Fasting for health

[haha]

I read a piece by a Toronto nephrologist named Jason Fung. He claims diabetes and obesity are both curable diseases. He certainly is well credentialed (UCLA fellowship for his nephrology specialty.) He also comes across very positively in my eyes. He presents mountains of data.

The secret he says is getting blood insulin levels down. I have posted before that I am so called "prediabetic", Though the doc now days that my A1c is normal levels, I can look at charts and it is perhaps at best high normal. Obese I am not, at 148# at 5'9".

Anyway, I am thinking of trying fasting to see if I can get to an A1c in high 4s to low 5s from current mid 5s. I have at times touched 5.2, but haven't held this.

I also have nothing against losing a bit of fat. As a man gets older, he greatly improves his appearance if he is slim. Being slim contributes to the gestalt of "young and healthy"

Does anyone here, of either sex, have experience with fasting? I am not afraid of a bit of discomfort.

Ha

 

[GrayHare]

Be aware that some % of people experience significant trouble when ending a fast, such as nausea, vomiting, and worse, so be prepared to seek medical care in the event it happens to you.

 

[iac1003]

You should not do a prolonged fast except under a physician's supervision. There is a center called True North in California where they help with supervised fasts and Joel Fuhrman MD has written a book, some time ago, on fasting for health. I can go a day on just water but I just like eating too much to go further than that. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[braumeister]

When I was younger, I used to occasionally do an odd sort of fast from time to time, just to get my weight down quickly.

I took a quart of V-8 juice, added a can of Campbell's beef consommé, and shook it up to mix it well. That was my only nourishment for 24 hours. I did this 2-3 times a week. Never any ill effects, and not difficult at all.

Other than that, no experience.

 

[haha]

When I was younger, I used to occasionally do an odd sort of fast from time to time, just to get my weight down quickly.

I took a quart of V-8 juice, added a can of Campbell's beef consommé, and shook it up to mix it well. That was my only nourishment for 24 hours. I did this 2-3 times a week. Never any ill effects, and not difficult at all.

Other than that, no experience.

Was this to make weight for some sport? Sounds quite doable.

I once fasted 4 days because I had some kind of gastric upset and no insurance. I asked my wife to take me to the hospital if I was screaming, otherwise to wait. I was fine after the 4 days.

Ha

 

[6miths]

I'm not sure why you would want to do this. You are neither obese nor diabetic. I do fast for a period at least once a day. Usually at night while I'm asleep, I find it easier to keep my will up during that time.

 

[braumeister]

Was this to make weight for some sport? Sounds quite doable.

I used to be a very athletic type (running, skiing, mountain climbing, etc.). I just wanted to keep my weight down because it meant fewer pounds to carry around with me. Nothing special. And yes, it was quite easy to do. It was also effective, but that assumes two big variables -- I was much younger, and much more active.

 

[harley]

I'm not sure why you would want to do this. You are neither obese nor diabetic. I do fast for a period at least once a day. Usually at night while I'm asleep, I find it easier to keep my will up during that time.

 

[RAE]

I have not tried intermittent fasting myself, but Mercola, Jaminet, and others think it may benefit some people. Here is an article by Mercola that goes into some detail:

How Intermittent Fasting Stacks Up

On the other hand, Chris Kresser and a few others present some cautions with regard to intermittent fasting. Apparently, in some people it can lead to elevated cortisol, which can raise blood sugar:

To (intermittent) fast or not to fast; that is the question

So, you might want to do more reading about this before deciding to try it. In my case, I was borderline pre-diabetic at one point in my life also, but after changing my diet to more of a real food, paleo-type diet, and increasing my exercise level, my blood sugar normalized and I haven't had any issues with blood sugar after that. One big key for me was getting rid of almost all processed foods (especially those with hidden sugar) and eating mostly whole, unprocessed foods.

