Meditation Resolution

[Sojourner]

There are probably plenty of us here on ER that are regular meditators, and there are probably even more that aren't. There are not many actions I can take, personally, that would make the world a better place, but I was thinking that if even one person was able to understand themselves better through meditation, that would improve the world, however slightly. So I figured I'd write this post.

Thanks, @Sengsational, for this post. I am a huge Sam Harris fan and have been a subscriber to his podcast (and, indirectly, to his meditation app) for many years. I tried using his app to get into the practice of mindfulness several years ago, but it didn't stick. Your post is the reminder and the motivation I need to give it another try. Thanks again!

 

[sengsational]

That's a lot of time everyday without relent to just zone out and think/feel/contemplate/touch/experience....

I'm thinking your idea about what it means to meditate could use some tweaking. And it's pretty common that people have many different ideas about what it means to meditate. But the oldest tradition is an act of non-doing. Just recognizing what's already happening, and making no attempt to change it. It's confusing because directing ones attention to the breath, for instance, is "doing something", so how is that the act of not doing? Well, the idea is to recognize when you are lost in thought, and the breath is a convenient object of attention. But really, anything you experience can be the subject of your attention, sensations, sounds, even thoughts, as long as you keep recognizing you've been lost in thought and return to the current moment observation. Tim Ferris said that returning to the current moment after being lost in thought is "the lift", making an analogy with weight lifting.

I'm afraid I might be one of those that isn't wired for meditation because I have severe tinnitus. There is no "quiet place" for me. It's not masked by a fan or white noise either.

The idea that meditation requires quiet is common. I also have tinnitus, and often use it as the subject of meditation. If the condition has a negative valance it might be challenging to accept it, but it's what's happening, and above all, meditation is being open to precisely what is happening right now. I reminded myself that every molecule in the universe is exactly how it has to be at this instant. Not easy with pain or a medical condition, but possible. You can worry about the condition later. Right now, it is what it is. And if you can't find equinimity with it, then explore the feeling of resistance to it. Not "thinking about it", but watching thoughts about it come and go. See how long you can concentrate on your tinnitus before getting lost in some other thoughts, then return to you tinnitus.

The idea behind meditation is, as others have mentioned, exercising your mind so that during every-day interactions with the world, the strength of your mind that you cultivated during meditation can be leveraged to make for a better relationship with the world.

 

[braumeister]

I'm thinking your idea about what it means to meditate could use some tweaking.

That is so common. As many know, meditation is not at all intuitive, and not at all what most people think it is. Not an easy concept to grasp, which is why having some sort of good instruction (a "guru" for example) is so valuable.

I've been doing it off and on for decades, and can vouch for the value, but it's clear just from the few comments here that it's not a well understood activity.

So thanks for raising it.

 

[O2Bfree]

My brain is mostly fat :

"An average adult brain weighs 3 pounds and is composed of 60% fat, with water, protein, carbohydrates, and salt accounting for the other 40%. The brain is an organ made up of neural tissue. It is not a muscle."

So mom was right when she called us fat heads!

 

[O2Bfree]

Which doesn't exist with severe tinnitus. The noise is always attached. There is no quiet place to do meditation or even sleep.

Not sure I expressed myself very well there. The attachment is the attention given to a sensation and the subsequent chain of thoughts that's usually generated, with the thought impulse itself being another type of sensation.

Without that attention, the mind is still and can experience the "silence" that's so often mentioned in literature about meditation. So it's not a literal silence, but a "seeing beyond" the limitations of our senses.

I have pulsatile tinnitus that's pretty much constant, and have done dozens of three- and seven-day meditation retreats, plus spent a couple months at a Zen monastery in Japan. I've gotten a ways into this training and so far everything that all the masters have written about matches up with the experiences I've had, including this thing about silence.

 

[O2Bfree]

I didn't see anyone mention suffering, but you did three time! There are different roots of suffering. I don't think meditation is going to be practical or help much with all of them. 5 hours of meditation to address anxiety disorder sounds like a tremendous investment of time and isn't practical, for example, as I mentioned earlier.

