FDA Approves Booster Shot for People with Weakened Immune Systems

Yes, clearly we are still learning so much, and missing so much info. When a bunch of folks think they’ve gotten most of it figured out, something major happens to change most of it. It’s just the way it is.
 
If typical vaccines should be "farther" apart, why does everyone seem to get the Shingrix booster at 2 months and not 6?

(I have just had my first one and have been searching for why 2 or 6 months would be better, can't find anything).
 
Didn't the UK space their first and second doses apart? Not so much because of knowledge but more of a gamble since doses weren't plentiful at the time. They might have gambled correctly.

The UK did the 3 month spacing to get as many people with 1 dose as quickly as possible because by the time vaccines were authorised in December the Alpha variant had taken off and by January was tearing through the population and filling up hospitals which was when they changed to a 3 month gap. Those folks who had their first dose in December and already had an appointment for their 2nd stayed on the original short gap.

Boosters for the over 50s start this coming week and the doses will now either be Pfizer or a half dose of Moderna. I don’t know the criteria for choosing between them and it may just be a supply issue.

Boosters will be at least 6 months after the 2nd dose which would mean most folks over 50 having 3 doses over a period of at least 9 months.
 
If typical vaccines should be "farther" apart, why does everyone seem to get the Shingrix booster at 2 months and not 6?

(I have just had my first one and have been searching for why 2 or 6 months would be better, can't find anything).
That's a good question and, for the answer, you might have to dig into the original research that was used to establish the recommended interval. I suspect that there may be a slight advantage to waiting longer in terms of ultimate protection but you'd have to balance that against the risk of only being partially protected against a shingles outbreak for an additional four months.
 
If typical vaccines should be "farther" apart, why does everyone seem to get the Shingrix booster at 2 months and not 6?

(I have just had my first one and have been searching for why 2 or 6 months would be better, can't find anything).

When I got the Shingrix shots there was a shortage of the vaccines. I had to hunt and hunt to get the second dose, I think I finally got it around 4 months. So at the time I got Shingrix I think people just got the booster whenever they could find it.
 
To put the number of shots in perspective, here is the recommendation for children's polio shots from the CDC. These are not booster shots as I understand them, but a part of the initial doses to build up resistance to the disease.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/public/index.html

Children in the United States should get inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) to protect against polio, or poliomyelitis. They should get four doses total, with one dose at each of the following ages. Note that it is a total of four shots spread out over four to six years.


  • 2 months old
  • 4 months old
  • 6 through 18 months old
  • 4 through 6 years old
 
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The UK did the 3 month spacing to get as many people with 1 dose as quickly as possible because by the time vaccines were authorised in December the Alpha variant had taken off and by January was tearing through the population and filling up hospitals which was when they changed to a 3 month gap. Those folks who had their first dose in December and already had an appointment for their 2nd stayed on the original short gap.

.

Thanks for putting the UK's decision into perspective given what was happening then..
 
If typical vaccines should be "farther" apart, why does everyone seem to get the Shingrix booster at 2 months and not 6?

(I have just had my first one and have been searching for why 2 or 6 months would be better, can't find anything).

It completely depends on the disease and the vaccine.

They had time to figure out a good range for that one.
 
The UK did the 3 month spacing to get as many people with 1 dose as quickly as possible because by the time vaccines were authorised in December the Alpha variant had taken off and by January was tearing through the population and filling up hospitals which was when they changed to a 3 month gap. Those folks who had their first dose in December and already had an appointment for their 2nd stayed on the original short gap.
Yes, exactly! Each country was trying to get shots in arms the best way they could figure given their supply.
 
Yeah!! Whoo Hoo

CDC says I don't need a booster!! Look it took everything for me to get 1 shot Janssen so the probability that I'd get a booster was about as likely that I'd get the flu shot
 
.... if I wind up in the hospital, there's a real chance that I could be triaged into palliative care due to overburdened healthcare resources.

For heavens sake's come on now..


There is a real possibility of this. Here is WA state hospitals are overrun with patients from Idaho. Idaho hospitals are full and they are rationing care to those they believe most likely to survive (regardless of vaxxed state). That means the really sick and those of advanced age or underlying conditions go to the back of the line.

In WA, even though hospitals are not yet 'officially' taking this same tack, it is in fact going on. Beds are full, local health authorities are pleading with people not to do anything that might results in an accident (like gutter cleaning) and routine care and surgeries are being cancelled for lack of resources. 2 weeks ago I had an annual exam at a nearby medical center cancelled for this reason.

In my rural area patients who go to ERs with a serious cardiac issue or major trauma are routinely transported to Seattle, Tacoma or other larger centers. For the past 3 weeks or so these facilities have been on bypass - not accepting these emergency cases. The overload is real and people are dying, waiting for care.

When boosters are available I'll be in line.
 
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There is a real possibility of this. Here is WA state hospitals are overrun with patients from Idaho. Idaho hospitals are full and they are rationing care to those they believe most likely to survive (regardless of vaxxed state). That means the really sick and those of advanced age or underlying conditions go to the back of the line.

In WA, even though hospitals are not yet 'officially' taking this same tack, it is in fact going on. Beds are full, local health authorities are pleading with people not to do anything that might results in an accident (like gutter cleaning) and routine care and surgeries are being cancelled for lack of resources. 2 weeks ago I had an annual exam at a nearby medical center cancelled for this reason.

In my rural area patients who go to ERs with a serious cardiac issue or major trauma are routinely transported to Seattle, Tacoma or other larger centers. For the past 3 weeks or so these facilities have been on bypass - not accepting these emergency cases. The overload is real and people are dying, waiting for care.

When boosters are available I'll be in line.




Certainly are issues with care but my comment was more to the fact if you were 70 they would write you off. I don't think that's true. I'm curious about the most likely to survive comment. From past Covid spikes it was the opposite they would tell you stay home until the wheels came off and then come back.


If you are saying that after a prolonged time on a vent they are more likely to press for vent removal, that would be a change.


I would say things are changing daily.
 
Certainly are issues with care but my comment was more to the fact if you were 70 they would write you off. I don't think that's true. I'm curious about the most likely to survive comment. From past Covid spikes it was the opposite they would tell you stay home until the wheels came off and then come back.

If you are saying that after a prolonged time on a vent they are more likely to press for vent removal, that would be a change.

I'm saying that if the hospital is full, you will wait in the ER lobby or in your car or on a stretcher in the hall, regardless of you symptoms or age. If there is another patient waiting as well, the one most likely to survive will be admitted first. This is a change from past process. If no beds are available you may wait for a day and you may die if you have some grave issue (like a cardiac problem).

In my area we now have cardiac emergency patients who cannot get admitted for cath procedures that are life saving. Hospitals are full and staff are overwhelmed.

Interestingly in my area, health care providers were the first vaccinated and all had Pfizer jabs - last January. The booster is welcome news for them as they are at greatest risk (seeing covid patients daily) and have the oldest vax dates.
 
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I'm saying that if the hospital is full, you will wait in the ER lobby or in your car or on a stretcher in the hall, regardless of you symptoms or age. If there is another patient waiting as well, the one most likely to survive will be admitted first. This is a change from past process. If no beds are available you may wait for a day and you may die if you have some grave issue (like a cardiac problem).

In my area we now have cardiac emergency patients who cannot get admitted for cath procedures that are life saving. Hospitals are full and staff are overwhelmed.

Interestingly in my area, health care providers who were the first vaccinated all had Pfizer jabs and most were vaxxed last January. The booster is welcome news for them as they are at greatest risk (seeing covid patients daily) and have the oldest vax dates.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but this is the exact opposite of medical triage since the beginning of time. ...this sounds like dysfunctional hospital management ..hopefully things improve soon. I'd like to be more informed about this situation, could you recommend a regional news source for me to read. You are NW based right?



It's an awful situation
 
I'm not trying to be a jerk but this is the exact opposite of medical triage since the beginning of time. ...this sounds like dysfunctional hospital management ..hopefully things improve soon. I'd like to be more informed about this situation, could you recommend a regional news source for me to read. You are NW based right?



It's an awful situation

Links about Idaho:

https://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/...ewide-due-surge-covid-19-patients-requiring-0

https://apnews.com/article/health-p...ndemic-idaho-a0729894b42af1c3dadeccaffeabea0c

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/coronavirus/article253990133.html

Two links about how this affects WA state

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/13/us/coronavirus-hospitals-washington-idaho.html

https://www.king5.com/article/news/...tals/281-e40b932b-aadb-4b1b-a7cd-d66f46700ea3
 
It’s called crisis standard of care

I'm not trying to be a jerk but this is the exact opposite of medical triage since the beginning of time. ...this sounds like dysfunctional hospital management ..hopefully things improve soon. I'd like to be more informed about this situation, could you recommend a regional news source for me to read. You are NW based right?