 

[GreenER]

I have been doing intermittent fasting 2 days a week since January. I eat a normal healthy breakfast and lunch on those days (approximately 300 calories per meal) and then fast from about 1 or 2 pm until the next morning 7 or 8 am. I haven't found it difficult at all. I drink plenty of water or herbal tea in the afternoon and early evening. I am flexible about what days I do this depending on what else is scheduled. There have been a couple of weeks that I didn't fast at all as we were traveling. I have dropped about 10 pounds over this time period without doing any other "dieting". I found the biggest hurdle was psychological and that dinner every night is a habit more than a necessity. I have been kind of enjoying the freedom of not being obligated to have dinner every night. It would be super hard for me to go without breakfast however as that is the most important meal for my mental outlook and sense of well being.

 

[donheff]

Thanks Ha. Fung has an interesting blog. I added it to my RSS feed.

 

[SumDay]

Michael Mosley's Fast Diet is an interesting concept. I did it a couple of years ago, and am considering taking it up again.

Welcome to 5:2 intermittent fasting » The Fast Diet

I saw this on PBS, which really got me interested.

Michael Mosley - Eat Fast Live Longer - Video Dailymotion

I stopped due to some health issues DH was having, but am thinking it's time to pick it back up. It was really pretty painless and actually worked. And I was able to do what I wanted on weekends without feeling guilty.

 

[Totoro]

I've been toying around with short fasts alot.

What I frequently did/do is fast for 24 hours. Basically skip breakfast and lunch. Sometimes I do it because I just don't feel hungry or am busily "engrossed" in an activity (like reading a book).

Last few weeks I've been taking it a step further for weight loss. First switched to low carb high fat mid protein, then took out the fat and go protein only for a few days, then skipped another day of eating entirely.

What it did was quite interesting: taking out carbs removes blood fluctuations and after a few days (two or three) I stopped feeling hungry as long as I ate sufficient protein (>60g per day, with lean meat that's <500 kcal). Also got a steady energy boost.

The last day I didn't eat at all, and wasn't hungry either. I did get an increase in heart rate (+10 - 20 bpm or so) from day 3 without carbs (and a big calorie deficit) onwards.

Longest I ever went without food is three days (just water). Also stopped feeling hungry on day 3.

My biggest takeaway from all this (limited) experience is that keeping at least some amount of lean protein going is probably better than complete fast. The calorie deficit difference is marginal, and it's easier to keep up.

Constipation can be an issue though. And obviously, I'm not an nutritional specialist and my body workings may be different from others.

 

[athena53]

I've been doing 5:2 fasting for about the last 5 years. I dropped 17 lbs. and kept them off.


Generally, on Tuesdays and Thursdays I eat almost nothing but fruits and vegetables, with a cup of Greek yogurt mixed with honey at night so I don't wake up hungry. I didn't give up my nightly glass of wine, either. My total calorie intake on those days is probably about 1,000. I typically work out between 1 and 1.5 hours per day so I don't restrict intake to the 500 calorie level as many people do.


The additional benefit is that I've learned to ignore minor hunger pangs and tend to go for things like kimchee, baby carrots, etc. when I get the munchies, even on the other days of the week, so it's changed my eating habits for the better. Bloodwork #s are fine.

 

[haha]

I appreciate all these posts. Lots of fasting experience here!

Ha

 

[Sue]

Several months ago I watched the PBS/BBC documentary cited above by SumDay. In the show Dr. Mosley visits with several biologists who study longevity. When I looked into the scientific publications by two of them, Valter Longo and Mark Mattson, I learned that there are a lot health benefits from intermittent fasting.

Valter Longo on IGF-1 & Intermittent Fasting.

Mark Mattson on Intermittent Fasting and Health.

Mark Mattson’s Ted Talk: Fasting is good for the brain
Based on this evidence I decided to do Mosley’s 5:2 diet. It turned out to be easier than I thought it would be. I managed to lose some weight and potentially protect my brain from Alzheimer’s.

 

[6miths]

I was confused watching that as it didn't seem to be up to the usual TED talk standard. Turns out that it is a TEDx talk which is not the same thing. I'm glad that it wasn't a TED talk as it was the least compelling 'TED' talk that I have ever seen. Granted the the fellow has some credentials but where is the evidence? 'My daughter is in a better mood during cross-country season'! Really? Why not present what evidence there is in humans. It's pretty much a given that eating a bit less, and exercising the body and brain a bit more would be a good idea. But being underweight may not be the solution. Or maybe it is but I'm sure we could come up with some better evidence in one direction or another. There are massive cohort studies out there - let's look.