If you read enough about meditation, you'll run across the word "suffering" a lot. That's a biggie in the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism.

What I've experienced in my practice is that the root of all suffering is attachment. From that root sprouts many branches of different kinds of attachment, but the root is that initial impulse to grasp and cling. Realizing that doesn't mean I'm entirely free from suffering because my practice runs a little hot and cold so I'm a bit of a backslider. But that truth about suffering is clear to me.

Regarding the time commitment, it can take a lot of meditation to experience freedom from an anxiety disorder or other harmful thought pattern. But once you see the path to that freedom, you never forget it and it gets easier and easier to reach. The big challenge is applying what you learn consistently in daily life. People who can do that may not need to practice seated meditation.

I've posted about this here in the past, and been criticized for it, but the fact is that most people who meditate do not do it intently enough or for long enough to reach certain initial stages where they start realizing new truths about how their minds work. And as Sengsational alluded to in the original post, people who only read about meditation learn about paradoxes and issues regarding what we call the self that make them uncomfortable. It's natural for people to criticize what they haven't experienced but are trying to understand with words and concepts.

As Shakyamuni Buddha said, "See for yourself."

 

[O2Bfree]

Tim Ferris said that returning to the current moment after being lost in thought is "the lift", making an analogy with weight lifting.

That's a great analogy I'd love to share with others. A monk I know points out that every time you have to make a mental move to return to the moment, you lose energy. So yeah, it really is like weight lifting! But when you can stay in the moment, you gain energy. This is one of the reasons that meditation retreats often involve schedules with reduced sleep. That helps force you into staying in the moment because if you don't, the fatigue can get pretty uncomfortable.

I reminded myself that every molecule in the universe is exactly how it has to be at this instant. Not easy with pain or a medical condition, but possible. You can worry about the condition later.

There's a Zen proverb about this: "No snowflake ever falls in the wrong place." How could it be otherwise?

 

[Gumby]

I have read this thread with interest. My principal question right now is how would a person know that they need to meditate? Or not?

 

[O2Bfree]

I have read this thread with interest. My principal question right now is how would a person know that they need to meditate? Or not?

How does a person know when to eat?

I'd say that everyone could benefit from meditation, but not everyone is surrounded by the conditions, including the condition of their mind, that are conducive to the practice.

Then there are people who's minds are naturally calm and clear yet vigorously engaged in the moment. Maybe they even experience samadhi on a regular basis, but don't realize what they've got. They could benefit too, because that state of mind can be expanded, but maybe they're not going to be motivated because they're enjoying their lives so much already. But that state of mind can be lost too, if life gets painful enough.

I think it's like that old saying about when the student is ready, the teacher appears, where the teacher could be a person, a book, an event, or a particular set of conditions or experiences.

 

[sengsational]

In my case, I felt the need to explore. So it was a natural consequence of curiosity.

Sam Harris mentions in the opening chapter of his book "Waking Up" that he went on a solo camping event to cap his participation in "Outward Bound". He says he wrote nothing more profound in his journal than what kind of hamburger he would order when he got back to civilization (apparently there was no food, so a fasting camping event). Other campers had profound mental realizations recorded in their journals, using the solitude in nature to explore inwardly. Harris is also famous for admitting that he might not have ever explored inwardly without psychedelics; he often says this is when he realized there was a "there there" (something interesting to discover about one's own mind). Psychedelics are viewed as a short cut, and also a "cheat" to make discoveries, whereas meditation may or may not produce any insight, even with sustained practice.

As with any exercise, it's often the case that it's done to make you feel better or healthier. The result is that you can climb the stairs without feeling out of breath, but you don't set-out in keeping fit to avoid 30 seconds of harder breathing at the top of the steps. It's probably somewhat analogous with exercising the mind.

 

[O2Bfree]

In my case, I felt the need to explore. So it was a natural consequence of curiosity.

