How to make buying a car less of a chore

[sengsational]

Just bought a car for my daughter this afternoon.

It was about as painful of an experience as I expected it to be.

Months ago I experimented (using a spamgourmet email address and not real phone number) with TRUECAR and CarSaver (put in 33160 or somewhere in S. Florida zip code for that one). I got back a few specific prices and tons of emails saying I needed to come in to test drive. I ignored all those emails.

What I learned from my experimentation with those services is that the dealers can respond with wildly different pricing, all the way from almost paying full price MSRP down to having me wondering if I really showed up would they really sell it to me at that price.

Then, reading more, I realized that the dealers can and will add dealer fees, dealer accessories, etc to the price you see there. So I realized you need to email them and get the out the door price (or more likely, out the door less taxes).

So that was months ago, just playing around. Then I got serious last week and actually put in the right zip code for where I'd be this past weekend. I got back some responses for specific cars with specific pricing. I started emailing back and forth, clarifying that I was seeing an all-in price, and the only thing to be added was government stuff. I had three deals, but only two were responsive to my emails. I think the third did not have a specific car that fit the criterion. So I had two prices in-hand.

TrueCar has, famously, the bell curve, but since that doesn't include dealer options and charges, it's not quite as helpful as it might seem at first. They have something called "Program Estimate". I compared the prices I got back in emails to the program estimate. One was priced 2.5% below that. The other was just a fraction below that.

So, with those understood prices in hand, I called the contact on the one with the 2.5% below program estimate, asked if they still had the car (yes), said I'd be there in an hour, and took a test drive. The painful part then started where we sat for what seemed like hours saying the same thing "the car is not exactly what we want". By the time we left, we were at 2.75% below program estimate (so below the price on the email). This was without really trying to get the price down. We finally left with the idea to "sleep on it".

So, having that price, knowing we could go back and get what I thought was a pretty good deal, we went to the other dealer, which had the higher price (relative to program estimate). This car had a bit different trim line, but I already knew that people generally paid $1100 more for this trim/features. So I took the price for the other car, added $1000 and said I think that would be fair. We were MILES apart because they "forgot" that the negotiations were supposed to start out at the price I got from the email. In other words, they were trying to get me to negotiate down from some arbitrarily high deal they worked-up at first. Then the theatrics continued as some white shirt slick guy came by and said it was his fault (so as not to tarnish our salesman, I'm sure, who was very concerned about the survey we would take post-sale). Anyway, we weren't too far apart ($500 or $600) once they wrote-up the TrueCar deal, but they weren't budging. Some other guy came-by and said "If I could hit your number, would you buy this car?" And I though we were getting somewhere! I said yeah, that's what I've been saying since I sat down. He went away and the salesman came back and said they can't do my number (now ripping hair out, but not showing it). So we resign ourselves to going back to the other dealership.

Making the turn onto the highway, not 30 seconds down the road, we get a call on the cell phone. They can do my number after all! So we drive around the block and start the paperwork.

They weren't done selling, though. They had extended warranties, paint protection, blah, blah, blah. Our salesman did a few pitches, then the business office did a few pitches. She knew we weren't buying, and said, "Yeah, but I've got to go through all of this stuff".

Turns out some of that stuff they were trying to sell were already on the car, and we ended-up with it (the paint protection, fabric protection).

So, In summary, I stayed completely out of the detailed numbers. I really only looked at the bottom line. I figured if I started looking at the details, I'd be in the weeds, and they'd have me where they wanted me. I started with what looked like the dealer with the best deal in the email, then once I had visited that one, visited a second one and used the first for leverage.

So, here's the specifics:
Prius V Three: 28060 + 40 + 885 (MSRP, Ad Fee, Dest Fee) <<< This is standard stuff
Overpriced crap they add: 399 + 199 + 69 + 699 (mats, paint prot, USB cables, toyoguard)
Discounts: -5697
Dealer overpriced crap: 602 (never did figure out what this was for)
Dealer doc charge: 649 (this is kind of standard, albeit high)

So the total of those is 25905, which is 3.5% below the 'program estimate' of 26839. I don't know if it's valid to compare to program estimate, but I figured it's better than list price.

Although I think I got a good deal, I'm not sure of that, haha! I do know that I spent as much time as I could manage on this process. I'm reminded that buying a new car is a RPITA.

 

[brewer12345]

I'm reminded that buying a new car is a RPITA.

Every time I idly wonder if it is time to upgrade, I remember the pain of trying to buy new.