 

[donheff]

I was confused watching that as it didn't seem to be up to the usual TED talk standard. Turns out that it is a TEDx talk which is not the same thing. I'm glad that it wasn't a TED talk as it was the least compelling 'TED' talk that I have ever seen.

I have reacted the same way to TEDx talks - they water down the brand. Most TED talks are very good, TEDx mostly so so.

 

[haha]

Several months ago I watched the PBS/BBC documentary cited above by SumDay. In the show Dr. Mosley visits with several biologists who study longevity. When I looked into the scientific publications by two of them, Valter Longo and Mark Mattson, I learned that there are a lot health benefits from intermittent fasting.

Based on this evidence I decided to do Mosley’s 5:2 diet. It turned out to be easier than I thought it would be. I managed to lose some weight and potentially protect my brain from Alzheimer’s.

Sue, thank you for posting these 3 items. These people obviously are serious, accomplished researchers, no matter what one thinks of the Ted talk. Which I found no problem with anyway.

I have only two issues with the intermittent fasting. One, it is not exactly pleasant, at least for me. This week I tried fasting light, the 8 hour daily eating zone. I don't own a scale so I don't know if I lost any weight, but I did take up a notch on my belt, a belt I have worn for about 20 years. But I am going to have to get pretty convinced to do this much, because as I said, it is not fun. Another issue is do I really want to stretch my stomach enough to let me load a day's calories into one or two meals?

And two, how well does it match with a physically active way of life? Gary Taubes has presented a lot of data that shows that when people restrict calories, they also restrict activity. Their energy just falls.

I do think that this is a potentially wonderful health action, and might be very helpful toward a long and happy retirement.

Ha

 

[audreyh1]

When you fast you lose muscle as well as fat. You have to take steps to avoid losing muscle.

 

[athena53]

And two, how well does it match with a physically active way of life? Gary Taubes has presented a lot of data that shows that when people restrict calories, they also restrict activity. Their energy just falls.

The way I do it (about 1,000 calories on "fast" days) doesn't interfere with my workouts at all. I can still work out in the gym for over an hour or bicycle 10+ miles. I do my longer rides (18 miles, or the 35-mile charity rides) on non-fast days and make sure that I stay hydrated and well-nourished. (That's easiest on the local "Tour de BBQ" ride although I'm going to have to be careful on the "Tour de Bier" next month!)

 

[sengsational]

When you fast you lose muscle as well as fat. You have to take steps to avoid losing muscle.

True that. If I were going to fast, I'd have a "down day" with respect to any exercise at all. Right before and after exercise, I'd make sure I had some protein to keep from losing muscle.

I would say that some kind of fasting is "natural", meaning that when homo sapiens were "growing up", a good adaptation would have been to be able to get-by with very little food for a few days. What is certainly NOT natural is to have refined carbs and sugar every single day when you wake up!

For me, general calorie restriction is more comfortable than fasting, and I think it has a similar effect. I'll fast (sort of by accident) for 18 or 20 hours sometimes. Since I generally don't eat any refined carbs*, it's not that hard (I'm off of the blood sugar roller coaster).

One thing I'd say, though, is that it has to be "easy" and/or very rewarding, or you won't continue to practice that style of eating (for the rest of your life). Willpower only lasts so long. Anything one does temporarily to lose weight or attain any other goal is just asking for a yo-yo effect (going back to where you were once you stop practicing the new behavior).

*except beer

 

[Sue]

I have only two issues with the intermittent fasting. One, it is not exactly pleasant, at least for me. This week I tried fasting light, the 8 hour daily eating zone. I don't own a scale so I don't know if I lost any weight, but I did take up a notch on my belt, a belt I have worn for about 20 years. But I am going to have to get pretty convinced to do this much, because as I said, it is not fun. Another issue is do I really want to stretch my stomach enough to let me load a day's calories into one or two meals?

And two, how well does it match with a physically active way of life? Gary Taubes has presented a lot of data that shows that when people restrict calories, they also restrict activity. Their energy just falls.