Same here. My parents sent us to Christian Science Sunday school, where I learned that the church's founder, Mary Baker Eddy, had said "All is Mind and its infinite manifestations" and claimed that matter as we experience it is a sort of illusion. That stuck with me, and I often wondered what is matter, really? What is it that experiences the sensations of matter? Why are things dualistic—positive/negative, male/female, inside/outside? Those questions naturally led to an exploration of philosophy and eventually Buddhism.

Harris is also famous for admitting that he might not have ever explored inwardly without psychedelics; he often says this is when he realized there was a "there there" (something interesting to discover about one's own mind). Psychedelics are viewed as a short cut, and also a "cheat" to make discoveries, whereas meditation may or may not produce any insight, even with sustained practice.

Did you ever read Ouspensky's "A New Model of the Universe"? Using an undisclosed drug, he came to a realization that's common among meditators:

And in this case I saw from the very beginning that all that we half-consciously construct with regard to the unknown is completely and utterly wrong. The unknown is unlike anything that we can suppose about it. The complete unexpectedness of everything that is met with in these experiences, from great to small, makes the description of them difficult. First of all, everything is unified, everything is linked together, everything is explained by something else and in its turn explains another thing. There is nothing separate, that is, nothing that can be named or described separately. In order to describe the first impressions, the first sensations, it is necessary to describe all at once. The new world with which one comes into contact has no sides, so that it is impossible to describe first one side and then the other. All of it is visible at once at every point; but how in fact to describe anything in these conditions—that question I could not answer.

He is describing the Buddhist tenet that no thing has an abiding essence.

But yeah, it's like taking a helicopter to the top of a mountain to enjoy the view—you come down, then you don't know how to get back there by yourself.

 

[Gumby]

Isn't it possible just to let the unknown be unknown?

 

[braumeister]

Isn't it possible just to let the unknown be unknown?

Cue Donald Rumsfeld!

 

[O2Bfree]

Isn't it possible just to let the unknown be unknown?

The point is to experience each moment with fewer and fewer of the filters that make things known and familiar to us. In this way, each moment has a quality of invigorating freshness, like the new sense of life you feel when you see an amazing view for the very first time. For that moment, your mind isn't interpreting anything, it is at rest as you stand in awe and wonder. You still have the data in your brain that can tell you you're seeing a mountain with trees and snow and clouds and sun, but for that brief moment none of those labels and the many memories associated with them are accessed. That is a small taste of the unknown, and it's something people go to great lengths to experience, whether it be through travel, scientific discovery, new cars, sports, entertainment, drugs, or whatever.

Of course that moment is fleeting. After a couple seconds, we engage our brains and start recalling memories related to what we're experiencing. This is our usual state of mind. You'd be surprised at how much energy we waste pointlessly accessing unnecessary information in our brains that frequently turns out to be innacurate anyway. There are also layers of subconscious interpretation that cloud our minds and can stress us out and drag us down in ways we don't even realize. Meditation can help us learn how to stop that pointless activity, giving us a fresh viewpoint on life every moment.

 

[sengsational]

Did you ever read Ouspensky's "A New Model of the Universe"?

I haven't, but the quote sounded like some things I've heard. It's not really possible to put it into words, and if you do, it sounds like a Hallmark card, LOL!

Isn't it possible just to let the unknown be unknown?

Certainly. I'd say the overwhelming majority are good with that approach, and live fine lives. And there's even a step beyond Donald's "unknown unknowns", because he was talking about worldly things that have answers that are just not accessible.


There are probably people who really "know thyself" as a natural by-product of who they are...their "nature" or their "wiring". I'd call those people "sages", I suppose. If you're not a sage, you'll probably encounter things in life that upset you. It is in those situations where putting a little space between stimulus and response can be the most valuable. So it's not just exploring the unknown for the sake of it, it's exploring the unknown to get insight into how your mind operates, and putting that to work in your daily life to leverage what only humans have.

 

[Koolau]

Which doesn't exist with severe tinnitus. The noise is always attached. There is no quiet place to do meditation or even sleep.

Yeah, I have to be very intent on any kind of thinking - call it prayer, meditation, or just plain thinking. Tinnitus is a real challenge during "quiet times." I've noticed that tinnitus doesn't improve over time - it gets worse. I've thought of getting a white noise generator for just such quiet times.

