GM eliminating Apple CarPlay in future EV’s

[COcheesehead]

Maybe a 25 year old car could be considered analog. Nothing in the last 20 years has been un-computerized.

Really? I am shocked at what is included in cars in the last 4-5 years.

 

[JoeWras]

Not in GM's Infotainment systems of that era. Our model year is the 2015, and GM didn't fix this or even allow Apple Car Play or Android Auto until 2018 with the Enclave. Pick up an aftermarket model by Kenwood or Pioneer, and the feature you speak of is available. But then there are trade-offs, some from a safety standpoint, with the interface with the vehicle's rear camera and sensor detection systems.

That sucks.

On my Subaru, I have an old lifetime-subscription XM radio plugged into AUX. The radio has a "line level out" so I can equalize. Additionally, the aftermarket JBL radio I installed has some settings to mess with the bluetooth levels such as independently controlling the volume of the phone ringer and phone, etc.

My Subbie doesn't have a rear view camera so swapping out the standard radio to the JBL was easy.

----

This all has me thinking: looks like the era of putting after-market radios in cars is gone, gone, dead, dead, and done and dusted. It's over.

 

[dmpi]

That sucks.


This all has me thinking: looks like the era of putting after-market radios in cars is gone, gone, dead, dead, and done and dusted. It's over.

Remember when people would actually steal your car radio and speakers? That happen to me once in the 80s.

 

[JoeWras]

Remember when people would actually steal your car radio and speakers? That happen to me once in the 80s.

Yep. I had a Blaupunkt that had a detachable face. I'd pop that off and stuff it in my pocket. What a pain.

(It was a cheap Blaupunkt. I didn't have the "quadraphonic Blaupunkt" that 'Meat' had in the movie Bull Durham. Great scene, one of my favorites, starts at 63 seconds in.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EroyjPcw3sg?t=63

 

[explanade]

After market car stereos died when cassette and then CD sales plummeted.

Now you can play music on your phone or stream from Spotify or whatever.

 

[ERD50]

.... Our model year is the 2015, and GM didn't fix this or even allow Apple Car Play or Android Auto until 2018 with the Enclave. ...

I have a 2017 Encore (a much lower end model than the Enclave), and it has Android Auto (wired only though), and I assume Apple Car Play (haven't tried it).

Not sure if I can equalize audio between different sources, I don't spend enough time in the car to fiddle with this stuff too much. I do have a flash drive connected, and use that sometimes and never noticed any big difference. I had a free trial of XM for 3 months, used it a few times, didn't notice a volume shift.

.... I am almost willing to try a solution that would allow me to use either my USB thumb drives or Bluetooth with a smartphone, and transmit that through an FM station. Besides sounding kludgy, there are audio limitations to that option. That said, SXM's audio quality leaves something to be desired at times. Highly compressed music.

Do you have a USB port? I have my flash drive plugged in through that w/o using Android Auto - I do need to select "Media" from the audio sources. I think there is also an AUX in port, a headphone cable from the phone to that would be better than an FM thingie.


UPDATE:

https://my.gm.ca/buick/en/content/d...2015_Buick_Enclave_2nd_Print_Manual_en_CA.pdf

Using the USB Port

The USB port can control a USB storage device or an iPod using the radio buttons and knobs.

USB Supported Devices:

. USB Flash Drive... etc

-ERD50

 

[statsman]

I have a 2017 Encore (a much lower end model than the Enclave), and it has Android Auto (wired only though), and I assume Apple Car Play (haven't tried it).

Certain Buick models received various Infotainment features before the others. The Regal tended to be one of the earlier models. With the Enclave, they held off adding the above features until they released their refresh of the Enclave in 2018. The Buick Encore, including its Infotainment system, was refreshed in 2017. Congrats on your fortunate timing.

Do you have a USB port? I have my flash drive plugged in through that w/o using Android Auto - I do need to select "Media" from the audio sources. I think there is also an AUX in port, a headphone cable from the phone to that would be better than an FM thingie.

Yes, I can use a flash drive, but it has the same volume issues as the Bluetooth sources. In fact, it was the first option I tried, and it was also the source that helped blow out one of the vehicle's speakers. I have also tried this with an iPod and an older iPhone that worked with the standard USB connection (unlike the more current USB-C connection).

And before anyone asks, I have created MP3s with our own music and have maximized the volume levels for each song individually (using ffmpeg), adjusting them to just short of distorting. I can't make them any louder, nor would I want to.

As far as using the AUX input is concerned, iPhones no longer have headphone jacks. I also don't want to be fiddling with the output device since I would no longer have control over switching/pausing songs with the vehicle's audio controls.

 

[Sunset]

.....

And don’t get me started on the scam that is built in GPS.

What scam ?

I've found built in GPS on my phone really handy and accurate enough for knowing where I'm located in various countries.

Please educate us..

 

[bloom2708]

Dropping Apple CarPlay seems sub optimal. Don't understand it unless Google is paying them big dollars to go with Android Auto.

Chasing the EV unicorn could result in the bankruptcy of some old car companies.

