Spanky
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I agree with LEX. Keeping your stuffs to a minimum and having a smaller house are ways to obviate the need for a maid and to simplify your life.
how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
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maddythebeagle
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is your dh "borrowing" your screen name again? this sounds more a like a male fantasy?
greg
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maddythebeagle said:is your dh "borrowing" your screen name again? this sounds more a like a male fantasy?
No, she is real
. In fact, we worked on her language skills one nite while watching HGTV. I told her that if she worked for me, she could only say "Me no speakee English, go see landlord." Or "Marklar." And she's even better than that! When she helps me cleans apartments she finds wonderful little useful things that people have left behind (So that we spend less money at Target) that I might have thrown away in anger at the tenant. We have a number of cooking utensils that I use almost daily.
--Greg
Way before all the shows on HGTV etc. about staging your house for sale, I had the same idea and thought that I might be able to start a business where I would help people get ready to sell their house. Basically, all I thought was necessary was some serious house cleaning and editing of furniture. I figured we always got good prices for our homes because we meticulously cleaned before any showing and excess stuff was removed.
But I was too lazy and never followed up. Now everyone seems to be doing it.
But I was too lazy and never followed up. Now everyone seems to be doing it.
Outtahere
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We have a small house, she comes every two weeks, does bathrooms, floors, kitchen, changes beds, vacumes and if we want she'll take the dog out... she doesn't charge by the hour it's $40 for our house... she has others and charges according to the size..dunno how she figures it but it works for me. If things got tough for any reason that would be the first thing to go, I consider it my luxury like some women have their nails done every two weeks.
I think the cultural differences are there. I'm reminded of an episode of "King of the Hill" where Peggy hires their Asian neighbor's mother as a fulltime maid and Hank, very uncomfortable with the idea, says something like "I don't even like it when they pick up my tray for me at the cafeteria."
farmerEd said:
I haven't calculated it per hour, but here is the breakdown, in US$, for our full time help.
Salary: 5140
Insurances: 100
Levy to Government: 925 pm
Medical and Dental Plan: 100 pm
Other Fees and Charges: 500
Private Phone Line: 108
Total Annual Direct Costs: 6873 pa
Indirect Costs:
Private bedroom and e-suite bath
All meals and drinks and non-personal domestic provisions.
Local day to day travelling expenses
Seasonal Gifts and Presents
retire@40
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There is something about having a maid or any other servant that I just don't like.
It might be a privacy thing, since I don't want strangers going through my house, especially when I'm not there. And I don't want them moving my stuff around. I want things exactly where they are, even if they may not be in their "natural" place.
It might be because I feel bad about these low-skilled mostly uneducated people having to stoop so low as to clean other people's crap. I know nobody is forcing them, they are being paid to do it, and if it were not for what they do, they may not have a job at all, but there is still an uneasyness about it.
Plus, I and my wife were brought up that we should do as much for ourselves by ourselves as possible.
With more free time on our hands, cleaning the house is just part of normal living. When you have a 2 or 3 bedroom house, it just takes a few minutes a day to keep it clean anyway.
It might be a privacy thing, since I don't want strangers going through my house, especially when I'm not there. And I don't want them moving my stuff around. I want things exactly where they are, even if they may not be in their "natural" place.
It might be because I feel bad about these low-skilled mostly uneducated people having to stoop so low as to clean other people's crap. I know nobody is forcing them, they are being paid to do it, and if it were not for what they do, they may not have a job at all, but there is still an uneasyness about it.
Plus, I and my wife were brought up that we should do as much for ourselves by ourselves as possible.
With more free time on our hands, cleaning the house is just part of normal living. When you have a 2 or 3 bedroom house, it just takes a few minutes a day to keep it clean anyway.
Outtahere
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Retire@40, I couldn't agree more!
Did I mention that the woman I have come in every two weeks is my stepsister? I won't go into why she does this but it's her thing. Both myself and her sister have her clean our houses, my sister has her clean her salon, most of her other customers are friends or friends of friends. She also knows once I quit working we won't need her except to watch the dog while we're gone.
I can honestly say if she wasn't my a family member I wouldn't have someone cleaning here. They say charity begins at home, I'm doing my part.