 

[GenXguy]

Yeah, I have to be very intent on any kind of thinking - call it prayer, meditation, or just plain thinking. Tinnitus is a real challenge during "quiet times." I've noticed that tinnitus doesn't improve over time - it gets worse. I've thought of getting a white noise generator for just such quiet times.

A white noise generator will help if you have mild tinnitus, but I have a couple different ones, as well as air filters and different fans, and I can hear my tinnitus over them easily. Some high frequency sounds such as a youtube video of a field of crickets/cicadas does partial masking of my highest frequency and most annoying tinnitus sounds to allow me to sleep some. But only the shower really masks it completely.

 

[Koolau]

I am generally shocked and dismayed by the lack of interest most people show in understanding how their own minds work.

I won't argue with you about your strongly held beliefs on this subject. Lots of people get through life without a lot of intensive meditation or attempting to understand their minds. It seems to w*rk for them. I'm more in-between.

I suspect that those needing such deeper understanding might benefit from counseling with a trusted professional. Most of us get by without that. YMMV

 

[O2Bfree]

I won't argue with you about your strongly held beliefs on this subject. Lots of people get through life without a lot of intensive meditation or attempting to understand their minds. It seems to w*rk for them. I'm more in-between.

I suspect that those needing such deeper understanding might benefit from counseling with a trusted professional. Most of us get by without that. YMMV

Is something just a belief when you've verified for yourself that it's true and it works, and there are many others you know who've had the same experience, plus countless books written over thousands of years that say the same thing?

Needing a deeper understanding is certainly some people's reaction to having a mental illness. But by no means a large percentage. When I look at the people in my meditation group, I see a high percentage of doctors, therapists, engineers, professional artists and musicians, lawyers, and other successful professionals—certainly not a group needing professional help. If anything, they're the ones who do the helping. Though as with any cross-section of people, a few kooks have passed through, and one person I know has a diagnosed mental illness. There's a financial advisor in the mix, too.

But of course lots of people get through life just fine without a deeper understanding of the mind. Lots of people get through life just fine without studying medicine or astrophysics or the culinary arts or a hundred other disciplines they're not curious about. What's wrong or unhealthy about studying the workings of the mind if that's what you're curious about? It's certainly been getting a lot more attention from the scientific community lately, as better tools for studying the human brain have been developed.

 

[Gumby]

I do not doubt for a minute that there are many people who find meditation to be helpful and valuable, and I would never say someone should not do it. I have read what everyone has written in this thread, but I honestly still do not understand what problem you are trying to solve. If I knew that, I could consider whether I have that problem and could benefit from meditation myself.

 

[O2Bfree]

I do not doubt for a minute that there are many people who find meditation to be helpful and valuable, and I would never say someone should not do it. I have read what everyone has written in this thread, but I honestly still do not understand what problem you are trying to solve. If I knew that, I could consider whether I have that problem and could benefit from meditation myself.

Basically, it's the problem of how human happiness depends on conditions.

 

[sengsational]

My mother in law said her eyes were fine, and didn't want cataract surgery. She was fine. There was simply no problem to be solved. Then some arm twisting ensued and she got the clear lenses installed. For the next two months (at least), you couldn't be with her for 2 minutes without her telling you how she was so wrong about delaying her "clear seeing". Too bad meditation isn't a quick thing like replacing lenses.

 

[Gumby]

I appreciate you guys trying. Maybe I am just particularly dense. I'll wander off now and leave you alone. Thanks.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

I'm curious.
For the masters here, what is your heart rate when meditating? Later in the day?
For comparison, my normal resting heart rate is low to mid forties, upper thirties when very fit.
My systolic BP is low hundreds, 102-110 when rested and relaxed.
And these biomarkers are durable.
After a long hard workout, my state of mental clarity and equanimity carries through to the next day.

 

[Koolau]

Basically, it's the problem of how human happiness depends on conditions.

Human happiness depends much more on your attitude than your conditions IMHO. YMMV