 

[Hermit]

DW used to go to extremes to keep me away from car salesmen. I think she was afraid I would blow out a few veins. I want to buy a truck, but I am not sure I can stand the process.

 

[jazz4cash]

Took my daughter to buy a new car with my employee discount. Turns out the current marketing program is a "tag" deal whereby dealer can tag a few cars each month that get loss leader pricing. Result is two identical cars one red and the other blue but the blue one is tagged and costs thousands less than the red car. Our local dependable dealer did not have a red model tagged and DD wants red. Thus tag program beats my employee discount so off we go to an unknown dealer the next state over and bingo they have what she wants! Only problem is the car is sold and the buyer is en route to close the purchase. We stand around the lot cursing our luck and searching another red car nearby with the tag discount. Then the salesman comes out and says the buyer couldn't get financed and the car is ours if we wish. At this point I figure we're good to go but the dealer was not going to let us leave without taking the car even if it wasn't paid for. They got her financed with DW as consigned and all the paperwork done. They pushed all the extra coverages and I tried to let DD make all the decisions after giving her pros and cons. She took the bait hook line and sinker along with DW! It was taking hours and I finally let her buy all the extras with assurance we could cancel within 72 hrs (which she did). It was midnight by the time we left. The car didn't get detailed and she didn't bring her checkbook for the down payment. They cheated I think by filing a claim against my employee purchase program even though it wasn't used. Good news is she loves her shiny new red ride. This was the closest I've come to buying a new car like everyone else and still didn't have to negotiate the price.

 

[Sunset]

Hating buying cars is one reason I keep mine for 12 yrs or more.

I finally decided to use the manufacturer MSRP, as a point to compare the dealer price when comparing different vans. Whichever was the biggest discount from MSRP was probably a better deal.

My thinking is the manufacturer wants to set a reasonable MSRP, or nobody would even think of the car as a choice.

 

[SheitlQueen]

I just bought a 6 month old used truck with 6000 miles on it.
Had the dealer email me the "internet special" price and went and looked at it.
Told them I was not going to haggle and what was the absolute lowest price
they would sell it for (it was already priced well). They came back with a price of $500 less. I offered $500 less than that, and they accepted. I got the price I wanted, no trauma, and a great deal.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

This is why I have leased for the last 15 years. A lot of people pooh pooh leasing, but I like a new car every 3 years anyway. You still lose on depreciation, but get to keep the majority of the purchase price in your pocket and with cheap money it works out well. If interest rates were 8%, then well that would be a different story.

My current BMW lease runs out next month, so I am about to embark on the new lease train. Trouble is there are not too many Diesels for sale in the US any more. The good news is the ones that are, are priced well.

PS. I looked at hybrids and electrics, but my BMW does 52.4 mpg on the freeway. So I do not need one, (A Hybrid that is).

 

[athena53]

I HATE buying cars. I'm a lousy negotiator and all of my car-buying experiences have been miserable for one reason or another- stories too long to post here.

So, since marrying DH in 2003, he's done the car-buying. (He picked out the one I drive now while I was in India on business, after we exchanged a few e-mails.) We bought from Enterprise off-rental, which I HIGHLY recommend if you want to buy used. No dickering except that when we took one of the cars to our mechanic to look it over they did come down on price a bit because of a repair that would be needed soon.

My current car is a 2012 an I have no plans to replace it unless it becomes unreliable. DH died last year so it will be up to me. When that happens my first route would be Enterprise and my next would be Costco. And I suppose you know this but do NOT finance through the dealer. That's one of my horror stories.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I HATE buying cars. I'm a lousy negotiator and all of my car-buying experiences have been miserable for one reason or another- stories too long to post here.

So, since marrying DH in 2003, he's done the car-buying. (He picked out the one I drive now while I was in India on business, after we exchanged a few e-mails.) We bought from Enterprise off-rental, which I HIGHLY recommend if you want to buy used. No dickering except that when we took one of the cars to our mechanic to look it over they did come down on price a bit because of a repair that would be needed soon.

My current car is a 2012 an I have no plans to replace it unless it becomes unreliable. DH died last year so it will be up to me. When that happens my first route would be Enterprise and my next would be Costco. And I suppose you know this but do NOT finance through the dealer. That's one of my horror stories.

I am Very Sorry for your loss. You may want to solicit assistance when your current ride gives up the ghost. Car buying for sure is not for the faint of heart. My DW rarely goes with me when we do, on the rare occasion when she does, she usually warns the Sales Manager (I only ever deal direct with them) "My Husband is an Engineer You Know" then walks out and gets the free breakfast or lunch that most dealerships offer these days.