Did I mention that the woman I have come in every two weeks is my stepsister? I won't go into why she does this but it's her thing. Both myself and her sister have her clean our houses, my sister has her clean her salon, most of her other customers are friends or friends of friends. She also knows once I quit working we won't need her except to watch the dog while we're gone.
I can honestly say if she wasn't my a family member I wouldn't have someone cleaning here. They say charity begins at home, I'm doing my part.
retire@40
i agree with you. there is an unease feeling about having someone picking up and cleaning after myself, especially i have lived in the US for more than 20 years and so used to with picking up after myself. everyone around me lives like that.
Back in the old country, we never ever treat the helps bad (as far as i can remember) they were always eat, argue, fight, play balls with us.... i saw them as "big sisters", they became an intergral part of the family. However, if i really really have to guess. My parents income were at least 10-15 times more the helps, where as in US it's hard to accomplish that level.
my 2 cents
enuff
i agree with you. there is an unease feeling about having someone picking up and cleaning after myself, especially i have lived in the US for more than 20 years and so used to with picking up after myself. everyone around me lives like that.
Back in the old country, we never ever treat the helps bad (as far as i can remember) they were always eat, argue, fight, play balls with us.... i saw them as "big sisters", they became an intergral part of the family. However, if i really really have to guess. My parents income were at least 10-15 times more the helps, where as in US it's hard to accomplish that level.
my 2 cents
enuff
Maybe this says something about what class I am, but I've run into three nannies, but don't know of anyone who has live in help.
Also had a girlfriend once who cleaned houses for a living. She liked the independance, owning her own business. She didn't hire anyone, so had complete control. Didn't have to work nearly the hours most people do.
Her own place was a bloody mess.
I was under the impression that two of the nannies I met were being paid next to nothing, but I could be wrong. Am still in touch with friend of one of them, may ask if she knows, sometime.
The other one had her travel to America paid for by the family she lived with. I think she had a room in the house, food, and use of a car, but very little pay, unless I misunderstood or just assumed.
Maybe (some) nannies mostly look after the kids and don't do much cleaning, and therefore don't get much more than room&board?
Also had a girlfriend once who cleaned houses for a living. She liked the independance, owning her own business. She didn't hire anyone, so had complete control. Didn't have to work nearly the hours most people do.
Her own place was a bloody mess.
I was under the impression that two of the nannies I met were being paid next to nothing, but I could be wrong. Am still in touch with friend of one of them, may ask if she knows, sometime.
The other one had her travel to America paid for by the family she lived with. I think she had a room in the house, food, and use of a car, but very little pay, unless I misunderstood or just assumed.
Maybe (some) nannies mostly look after the kids and don't do much cleaning, and therefore don't get much more than room&board?
Housecleaners are great. But not having to clean the house is even better.farmerEd said:
In our housecleaner days, 1994-2002, we started in San Diego with $40/week cash to a little old lady from Tijuana. (To this day I regret not adopting her.) Back in Hawaii we paid $60/week cash to a great single mom who will one day dethrone Martha Stewart. She sold her business to a psychotic lunatic who was always doing what she wanted (instead of what we wanted) and kept dragging us into her soap-opera life.
We began to resent the weekly intrusion and my engineer's cost/benefits instincts kicked in. Instead of replacing the housecleaner, we decided to see if we could just stop cleaning the house. You only have to clean the place if you bring the dirt inside and if you let it get messy, so we try to eliminate those problems instead of cleaning up after them.
For example, my mother had always declared Thursday to be "strip your bed and launder your linens" day, a tradition which continued unquestioned in my mind for another 35 years. It turns out that you can wear out your linens with excessive laundering far faster than you can by sleeping in them for more than a week between washes. The same thing with vacuuming three times a week and all of the other "manufacturer's recommendations". Sanitation & hygiene don't become an issue even if you slice the frequency in half, let alone a third.
We learned a lot from "Speed Cleaning". We have enough silverware & dishes (Goodwill) that we only need to run the dishwasher once or twice a week (when it's crammed full). We don't scrub pots anymore, we soak them. We don't dry hand-washed dishes anymore, we let them air-dry.