Wouldn't it be funny if Ford and GM bet the farm on the EV movement and Chrysler/Jeep is the only one that survives? hmmm.

Ford is going up market with EV. GM going down market. Both may fail miserably.

 

[braumeister]

A couple of years ago, Volvo changed from their own infotainment system (Sensus) which offered Carplay (plug-in, not wireless) to a Google-built Android system (AAOS) which also offers Carplay as an option. So it doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

[harley]

What scam ?

I've found built in GPS on my phone really handy and accurate enough for knowing where I'm located in various countries.

Please educate us..

Not my comment, but I consider the built in car GPS systems scams too. IME, most car nav systems have crappy user interfaces. But the big scam was the incredibly expensive map updates. There was no reason for that, especially once car phone nav systems became available. And if you didn't get the update and lived in an area with a lot of new development, the nav system became worth a lot less.

 

[JoeWras]

Not my comment, but I consider the built in car GPS systems scams too. IME, most car nav systems have crappy user interfaces. But the big scam was the incredibly expensive map updates. There was no reason for that, especially once car phone nav systems became available. And if you didn't get the update and lived in an area with a lot of new development, the nav system became worth a lot less.

I use the nav system on my 2011 (which apparently was last updated in 2014), and I'm always driving through fields. I live in an area with a lot of growth and new roads.

The other thing is that it has traffic and incident update through the FM RDS radio system. It is very coarse, slow and incomplete compared to the new modern internet based systems.

 

[Midpack]

Not my comment, but I consider the built in car GPS systems scams too. IME, most car nav systems have crappy user interfaces. But the big scam was the incredibly expensive map updates. There was no reason for that, especially once car phone nav systems became available. And if you didn't get the update and lived in an area with a lot of new development, the nav system became worth a lot less.

In car GPS systems started to appear in cars in the 90's, even earlier for some makes/models. Smartphones with maps weren't in wide use until almost 2010. So while in car GPS systems are inferior/redundant now, they're a legacy system that automakers will milk as long as customers will pay for them, and updates. Most cars come with 3-5 years of free map updates now, though they're always out of date even when introduced. I don't know anyone who pays for in car GPS map updates anymore (I never did). There are still luddites who cling to legacy systems, probably more here than the mainstream...

 

[O2Bfree]

As a non-Apple user this gives me a good reason to consider GM in the future.

But I'm not really interested in the religious battle of operating systems.

The issue with car audio and navigation systems is that these things go obsolete like all modern electronics. The ideal solution would be a far more modular design so that you could use whatever is available today, and easily swap it out when that stuff is history.

So true, and no different than the Thomas Guide—some things never change!

 

[MichaelB]

Not my comment, but I consider the built in car GPS systems scams too. IME, most car nav systems have crappy user interfaces. But the big scam was the incredibly expensive map updates. There was no reason for that, especially once car phone nav systems became available. And if you didn't get the update and lived in an area with a lot of new development, the nav system became worth a lot less.

In addition to costly updates for maps, the real time traffic alerts and routing in the built-in version in the car are inferior to Google maps.

 

[ERD50]

... So while in car GPS systems are inferior/redundant now, they're a legacy system that automakers will milk as long as customers will pay for them, ... ..

Yes, but in most cases, you don't really have a choice - the GPS comes included with some other option package with things I do want. If I could à la carte delete the GPS and save even a few bucks, I would.

As far as updates, I laugh when I get an email saying I can get a map update at the discounted price of $149 (or whatever) - act now!

I'm half tempted to call them and ask if the update includes a functional voice recognition system, or even a better manual entry system for addresses, points-of-interest (POI), etc.

The voice recognition is a literal joke - if we're not in a hurry, I might try it, just to laugh about how bad it is. And I may ask for direction based on the POI menu, maybe restaurants specifically, and I KNOW that place is in their restaurant list, so why can't it figure it out from a pretty limited data set - I'm not asking for any place world-wide, just from POI in that town, or 'nearby'. It doesn't even need to figure out what I said, all it has to do is a best-match algorithm. If there's only 5 restaurants that start with an "M" sound, at least show those 5 in matched order. Is that so hard?

And the manual entry isn't much better - if you have a number and a street, you better also know if it includes a N/S/E/W prefix, or the manual system will just say I didn't find 123 Main street in that town. But enter 123 N Main, and it comes up.

On the flip side, I'm astounded at how good the Google Maps voice recognition is. Blows me away. I'm sure Apple is as good/better. I don't know if non-GM systems are as bad as GMs voice recognition. It's boggling just how awful it is.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

I'll add that I thought the great voice recognition was dependent on some super-powerful "cloud" computers doing the heavy analysis, and then just sending the answer back to the phone. But I've put it in Airplane Mode, and it works just as well.

Though I do think it gets analyzed in the cloud, to improve the data set over time, but that's a bit separate from it just working stand-alone. I really am impressed.