 

[nativenewenglander]

I always buy a two year old car with less than 30,000 miles on it my brother does the same. My wife drives a Subaru Forester, we bought used from a dealer with 20,000 miles for $14,000. I hate buying new from dealers, I work in sales and can't stand car salesmen. It would be nice if they just posted a fair price and you could buy like a box of cereal.

 

[athena53]

I am Very Sorry for your loss. You may want to solicit assistance when your current ride gives up the ghost. Car buying for sure is not for the faint of heart.

Thanks- I could bring DS into it. He lives 3 hours away but he's an excellent negotiator and knows the values of cars inside and out from his years settling claims for people who totalled their cars. He's settling agribusiness claims now so the dollar values in his head will become less and less relevant, but there's always research on the Internet, which wasn't an option last time I bought a car (1991). My feminist sensibilities HATE bringing a man into it (it just feeds the stereotype that makes sales people assume that a women shopping alone will have to consult her husband). My plan is to do research and then choose a no-hassle route such as Enterprise or Costco.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I just bought a 6 month old used truck with 6000 miles on it.
Had the dealer email me the "internet special" price and went and looked at it.
Told them I was not going to haggle and what was the absolute lowest price
they would sell it for (it was already priced well). They came back with a price of $500 less. I offered $500 less than that,and they accepted. I got the price I wanted, no trauma, and a great deal.

Isn't this haggling?

 

[Dawg52]

I HATE buying cars. I'm a lousy negotiator

Same here. I used Truecar.com on my last purchase. The transaction was very easy and I was surprised at the discount I got. If I had gone in on my on I could have easily paid a few hundred more. I have a buddy who works in the service dept of a local dealer and he said it was a pretty fair way to get to your end price. He also said aggressive buyers can do a little better, but not a ton better. For passive personalities like myself it's a nice tool to have available.

 

[mystang52]

If you want to discuss the best way to manage a complicated workers' compensation claim, I think I'm one of the best. That was what I did for my career. Car dealers and their salesman sell cars - that is what they do. So, I don't deceive myself into thinking I can "beat" them at what they do every day.
But I do my best to not get ripped off. And as previously mentioned here, one of the best tactics is to walk out, especially if they know you are looking not just at other same-make dealers, but also competitive brands. And, also mentioned before, I make sure when we are talking price we are discussing all-in price. If they try to surprise me with out-of-the-blue add-on's, I will not buy from them.

 

[SheitlQueen]

Isn't this haggling?

Not really. To me, haggling is when they go back and for and back and forth on the price, then disappear to the managers office to get the deal approved ("which I'm sure the manager WILL approve), they come back 15 minutes later and say it wasn't and you start all over. Then they start with trying to sell you the upgrades.I remember one dealer that would not give me my car keys back after they "borrowed" them to look at my car as a possible trade in. I had to threaten to call the police to get them back.
The negotiations took all of three minutes. To me, that's not haggling

 

[SheitlQueen]

I used Costco when I bought my car. Just remember the Costco price is just the beginning, and you can beat the price down even lower.

 

[Dash man]

I enjoy buying a new vehicle. We recently purchased a new Subaru Outback from a local dealer. We wanted all the new safety features including Eyesight anti collision. We did our online research and knew what we wanted to pay, which was a few hundred under invoice for this fully equipped car. They hesitated playing their game but eventually agreed to our price. The care had been on the lot for 90 days. So they were not going to pass on this sale. Then came the finance guy with the extended warranty, paint protection, lost key protection and a myriad of other add ons for the vehicle.
With all the computer parts involving a car, I like an extended warranty and they've always paid for themselves if you negotiate the price down. Same with the paint protection. We got both for about half price from their original offer. Since keys are expensive to replace we also negotiated that into the deal for less than half price. The finance guy was irritated, but I had a printout of similar coverages from my insurance company and used that as a basis. He never saw those prices but realized I had don my homework. We love the car!

 

[euro]

I just went through the process myself. I decided to give TrueCar and Costco a shot, and both of those would have delivered what I feel was a decent price, so I don't think you can go seriously wrong with either of them. That said, in the end, I was able to shop THOSE prices to a few other dealers and ended up getting an additional $500 off. BUT: I ended up taking a car that had apparently been sitting on the lot for 3 months. DOWNSIDE (and probably the reason why it was sitting) is that its color is black. I don't like black cars, but I'm also cheap, so I decided I could live with it.... Other downside (for many this would be an upside): I wanted the most basic trim, but this car is the "premium" package (aluminum wheels, tinted rear windows, center armrest for back seat, etc). Probably an extra $1500 of stuff that I would actually prefer not having. Again, I decided to, live with it though. Turns out that no dealer has the base trim on the lot - you'd have to custom order (one dealer called it the "unicorn car".

