Have you lowered cholesterol without statins?

[flintnational]

High cholesterol is not necessarily a bad thing, according to a growing number of doctors and researchers. In fact it can be a good thing for older people. Do some research on your own.

+1

I am more concerned about HDL and Triglycerides. From what I have seen both are better markers than total cholesterol.

 

[Lsbcal]

My doc recently had me take a CT Heart scan (link: https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/diagnosing-heart-disease-cardiac-computed-tomography-ct#1 ) because I had somewhat high blood pressure and good but not great cholesterol numbers (total = 190, HDL = 58). I run about 15 to 20 miles/week in somewhat remote park areas so we want to make sure I won't have a heart incident out there. The deer and squirrels are not up on their CPR techniques.

The CT Heart results were not so great and I have an appointment this week. I think he will want me to take statins. At one point in the past I took Choleast which might have helped a bit with the cholesterol numbers but I worked on diet instead and stopped. I personally would trust statin's production methods more as red yeast extract is just an over the counter drug and has apparently has some statin like chemistry.

I have a very low risk profile: lean, eat a Mediterranean diet (occasional bacon eating out ), 1 glass of wine at dinner, never smoked, etc. Plus I run and work out at the gym. But genetics are what they are.

Perhaps asking your doc about tests like the CT Heart scan would be best before going on statins. My doc also had me do an Echo Cardiogram (ultrasound of heart) which is not covered by insurance and cost me $125.

 

[davebarnes]

My solution is discussed here
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/ice-cream-at-home-89789.html

 

[Lsbcal]

Timely subject for me. I just got the results from my recent blood work, and LDL is high (139). But HDL is also high (69) and Triglycerides are on at 100. Doctor recommends more exercise and diet change. I already exercise a lot but I know my diet can improve. I love cheese and eat way too much. My first concession to the new way of eating is to limit myself to one slice of cheese per day (down from 4-5)[emoji22]

The concern is how clogged your arteries are. From what I understand, the cholesterol numbers are just part of the story. See this link on atherosclerosis : https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/what-is-atherosclerosis#1

P.S. I love cheese too.

 

[O2Bfree]

My cholesterol had always been in the 170-180 range, until my 50s when the LDL started rising. HDL/LDL ratio is still good, but my total was in the 240-250 range a couple times. I've stayed active and kept my weight down, so no big changes there to blame.

Now this is somewhat anecdotal, but I started taking ginger supplements, 2-3 g per day, and since then the number has been around 220 the past three times (I've been monitoring it a couple times a year at one of those AnyLabTest places, in addition to a yearly physical). My doctor feels that my total risk for cardio problems is low, and is fine with that slightly elevated number. Haven't noticed any side effects from the ginger, no heartburn or anything, so I'll be keeping on with that.

 

[FIRE'd@51]

Ratios are good; HDL very good; other numbers, not so much.

IMO, an important ratio is Triglycerides/HDL , which I have never seen calculated on lab reports. I have read that if this ratio is greater than 3, it can be an indicator of insulin resistance.

 

[MRG]

I've had success from altering my diet and exercise. I agree dietary cholesterol isn't the big factor. For me eating steel cut oats and oatnut bread help as does a fishy diet. We eat salmon probably 4 times weekly.

For me weighing my food and collecting it with a calorie counter(MFP) was invaluable. Suddenly I had visabilty to the sources of sat fat in my diet and how little I needed to change.

 

[Amethyst]

How can one know if one's arteries are clogged, other than by having a cardiac event or stroke? ::

 

[Lsbcal]

How can one know if one's arteries are clogged, other than by having a cardiac event or stroke? ::

See my post above on CT Heart scans.

 

[PatrickA5]

I'd be curious to know what percentage of doctors believe Statins are a good thing vs a worthless thing.

I've been on statins for about 3 years. I have no side effects. I've done a number of tests that show coronary blockage (around 40% in a couple of arteries) and carotid artery blockage of around 60%. Both my PCP and Cardiologist tell me I need statins. Should I believe them? Are the doctors selling books on the horrors of statins right and my doctors wrong? If someone can please just tell me for sure whether Statins will help me from having a heart attack or stroke, then I'll know for sure. Thank you.

 

[braumeister]

Are the doctors selling books on the horrors of statins right and my doctors wrong? If someone can please just tell me for sure whether Statins will help me from having a heart attack or stroke, then I'll know for sure. Thank you.

WADR, when you have a situation where different groups of experts have opposing viewpoints, it would seem wise to do your own research and decide between them. It may be a lot of work to wade through all that research, but what's more important than your own health?

 

[PatrickA5]

WADR, when you have a situation where different groups of experts have opposing viewpoints, it would seem wise to do your own research and decide between them. It may be a lot of work to wade through all that research, but what's more important than your own health?

Actually, I did do quite a bit of research back when I first started taking them, including reading one of the books mentioned. Still don't know who to believe. I suppose if I had some of the side effects, I'd question my decision to take statins more. For now, I'll continue on with my doctor(s) advise.

 

[Dd852]

The doctor put me on statins but I really didn’t want to be tied to pills - so I started running/jogging. Every day. Without fail. 8-10 km. And after six months or so my blood was well within every norm. I’ve kept up the running, my blood has stayed good. I’ve stayed off the pills. I didn’t change my diet one bit, but the result of the running was a 25 lb drop from my highest.

 

[Lsbcal]

I'd be curious to know what percentage of doctors believe Statins are a good thing vs a worthless thing.