-ERD50

 

[Midpack]

The voice recognition is a literal joke - if we're not in a hurry, I might try it, just to laugh about how bad it is. And I may ask for direction based on the POI menu, maybe restaurants specifically, and I KNOW that place is in their restaurant list, so why can't it figure it out from a pretty limited data set - I'm not asking for any place world-wide, just from POI in that town, or 'nearby'. It doesn't even need to figure out what I said, all it has to do is a best-match algorithm. If there's only 5 restaurants that start with an "M" sound, at least show those 5 in matched order. Is that so hard?

And the manual entry isn't much better - if you have a number and a street, you better also know if it includes a N/S/E/W prefix, or the manual system will just say I didn't find 123 Main street in that town. But enter 123 N Main, and it comes up.

Not that I am a fan of in car systems, they have improved dramatically from your experience. Our 2018 Subaru was primitive, voice worked less than 5% of the time, useless. Our 2019 Honda is measurably better, manual entry and voice - although voice nav is a cumbersome tree structure. Our 2022 Hyundai is slow but far better still, it almost always understands voice commands - so much so that I use them first for lots of functions, not only map but cabin temps, seat heaters, calling and texting. I use "go home" several times a week, it's never failed. Nothing like what you describe above. And of course Siri's voice is almost conversational for nav at least. As I understand it, Tesla voice commands are very good as well, not only nav but other functions.

 

[ERD50]

Not that I am a fan of in car systems, they have improved dramatically from your experience. ....

That's good to hear. Mine is a 2017 GM model (Buick Encore), not ancient, but maybe ancient in computing terms. But I'm certain that even in 2017, Google ran circles around it. And of course, w/o actual system updates, I'm stuck with 2017 performance for the life of the car, and I keep my cars a long long time.

But still, good to hear they are getting better.

-ERD50

 

[explanade]

What scam ?

I've found built in GPS on my phone really handy and accurate enough for knowing where I'm located in various countries.

Please educate us..

They charge thousands for built in GPS or you can only get it as part of expensive options packages or the only inventory of the model and color you want may have GPS but a lot of other things you don’t want to pay for.

And these things have inferior processors, displays, UI, software.

Also outdated maps by the time you get the car.

So the dealers will offer to install updated maps for a few hundred dollars and these maps are still inferior to maps in GPS apps.

 

[Jerry1]

The radio stations are quite a bit louder at the same volume level on the vehicle's audio system. A *lot* louder, as in ear- and speaker-damaging levels.

It's the only reason why I am willing to deal with the Sirius XM salespeople. I've canceled once in the past, and sure enough, within a week we were offered the same 12-mo/$60 plan (plus royalty fees) we wanted in the first place.

Every GM I’ve owned had a setting that limits the volume at startup. You could set that to zero and that should take care of the problem. However, then you would always have to turn your volume up when you get in the car. At least it wouldn’t blast you with high volume.

 

[statsman]

Every GM I’ve owned had a setting that limits the volume at startup. You could set that to zero and that should take care of the problem. However, then you would always have to turn your volume up when you get in the car. At least it wouldn’t blast you with high volume.

That feature isn't on that vehicle. Trust me, I know, or should I say, my ears know. I've looked up and down the entire menu system and the user manuals. I've searched the service manuals for ways around these issues. I fought this battle with Buick and GM several times, giving up a few years ago.

The software has settings for ringtone volume, text notification volume, speed compensation volume, but no "startup" volume setting, nor any source-specific volume adjustments.

I find it amusing when people keep wanting to tell me I'm wrong or I'm not looking in the right place or that I don't know what I am doing with regards to the 2015 Buick Enclave's Infotainment system. Trust me, no one, not even GM, knows it better than I do. The volume issue is just one of several flaws with their audio system.

 

[Jerry1]

I wasn’t trying to imply you were wrong. Just hoping that it was something you did not know about. It is surprising to me though. I owned many Buicks from around 2008 to 2015. Mostly Lacrosses but also a Rainer and a Lucerne and they all had it. Hard to understand why it wouldn’t be in the Enclave. GM does some weird/stupid stuff.

 

[JoeWras]

There are still luddites who cling to legacy systems, probably more here than the mainstream...

That's gotta be a small population, even here. Even a few years ago we had people here who would always chime in on threads that they would "never get a smart phone." That talk has nearly dissipated into oblivion. This is a tool that is becoming a requirement in modern life. Once one tries a smartphone map app (Apple or Google, doesn't matter), it is hard to deny their superiority. This is primarily because....

In addition to costly updates for maps, the real time traffic alerts and routing in the built-in version in the car are inferior to Google maps.

Yep. High speed internet trumps FM radio RDS which just trickles the traffic information at very low bit rates.

---

Auto manufacturers put a lot into these systems, and perhaps even have contracts with Garmin that have to be honored. They are just playing out the end of life development costs, and forcing people into buying them by linking them to other options, like heated seats.

Back to the OP first post: it seems like GM is embracing this concept still (since it is so profitable) and just moving to the next generation technology, developed by Google. It is unclear to me just what this will look like, but it won't look like the old built in nav systems.

 

[O2Bfree]

There are still luddites who cling to legacy systems, probably more here than the mainstream...

I wouldn't say "cling" exactly—I'd bet most luddites are just "fine without."