We have mostly tile floors so that we can sweep or mop instead of vacuum. We don't wear shoes or socks indoors. We coat the outside window glass with Rain-X and only have to clean them once or twice a year (when we hose off the screens). We use a lot of closets & cubbies. Our kid is heartily tired of the daily 10-minute tidy, but it's the only thing that keeps horizontal surfaces from turning into junk piles. It's well known among the neighborhood kids that if you touch a window or an interior wall in our house you will clean it.
We have enough clothing (Goodwill again) to only do laundry two or three times a month. (Tae kwon do laundry is another problem, but doboks are expensive and not found at Goodwill.)
So we clean the house a lot less than we used to, but it's still one of the cleanest houses I've ever lived in. Our major cleaning task these days is bunny hair, and that problem will resolve itself in a few more years.
Now if I could just apply the same system to our yardwork...
astromeria
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Our cleaning lady charges $20/hour--she's the sister-in-law of a neighbor & friend. After her husband lost his job a few years ago, they got into a lot of debt (she wasn;t working then--she was raising her grandson...her daughter got pregnant at 15). Her DH is working now and her grandson is in school and daughter has a good job, but she cleans to pay off the debt--she told me that she'd rather clean than get any other kind of job. She's my age (mid-50s) and looks forward to paying off the debt and saving up to buy and fix up houses & sell them (going into business with my neighbor/friend), and you can see when she cleans that she enjoys it. She's a really nice lady, if not terribly bright or educated, and is probably not capable of doing or even getting an office job. I think her alternatives are things like WalMart associate and corporate cleaning staff, and this pays a lot better, has better hours, and she doesn't have to work for anyone she doesn't like.
Honkie writes:
I don't know if this explains it. I know plenty of two-career families here in Japan (including my own), and I have never even heard of any of them having a maid. I think a bigger factor is that the typical Japanese home is only maybe 1200-1500 square feet, so there isn't that much use, and certainly no room, for a maid. The cost of labor and the invasion of privacy would also be negative factors, as would the risk of appearing to give oneself airs.
Bpp
I don't know if this explains it. I know plenty of two-career families here in Japan (including my own), and I have never even heard of any of them having a maid. I think a bigger factor is that the typical Japanese home is only maybe 1200-1500 square feet, so there isn't that much use, and certainly no room, for a maid. The cost of labor and the invasion of privacy would also be negative factors, as would the risk of appearing to give oneself airs.
Bpp
bpp said:
bpp - I wouldn't disagree that your points could also be factors. I would be interested to know whether the two career families also have children - I would suggest probably not - although as I said, attitudes to married career women is changing particularly amongst the young. That said, family units, parents and parents in law are often on hand to take child minding duties.
Space is also a factor, particularly in the cities - I once had (briefly) a 350 sq ft apartment, albeit in th ecentre of Tokyo!!! It had a living/dining, kitchen, bathroom and 1 bedroom. Cosy!
bpp said:
Not strictly true, but an interesting view on how much space is enough. We are not in Japan, but we have 1100 sq ft and have a bedroom with en-suite for our helper.
Hi Honkie,
Not a very scientific sample, but of 7 two-career families I can think of immediately around me at work, 5 have kids, and one is trying to have kids. Now the 7th one is of an older generation, where the wife really had to fight to be treated the same as the men around her, so she may well have foregone kids for the purposes of career. (Then again, she may have had no interest in kids to begin with.) In any case, her efforts probably made things a lot easier for those who came after.
Where I work, almost no one comes from the local area -- they moved here for the job -- so there isn't much help from parents/in-laws. On the bright side, the public pre-school facilities are excellent, and for school-age kids there are after-school facilities which take care of kids until the parents get home, so these things help fill in the gap.
Cosy indeed... Then again, you had all of Tokyo for a back yard, right?
Wow, I couldn't imagine having a non-family member living with us in such a space. You know, when people build "two-generation homes" in Japan, the in-law suite is often fully self-contained, with separate entrance, kitchen, etc. And that's for blood relatives. Having a stranger living in even closer proximity... I'm not sure how well that would fly. For example, I think younger, single folks are more likely to trade off for a much smaller space all to themselves (like yours in Tokyo), than they are to have house-/flat-mates in a bigger space. Though I have to admit I have no hard data on this.