So, in summary, TrueCar and Costco would have been fine. With some digging and e-mail work, I was able to find a slightly cheaper "laggard" on a local dealer's lot. Once I hit the showroom, the process was very smooth. No up-selling or hidden fees. Which probably means the dealer was happy with the price too and still made his fair share (or more) on the deal.

 

[Nightcap]

Rather enjoy it. We research a lot, then I find the one I like to drive (since DW doesn't drive much), and then when we're nearing a deal, DW takes over negotiations. "We want you to be happy with this deal, and we know you want us to be happy with this deal, but I just don't feel happy about (trade-in offer, cost of options, etc.)" She's the nicest person in the world, but she didn't spend her entire career working with high-powered lawyers without picking up a few things.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Ah, the joys of buying a new car. NOT.

I am not in the market for a car (and hopefully not anytime soon) but I would like to do it the way my Dad has done for many years. Basically, he finds what he wants and does the pricing over the phone. Then, the dealer brings the car over (and the paperwork) and it's all done at the kitchen table. After being in the Air Force for about a year and dealing with a POS VW that stranded me on a couple of occasions, I came to the conclusion that a new car would be smart. So, knowing how good my Dad was with this, I told him what I wanted and within a couple of days, he had a price. I contacted a couple of dealerships near where I was stationed and none of them could get NEAR the price he negotiated...they told me that there was no way he got that deal. So, the next weekend, I drove my busted up VW the 500+ miles back home and within about an hour of getting there, the new car showed up with the salesman and the paperwork. So, about 30 minutes later, the deal was done and I had a new car. Ah yes, I drove that new car (it was actually a Ford Ranger) for many, many years and had 211,000'ish miles on it when I finally sold it.

 

[travelover]

I used Costco when I bought my car. Just remember the Costco price is just the beginning, and you can beat the price down even lower.

Exactly, get a Costco price, then ask dealers to beat it, via email. Every time you get a lower price, see who will beat that price. Once you hit bottom, drive to the dealer and pick it up. Stiff arm the finance, rust proofing and paint sealer salesman on the way out the door. No need to ever sit in a dealership and "negotiate".

 

[athena53]

If you want to discuss the best way to manage a complicated workers' compensation claim, I think I'm one of the best. That was what I did for my career. Car dealers and their salesman sell cars - that is what they do. So, I don't deceive myself into thinking I can "beat" them at what they do every day.

Well, DS the claims guy seems to have some generic negotiation skills that I lack. When he was in junior HS, he used to trade Magic cards with friends. Once he traded way a particular card and regretted it. Through another series of trades, he got back that card plus a few others.

I always knew there was something special about him!

 

[Fedup]

I usually spend months getting internet quotes. When I see a good deal is when I come in and pick up the car. No negotiation ever. If the price is not competitive, I don't come in. I never have patience with people wasting my time.

 

[sengsational]

I usually spend months getting internet quotes. When I see a good deal is when I come in and pick up the car. No negotiation ever. If the price is not competitive, I don't come in. I never have patience with people wasting my time.

That was kind of my plan too, but they still managed to waste my time. It's what they do. If I wasn't sitting with my DD and DW, I might have walked, but they know that you must have some reluctance to walking, even if it's only because you'd need to drive X miles to another stealership.

My plan included having internet quotes in hand that were at a level I was willing to pay. But they played games. They write up the deal and it doesn't come back with the right price. Do you simply get up and walk out, or do you say "That's $1,800 too high, what happened to the internet deal?" and let them sharpen their pencil? I did the latter. Then I figured if the other dealer could get below MSRP by 10%, why can't you do that too, so once I had the internet offer, I made an offer that was a bit more than 10% off MSRP and ended up getting that.

Each time they pulled the "I don't know if they'll approve this, I'll go to bat for you...", DD and I giggled and reenacted the scene from "Fargo" where the salesman goes into the manager's office and talks about sports while the customer waits, lol!

https://youtu.be/E5gwc4UizUc?t=15

 

[Hermit]

I will have to order the truck I want. I have no clue how to get a really good deal. I'm lucky to find someone that can figure out how to specify it. It is always the commercial fleet guy. I guess I could shop the specs around.