I've been on statins for about 3 years. I have no side effects. I've done a number of tests that show coronary blockage (around 40% in a couple of arteries) and carotid artery blockage of around 60%. Both my PCP and Cardiologist tell me I need statins. Should I believe them? Are the doctors selling books on the horrors of statins right and my doctors wrong? If someone can please just tell me for sure whether Statins will help me from having a heart attack or stroke, then I'll know for sure. Thank you.

Are there any follow up tests that can be done after 3 years of statin use? Would be good to see that your blockage numbers are not worse. If so, that might help with your question.

 

[FIRE'd@51]

I've been on statins for about 3 years. I have no side effects. I've done a number of tests that show coronary blockage (around 40% in a couple of arteries) and carotid artery blockage of around 60%. Both my PCP and Cardiologist tell me I need statins. Should I believe them? Are the doctors selling books on the horrors of statins right and my doctors wrong? If someone can please just tell me for sure whether Statins will help me from having a heart attack or stroke, then I'll know for sure. Thank you.

Just curious - have your lipid numbers improved since you started taking statins?

 

[PatrickA5]

Are there any follow up tests that can be done after 3 years of statin use? Would be good to see that your blockage numbers are not worse. If so, that might help with your question.

Actually, I just had a Heart Cath (angiography) and CT Scan done in August. It showed similar results to the Echocardiagram done in 2014 (around 40% blockage in one artery and 30% in a couple others). I also had a carotid Doppler (neck) done in August which was similar in results to a CT Neck scan back in 2014. So, my coronary artery disease has been stable for 3 years. I don't know that Statins are responsible, though. It could have taken 30 years for my arteries to get to where they are now (I'm 59).

 

[Lsbcal]

Patrick, stable sounds good to me. Cause and effect are not so easy to track down. I guess we have to just take our best swag at this.

 

[davismills]

I could not tolerate the statins, so my doctor advised Zetia. It supposedly works in the intestines versus the liver fooling statins. One year of use has produced no side effects, except some thinning of my hair.

As everyone has said, watch what you eat, exercise regularly, keep your weight down and limit alcohol use. I always seem to have problems following one rule or the other

 

[Helen]

Everything I've been reading shows no correlation between dietary cholesterol and your numbers. I'm eating more eggs and meat than ever and my numbers went down.

I've read that too, but I did a test on myself and found it not to be true. I had my blood drawn during a physical. I immediately switched my diet from a pescaterian diet (fish and dairy) to a plant based diet (vegan). My routine stayed the same as did my weight. 8 weeks later I had my blood taken again and my LDL dropped 22%. The only change I made was to cut out fish and dairy. I was surprised by the result.

The only way I would personally start taking a statin is if I developed heart disease. There is evidence that statins are effective when a person has heart disease.

 

[travelover]

My numbers are good, but because both parents had strokes at about my current age, I was put on statins. The first made my legs ache (I walk a lot) and the second made my thinking fuzzy. I've taken myself off the last one and will discuss it with my new doctor.

 

[Helen]

+1000

My ratios were and are also good although total cholesterol was high, in the low 200's. Dr convinced me to go on statins 4 yrs ago and I did ,without doing my own research as i should have. Was on them for six weeks and they ruined my joints, permanently, knees specifically.

This is terrible, I'm so sorry that happened to you.

Someone else posted on this board that that had happened to him too. He had a physical right before his early retirement. His numbers were slightly elevated so he took the doctor's advice and went on statins. He has permanent joint damage/pain now. He had retired early to hike and backpack and could no longer do that.

 

[PatrickA5]

Just curious - have your lipid numbers improved since you started taking statins?

For the most part yes. The only one that hasn't improved is HDL.

First Number 2017, Second 2014

Cholesterol 138, 219

LDL 68, 112

HDL 39, 42

Chol/HDL Ratio 3.54, 5.21

Non-HDL Chol 99, 177

Triglycerides 154, 324

 

[tmm99]

A while back, I read this thread below, specifically, DFW_M5's posts regarding phytosterols and related posts from the others. After doing some research, I decided to take the same supplement, because my LDL was high, and my Dr. was on my case. I took Phytosterols for a few weeks before taking the cholesterol test again, and my LDL dropped so significantly that my Dr. stopped bugging me. I quit taking the supplement right after the test result, because 1. I don't know how important it is for women to have low cholesterol. (I read that high cholesterol hasn't been linked to cardiac fatalities.) 2. I didn't know the long-term effect of this supplement.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/cardiac-ct-scan-for-calcium-64174-4.html#post1712743

 

[Red Badger]

Everything I've been reading shows no correlation between dietary cholesterol and your numbers. I'm eating more eggs and meat than ever and my numbers went down.

Lots of anecdotal input here, so I'll pile on as well.

After allowing my weight to creep up close to 200 pounds, I started a regimen of doubling my walking from 1-2 miles to an average of 4. More importantly, I quit stuffing so much pie in the pie hole.

Seriously, I cut out almost all processed foods and dramatically reduced eating out. As a road warrior, this meant buying groceries and being creative with hotel microwaves.

I ate a lot of eggs and reasonable amounts of meat, but not much beef (I remember when the medical community was saying how bad eggs were - now they are a super food... I suppose that's why its called medical practice).

My good cholesterol is 100 and the bad is about sixty. Triglycerides are ideal a well. Weight is around 155. I drink a few beers each week and some wine most days. Life be gooder.

Gotta go now. Time for my walk.

 

[Ready]

My cholesterol numbers were a little high so my doctor put me on Red Yeast Rice and Grape Seed Extract. I take one of each pill in the morning, and again in the evening. This lowered my numbers enough to keep me from needing statins. I buy them in bulk from Costco.