Do you not find that arrangement at all invasive of your privacy?
Bpp
Not a very scientific sample, but of 7 two-career families I can think of immediately around me at work, 5 have kids, and one is trying to have kids. Now the 7th one is of an older generation, where the wife really had to fight to be treated the same as the men around her, so she may well have foregone kids for the purposes of career. (Then again, she may have had no interest in kids to begin with.) In any case, her efforts probably made things a lot easier for those who came after.
Where I work, almost no one comes from the local area -- they moved here for the job -- so there isn't much help from parents/in-laws. On the bright side, the public pre-school facilities are excellent, and for school-age kids there are after-school facilities which take care of kids until the parents get home, so these things help fill in the gap.
Cosy indeed...
Then again, you had all of Tokyo for a back yard, right?Wow, I couldn't imagine having a non-family member living with us in such a space. You know, when people build "two-generation homes" in Japan, the in-law suite is often fully self-contained, with separate entrance, kitchen, etc. And that's for blood relatives. Having a stranger living in even closer proximity... I'm not sure how well that would fly. For example, I think younger, single folks are more likely to trade off for a much smaller space all to themselves (like yours in Tokyo), than they are to have house-/flat-mates in a bigger space. Though I have to admit I have no hard data on this.
Do you not find that arrangement at all invasive of your privacy?
Bpp
chris2008
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Living in Germany I have a lady for basic cleaning, averaging 6 h p. week.
Another option for working parents might be an "au pair". However, this cannot be compared to a full time helper, more to a family extension.
Another option for working parents might be an "au pair". However, this cannot be compared to a full time helper, more to a family extension.
bpp said:
I lived for several years in "single" accommodation in the Middle East - from 250 to 350 sq ft - living/dining/litchen plus bathroom and bedroom. Very snug but fine for a single guy. Then I moved to Asia and had very similiar accommodation. When the wife and I moved in together (well gf at the time) we moved up 700 sq ft with two bedrooms and felt like we were rattling around it was so big. It was simply a function of what I/we had become accustomed to. When offspring 1 signalled her arrival, we moved up again to 3 beds in 1100 sq ft plus en-suite and maid room. Wow, this feels palatial now compared previous places. So, to us, we feel we have "a lot" of space, thus having a live in helper doesn't feel like an invasion. We have a feeling of plenty. Plus, all those year in smaller places has meant that we never had a mindset of accummulation of "stuff" so our place is generally free of junk.
Honkie
In these calculations, let's just assume that the food costs here and in Asia are the same (as well as electricity use, water use, housing expense, etc) and lets look strictly at wage compensation.
At ONLY minimum wage $5.15/hr, 12 hours per day (live-in), you are looking at a daily cost of $72.10. My guess is that you would have to schedule a day off per week, so the weekly cost would be $72.10 * 6 = $432.60.
$432.60 * 1.14 (medicare, fica, fed, state, payroll costs) = $493.16/wk
Each month you would have healthcare and retirement. We will keep that minimal too at $450/m and that should cover gifts and expenses, etc.
So annually, ($493.16 * 52) + ($450 x 12) = $31044.53/annum
AND THAT IS JUST MINIMUM WAGE! Most domestic help in this country that is any good demands $20 per hour part time and $40K - $60K per year full time with full benefits, 2 days off and the option to go home at night.
Welcome to the richest country in the world where ALL of our citizens who work are guaranteed to be AMONG THE HIGHEST INCOME EARNERS on the planet!! Makes a strong case for being an ex-pat. You can live like a king when you step outside the infrastructure of the US.
So, back to relative economies, in order to experience the luxury of domestic help while living in the US, one could assume you must have an income relatively equal to what your income in Central America would be. So if you do well in Central America with an income of $35K/yr, I would expect that all things equal you could achieve close to the same luxury here at $350K - $525K per year (10x to 15x) depending on where you live in the US.