Ha

HaHa, I'm glad you found those links helpful.

While I didn't have a significant problem adjusting to a 5:2 diet, my DH did. When he would start a fast day, he would become cranky, irritable and unsettled. He found that this unpleasant reaction to fasting went away after a month or so. Shifting from eating three meals a day to going for short periods without eating is a big change. Mattson says that for some people it takes 4-6 weeks to adjust to intermittent fasting.

When DH and I are fasting, we can do just about everything that we would do on a normal day with no problem. Drive the car, do shopping, cook, clean, garden, go for walks. The only thing that we do not do is strenuous exercise, like running several miles, climbing a mountain, a vigorous cardio workout at the gym. According to Mattson, you shouldn't do strenuous exercise while fasting. In his experience, fasting people who try a strenuous activity, just fall over.

Currently DH is using the 5:2 diet to lose weight. I don't need to lose any weight, so I make a conscientious effort to consume an additional 400-500 calories per day (when not fasting) so that I maintain my weight. I don't have any experience in how one would deal with consuming a day's worth of calories in a short time period. Another benefit is that we are now spending less money on food!

The question of whether intermittent fasting results in muscle loss is quite pertinent. According to Mosely's 5:2 diet book, calorie restriction or dieting (eating 30% fewer calories every day for a prolonged period) causes the loss of both muscle mass and fat. In contrast, intermittent fasting primarily results in fat loss. I have also read this elsewhere, but I don't have the references at my finger tips.

It is amazing all the health benefits one can gain from a simple (and free) act like fasting.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

In contrast, intermittent fasting primarily results in fat loss. I have also read this elsewhere, but I don't have the references at my finger tips.

The work of Dr Horne is often cited -

This recent study also confirmed earlier findings about the effects of fasting on human growth hormone (HGH), a metabolic protein. HGH works to protect lean muscle and metabolic balance, a response triggered and accelerated by fasting. During the 24-hour fasting periods, HGH increased an average of 1,300 percent in women, and nearly 2,000 percent in men.

Link to his 2011 study- New Research Finds Routine Periodic Fasting is Good for Your Health, and Your Heart - Intermountain Healthcare - Salt Lake City, Utah

And the 2014 follow up study - Fasting Reduces Cholesterol Levels in Prediabetic People Over Extended Period of Time, New Research Finds - Intermountain Healthcare - Salt Lake City, Utah

 

[Leonidas]

When you fast you lose muscle as well as fat. You have to take steps to avoid losing muscle.

Even better, why not just add some muscle?

Muscles are good at soaking up glucose, especially well-exercised muscle. Insulin levels go up when your body is trying to remove glucose from the blood and store it in appropriate cells. The body will increase insulin production when it has a difficult time storing glucose (too much intake of glucose producing food, cells not being receptive to insulin's message to store glucose, or a combination of the two).

I was a full blown diabetic at 12.7 A1c. Eating low carb and lots of long, slow, steady-state cardio brought it down to 7 in about six weeks (with the help of medication). There was some intermittent fasting in there as well, usually on the days I did a lot of cardio. I continued to improve doing that - got off the mediation - but I plateaued with an A1c in the high 5's. The really good changes happened when I started doing a lot of weight training and changed to high-intensity-interval-training for most of my cardio. My A1c dropped and has stayed in the low 5's (5.2 last time) without any medication. I generally eat 4-5 times a day using a low-carb diet rich in green veggies with a lot of lean meat (and some bacon too).

I don't have a problem doing some fasting, and I think it helped a little in the early stages of trying to fix my diabetes, but adding muscle and dropping body fat by means of high intensity athletic training with an emphasis on weight training while eating low-carb is what got me to where I wanted to be.

It's been a while since I've done my research, but I recall concerns about fasting actually causing an increase in insulin production and body fat because your metabolism is responding to it's perception that you're living in a time of famine.

My takeaway from my research and experience is that it's better to reduce your body's need to create more insulin by reducing the load (less glucose produced from food), and making your body more insulin sensitive by increasing it's ability to store glucose efficiently (reduce fat and add muscle mass through some cardio and strength training.