It's an awful situation

This is exactly what medical triage in LIMITED resources is all about. With limited resources, those that are most likely to survive get treated first. If you have all the resources you need, you take the cases in order of most severe to least severe. But the point is, many places are out of resources. Providence Medical Center in Alaska, as well as the smaller rural hospital I work at, are now operating under what is called Crisis Standard of care. Which means rationing resources because we don’t have enough beds, nurses, respiratory therapists etc to handle our patient load. And the larger facilities (like Providence) which we normally ship patients to are not accepting ours.

It is not about dysfunctional hospital management.
 

Just from the first link above:

When crisis standards of care are in effect, people who need medical care may get care that is different from what they expect. For example, patients admitted to the hospital may find that hospital beds are not available or are in repurposed rooms (such as a conference room) or that needed equipment is not available. They may have to wait for a bed to open, or be moved to another hospital in or out of state that has the resources they need. Or they might not be prioritized for the limited resources that are available. In other words, someone who is otherwise healthy and would recover more rapidly may get treated or have access to a ventilator before someone who is not likely to recover.
 
Alaska is in a bad spot as they have no out of state options..


I'm seeing a lot of language saying this "may happen " which would be awful. Nothing indicating its actually happening in a,widespread area. Let's hope it stays that way

Pay walls can really make it difficult to get a complete picture about this. Last year most publishers didn't pay wall Covid stories but pay walls are back
 
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Alaska is in a bad spot as they have no out of state options..

Actually, we ship to Washington state for certain medical situations that cannot be handled in Alaska - especially in the pediatric world. And also on the rare occasion when Alaska is full and a bed is available in Washington. But Washington is getting Idaho’s overflow which means they are at risk of running out of resources as well.

It is definitely a mess.
 
Actually, we ship to Washington state for certain medical situations that cannot be handled in Alaska - especially in the pediatric world. And also on the rare occasion when Alaska is full and a bed is available in Washington. But Washington is getting Idaho’s overflow which means they are at risk of running out of resources as well.

It is definitely a mess.

Not as easy as driving to the next state though. We have a Canadian friend who talked about crossing the border to Detroit for an emergency heart procedure ...he said the ambulance just blew through..
 
Yesterday an elderly lady in my mother's independent living building (in a CCRC) had stroke like symptoms. The ambulance was called and she was taken to the nearest hospital emergency room. There was no room for her there and no room in any nearby hospitals so the ambulance brought her back to the CCRC. The nurse on duty at the CCRC did not know what to do and contacted the lady's doctor. Her family later came and got her. Not sure of the outcome. What an awful time we are living in.
 
^wow!

Yes, it’s really happening.

Our country COVID prevalence has dropped and is quite low compared to most of the state, but our hospitals are packed full of people from neighboring counties and rest of the state. More hospitals here, and few hospitals in more rural counties, plus bigger outbreaks in other parts of the state.
 
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...this sounds like dysfunctional hospital management ..

This has nothing to do with dysfunctional hospital management. This has been happening for a long time in this pandemic in many pockets of the world. Whoever hospitals think can be discharged sooner has a good chance of getting the bed. When you have a limited number of beds, ventilators, ECMO machines, you don't want those resources to be held up for months and months when you have several dozens of patients that need to be treated. It's a stark reality people are facing. Hospital staff in Ontario in the third wave had to make that decision for a short while, and I'm sure it wasn't easy.
 
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This has nothing to do with dysfunctional hospital management. This has been happening for a long time in this pandemic in many pockets of the world. I'm surprised that you didn't know. Whoever hospitals think can be discharged sooner has a good chance of getting the bed. When you have a limited number of beds, ventilators, ECMO machines, you don't want those resources to be held up for months and months. It's a stark reality people are facing right now. Our hospital staff in Ontario in the third wave had to make that decision for a short while, and I'm sure it wasn't easy.


What ever happened about the field hospitals (overflow areas that would care for only Covid patients) they were setting up early on like Spring of 2020....


seems they could be used a few places about now.



I think vent use has tapered off dramatically since the start of all this..
 
What ever happened about the field hospitals (overflow areas that would care for only Covid patients) they were setting up early on like Spring of 2020....


seems they could be used a few places about now.



I think vent use has tapered off dramatically since the start of all this..

Remember, you can set up as many beds as you want, but you also need equipment as well as staff. I heard that in Alberta, one nurse who usually takes care of something like 4 ventilator patients is taking care of multiple that.
 

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