Now to consider the struggle in becoming a KING in the richest country in the world, take a look at:
http://www.globalrichlist.com/index.php
It should make you feel better
At ONLY minimum wage $5.15/hr, 12 hours per day (live-in), you are looking at a daily cost of $72.10. My guess is that you would have to schedule a day off per week, so the weekly cost would be $72.10 * 6 = $432.60.
$432.60 * 1.14 (medicare, fica, fed, state, payroll costs) = $493.16/wk
Each month you would have healthcare and retirement. We will keep that minimal too at $450/m and that should cover gifts and expenses, etc.
So annually, ($493.16 * 52) + ($450 x 12) = $31044.53/annum
AND THAT IS JUST MINIMUM WAGE! Most domestic help in this country that is any good demands $20 per hour part time and $40K - $60K per year full time with full benefits, 2 days off and the option to go home at night.
Welcome to the richest country in the world where ALL of our citizens who work are guaranteed to be AMONG THE HIGHEST INCOME EARNERS on the planet!! Makes a strong case for being an ex-pat. You can live like a king when you step outside the infrastructure of the US.
So, back to relative economies, in order to experience the luxury of domestic help while living in the US, one could assume you must have an income relatively equal to what your income in Central America would be. So if you do well in Central America with an income of $35K/yr, I would expect that all things equal you could achieve close to the same luxury here at $350K - $525K per year (10x to 15x) depending on where you live in the US.
Now to consider the struggle in becoming a KING in the richest country in the world, take a look at:
http://www.globalrichlist.com/index.php
It should make you feel better
I know many people that earn considerably less than $15K/year, working full time in this country - often without or with limited benefits. They can not get a better paying job than $7-8/hour. These people sometimes have done time or did not get a high school diploma. There are LOTS of these folks out there at this income level. But of course many people do not want these folks in *their* house. If you expect your help to be from an impeccable background with a good education to tutor the kids in addition to cleaning up after you 24/7 and get rid of them when you don't need them any more, good luck (or you have to pay dearly).
The alternative is to get an au pair. These often young foreign girls get paid very little (no minimum wage requirement). They are supposed to help out with the kids and do light housework only while enjoying a cultural exchange for a year or so. Often these kids are used as dirt cheap live in maids working their butts off while their guest families brag about their new status with 'full time help'. It can be a good experience for both parties but unfortunately many of the girls luck out.
If you need 24/7 live in help to survive with your daily chores and kids, maybe it is time to look at how you spend your own time. The average cube dweller or especially ER person should be able to do ok without this type of extensive support. Besides, I would go crazy if I had someone else than my husband in the house at all times.
Vicky
The alternative is to get an au pair. These often young foreign girls get paid very little (no minimum wage requirement). They are supposed to help out with the kids and do light housework only while enjoying a cultural exchange for a year or so. Often these kids are used as dirt cheap live in maids working their butts off while their guest families brag about their new status with 'full time help'. It can be a good experience for both parties but unfortunately many of the girls luck out.
If you need 24/7 live in help to survive with your daily chores and kids, maybe it is time to look at how you spend your own time. The average cube dweller or especially ER person should be able to do ok without this type of extensive support. Besides, I would go crazy if I had someone else than my husband in the house at all times.
Vicky
I have thought about the question of "how much income do I need to have a full time maid" and decided that if I had at least 30 million dollars in assets I would have a full time Factotum. He or she would arrange the cleaning of homes, help me plan my philanthropy, arrange trips, and generally help me with my life.
Oh wait, I have Greg.
Oh wait, I have Greg.
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
Martha said:Oh wait, I have Greg.
...and my deepest sympathy.
big D,
yup, agree with you and as i have predicted, i would need approx. 10-15 times the salary of the maid.
and yes welcome to the richest country in the world where a full time maid can make as much as some doctor in others country.
but this kind of life style is definetely NOT for the ER. i can NOT imagine the stress level for anyone who make that kind of salary...
enuff
yup, agree with you and as i have predicted, i would need approx. 10-15 times the salary of the maid.
and yes welcome to the richest country in the world where a full time maid can make as much as some doctor in others country.
but this kind of life style is definetely NOT for the ER. i can NOT imagine the stress level for anyone who make that kind of salary...
enuff
