child , and then a 3rd choice.

Make your Will with contingent executors and you don't have to change it unless all of them die.

If the first 2 don't want to bother, then they can live with however well the 3rd choice does the job.

I agree with this. Patrick - it sounds as if naming DD as co-executrix would just give DS more work.

 

[PatrickA5]

I agree with this. Patrick - it sounds as if naming DD as co-executrix would just give DS more work.

Sounds like I need to have a discussion with DS and DD and see what they think. Both are capable. DS finished college a year ago with both a finance and accounting degree, so he might be the logical choice. Our current wills have DD as executor, but that was written years ago when DS was young.

I guess we'll take this opportunity to look over all of our estate plans and see if anything else needs to be updated.

 

[Koolau]

Sounds like I need to have a discussion with DS and DD and see what they think. Both are capable. DS finished college a year ago with both a finance and accounting degree, so he might be the logical choice. Our current wills have DD as executor, but that was written years ago when DS was young.

I guess we'll take this opportunity to look over all of our estate plans and see if anything else needs to be updated.

I think basic capability is less important than trustworthiness. Do you trust a potential executor to fulfill YOUR desires after you are gone. We have an ideal person in mind as an executor (older, smart, business woman, familiar with our situation so theoretically ideal.) In "living matters" from minding our car to emptying our fridge during our 8-month absence each year, she has failed miserably. I don't trust her to do what I want when I'm alive, so...

YMMV

 

[aja8888]

I think basic capability is less important than trustworthiness. Do you trust a potential executor to fulfill YOUR desires after you are gone. We have an ideal person in mind as an executor (older, smart, business woman, familiar with our situation so theoretically ideal.) In "living matters" from minding our car to emptying our fridge during our 8-month absence each year, she has failed miserably. I don't trust her to do what I want when I'm alive, so...

YMMV

Usually, after you are dead, you have no idea if your desires were fulfilled. Ya gotta go with the choice you make.

 

[Koolau]

Usually, after you are dead, you have no idea if your desires were fulfilled. Ya gotta go with the choice you make.

All true, but you gotta take your best shot before you go, I always say.

 

[Goonie]

About 9 years ago my Mom wanted to update her estate paperwork, so we talked to the attorney that had prepared her then current paperwork, which basically consisted of a will and a living will. He had retired and had turned his practice over to a trusted colleague, so I contacted him and set up an appointment for Mom. He set her up with a revocable living trust, a pour over will, a living will, and POAs for health, property, and finance. She named me as successor trustee of the RLT, and as executor of her estate. She had already named me as beneficiary on her annuities and life insurance policies, and I was joint owner on all of her financial accounts. When she passed away this past October, having all of her estate paperwork up to date and organized made settling her estate very quick and easy.

Very shortly after her passing, I went to the same attorney and set up (and funded) a revocable living trust, a pour over will, a living will, and POAs for health, property, and finance. My cousin is successor trustee of the RLT, executor of my estate, beneficiary on my financial accounts, and has access to my lockbox.

I still need to sit down in the near future with pen and notebook, and write down a list of all of my accounts, financial and otherwise, as well as log-in info for everything, contact info for everything, and also the details of my funeral and burial wishes, which are all pre-planned & pre-paid.

I want to make settling my estate as easy for my cousin, as my Mom made it for me to settle hers.

 

[ncbill]

About 9 years ago my Mom wanted to update her estate paperwork, so we talked to the attorney that had prepared her then current paperwork, which basically consisted of a will and a living will. He had retired and had turned his practice over to a trusted colleague, so I contacted him and set up an appointment for Mom. He set her up with a revocable living trust, a pour over will, a living will, and POAs for health, property, and finance. She named me as successor trustee of the RLT, and as executor of her estate. She had already named me as beneficiary on her annuities and life insurance policies, and I was joint owner on all of her financial accounts. When she passed away this past October, having all of her estate paperwork up to date and organized made settling her estate very quick and easy.

Very shortly after her passing, I went to the same attorney and set up (and funded) a revocable living trust, a pour over will, a living will, and POAs for health, property, and finance. My cousin is successor trustee of the RLT, executor of my estate, beneficiary on my financial accounts, and has access to my lockbox.

I still need to sit down in the near future with pen and notebook, and write down a list of all of my accounts, financial and otherwise, as well as log-in info for everything, contact info for everything, and also the details of my funeral and burial wishes, which are all pre-planned & pre-paid.

I want to make settling my estate as easy for my cousin, as my Mom made it for me to settle hers.

Yep, did the same for the last two relatives I buried.

Only major difference was since they were already sick to the point I had to manage their day-to-day affairs I had myself named co-trustee instead of successor.

Plan to do as you did in 2023 for my spouse & I.

 

[pb4uski]

.... A person that has $2 Million in 3 bank accounts all with POD/TOD and has nothing else of value, doesn't really need a Will.

A good description of our estate plan.

If only one of us dies, everything goes to surviving spouse through either joint ownership or beneficiary designations, so no probate needed.

If we die multaneously, 93.5% of our assets are in accounts with beneficiary designations and both real properties are Lady Bird deeds with both our kids as 50/50 beneficiaries.

2.5% are vehicles and 4% are individual IBonds so the kids will have to deal with those... but the 4% in individual IBond accounts will likely be gone in a year.

 

[aja8888]

Now that my DW passed away in December, I need to review all of my "stuff" and make sure DD is the named person to handle my affairs when I check out.

Good thread.