ERD50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Yes to the first. I just tell them that I don't want them and have never had a problem. Around here the dealers try to tack on a "documentation fee" or "doc fee" which is usually pre-printed on their contract form and is really for them doing the paperwork associated with the sale. I had one salesman try to con me that it was required by state law and told him he was full of sh*t. In each case I tell them that I refuse to pay for them doing their paperwork and they typically back down and just adjust the top line price downward to make up the difference.
Never tried on the second and I probably have signed something like that but it has never been a problem for me. I suppose you could refuse and walk out the door if it is a dealer thing, but if it is a manufacturer thing then I don't see that you have much leverage but it wouldn't hurt to try.
Thanks, the trouble I've seen is the dealer adds that junk to every car on the lot. I guess I'd need to make the case ahead of time.
As far as the arbitration agreement, I did avoid it once, just flat out told the guy I would need a good reason to sign my rights away. After a very firm push or two (doing my best Clint Eastwood glare), he wrote "declined" on it and moved on. Another time, it was late, and this is one of the last things they hand you to sign. I fought, but the guy said the owner requires it, and they can't sell a car w/o it. And I'm always the only guy that ever didn't want to sign it (either false, or there sure are a lot of sheep out there). I was thiiiiis clooooose to walking out, but I caved. Wasn't sure if I could find another dealer that would waive it, so I went ahead.
The arbitration contract is a doozy - you use their mediator, and you pay the first $X in expenses for any dispute. It's really one-sided.
edit/add: Doc fee - yep, I had a salesman word it very carefully - if I didn't know better, I would have thought it was a required fee. But in IL, there is simply a regulated maximum fee they can charge. They are not obligated to charge it. I thought I had found an error on their docs, I was going to ask for a refund of that fee, but it turned out to be correct.
-ERD50
Last edited: