EV battery discussion

Chuckanut

Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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Here is a discussion of the various types of batteries being used or being considered for use in EV automobiles. It compares various lithium batteries and solid state batteries in terms of storage, safety and what it takes to actually produce and then use them in EVs.

https://twit.tv/shows/ask-the-tech-guys/episodes/1989?autostart=false

The battery discussion begins at about 1 hour and 53 minutes.
 
it looks like we will see significant improvements in battery technology in the last half of this decade.

From today’s WSJ

https://wallstreetjournal-ny.newsmemory.com/?publink=22eaf20ab_134d241

There’s a paywall so I will toss in a few quotes.

In the next five years, significant upgrades to the batteries in electric vehicles should finally hit the market. In the works for decades, these changes are likely to mean that by 2030, gas vehicles will cost more than their electric equivalents; some EVs will charge as quickly as filling up at a gas station; and super long-range EVs will make the phrase “range anxiety” seem quaint.
Almost all of these coming developments are upgrades to the same tried-and-true lithium batteries that others have promised to disrupt. This gives them a huge advantage: They can be manufactured in existing facilities, and fit into existing supply chains.
Bigger jumps in the energy density of batteries are rare. But BMW recently announced that it will begin selling the first vehicle using the company’s new platform for EVs, which it calls “Neue Klasse,” in 2025. These vehicles will have a new kind of battery which will hold more than 20% more energy than the previous type, and charging speed and range will also improve by up to 30%, says a BMW spokesman.

What makes possible these improvements are a new, cylindrical shape for the battery cells, and tweaks to their chemistry.
 
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it looks like we will see significant improvements in battery technology in the last half of this decade.

From today’s WSJ
In the next five years, significant upgrades to the batteries in electric vehicles should finally hit the market. In the works for decades, these changes are likely to mean that by 2030, gas vehicles will cost more than their electric equivalents; some EVs will charge as quickly as filling up at a gas station;

These 'fast charge' statements always make me cringe. They don't provide the needed context for the general public, who is likely unaware that the battery is not the only limiting factor in charge times.

The batteries can't break the laws of physics, to charge 2x faster, the charging station needs to provide 2x the power (for half the time). And slightly more, as losses will likely be higher when you deliver higher power.


For rough numbers, I found that Tesla's Supercharger will provide 200 miles in 15 minutes, while an ICE/hybrid can be filled for > 300 miles in less than 5 minutes. So to match the 'fill' times of an ICE/hybrid, the EV needs to charge ~ 4~5x faster (and still probably won't get you 300 miles in that time, the 'top off' of those extra miles in an EV is slower).

It's not trivial to deliver 4~5x the current. That requires larger conductors, more heat is generated, etc.

Bottom line, it's just not that simple. And before I get this come-back, sure, if the 'fill up' is combined with a meal or bathroom break, not a big deal. But with the ICE/hybrid, you still have the option of a fast stop if you need/want it. And for home charging, current charge rates are fine, no 'breakthroughs' needed, and homes wouldn't have the power for it anyhow.

-ERD50
 
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