How Your Kids Can Ruin Your Retirement

[ivinsfan]

I attended the funeral of a niece yesterday. She was 39. She spent a lot of time with DW and me when she was very small. She has had drug and alcohol problems for 20 years. She also stayed employeed and owned her own home. Not even the loss of her first husband about 5 years ago to drugs and alcohol could sway her and urging from the family including financial help did not work either. Even with her addictions, she was a very warm and caring person. Her death was extremely sad to her family and her Uncle Hermit.

I don't really have much to add to this thread. Just relaying a sad experience of where it too often ends.

How heartbreaking for your whole family. .I'm sorry for your loss....

 

[Teacher Terry]

My ex and I long ago accepted it because it’s been a 20 year journey. If one of us hears from him we share because at least we know he is still alive. We had to detach for our own mental health. I worked in the field and no easy answer.

 

[SoReadyToRetire]

We've been there, too. Both my DH's "kids" (now in mid- to late-30's) are recovering addicts, clean for about a year apiece. We've handed out more than our share of money trying to "help" them over the years.

What struck me when I saw the heading of this post was the text I received this morning from my stepdaughter. She just had her 2nd baby, with a 2nd ne'er-do-well who has 5 other children with 4 other women (father of her first kid is back in Federal prison; he just got out after a 1--year sentence, stabbed someone in the neck over a gold chain, and went right back in). She hasn't worked for more than a year in her whole adult life--lives off the State, having a baby when she needs to get out of her mother's house because she can't take the drama anymore--blah, blah, blah. Very entitled and with the emotional maturity of a 13 year old.

Anyway, this baby (who DD told us she didn't really want because she wanted a boy, if you can believe that) was born 5 weeks premature, with her intestines outside her body, weighing under 4 lbs. She's been in the NICU for about 5 weeks now. She gets to go home with her parents on Monday.

I've been watching posts on Facebook for several months of all the tiny designer sneakers, millions of little dresses, hats, outfits, and various other ridiculousness DD's been buying for the baby. DD of course has an iphone, carries only designer purses and wears only designer shoes/clothes, smokes, and gets her nails done "on the regular", etc. I think she makes the money for this by dealing (again, derived from FB posts that are meant to be vague but are so obvious I can't believe they don't bring the cops racing to her doorstep).

So this morning I get a text--"HEY--I need a HUGE favor. My car desperately needs breaks [sic] and rotors; it's not safe for the baby. I'm broke ..." That was it.

So far, my DH is agreeing with me that NO--we're not doing it this time!!! She's 35, has two kids, the first of which her mother raised while she did drugs and went in and out of jail, etc. She has chosen another man with a record who works part-time washing dishes to be the father of her child. And WE'RE SUPPOSED TO FALL FOR PAYING FOR HER CAR TO BE FIXED BECAUSE SHE USED THE "IT'S NOT SAFE FOR THE BABY" LINE?!!? I don't think so. We're over here busting our asses so we can retire while we can still walk.

LOTS and lots of history and bitterness here ... as you can probably tell. But my point is, it sure is easy to get sucked in when you start with the smaller things with "kids"--and the next thing you know, they're supposed "adults" who haven't a clue about how to take care of themselves.

I hope DH is able to stand his ground this time. Last time his son went to jail, his ex called begging for "help" with bail money. DH said "I'll do it one last time, but THIS time he's paying us back when he gets out." Um, yeah ok--that was about 3 years ago. Drives me insane.

Sorry for going on. Guess this post struck a nerve.

 

[Calico]

I attended the funeral of a niece yesterday. She was 39. She spent a lot of time with DW and me when she was very small. She has had drug and alcohol problems for 20 years. She also stayed employeed and owned her own home. Not even the loss of her first husband about 5 years ago to drugs and alcohol could sway her and urging from the family including financial help did not work either. Even with her addictions, she was a very warm and caring person. Her death was extremely sad to her family and her Uncle Hermit.

I don't really have much to add to this thread. Just relaying a sad experience of where it too often ends.

I am so very sorry for your loss.

 

[Independent]

Thanks for all the stories. I feel like I can tell mine.

My son was academically gifted - national merit scholar, academic scholarship to a decent private college, LSAT scores that would be typical at Harvard, scholarship to top-ten public law school. Then the wheels came off. I expect it was a genetic inclination toward depression interacting with the stress of law shool. And self-medicating with alcohol.

He didn't tell us what was happening because he managed to stay in school - even graduate and pass the bar. He lost his scholarship, but borrowed to pay the bills (didn't tell us that). He picked up DUIs, which lead to a law license with an asterisk. The traffic judge ordered him into AA. And, he graduated into the depths of the recession.

So we helped him out financially "for a while, until he finds a job". AA is a Good Thing. He stays sober. But, the cycle of depression and joblessness goes on. He eventually finds something doing bankruptcies. Not "enough" money, but a start and he's using his degree and gaining experience. We're still helping out financially.

The economy improves, bankruptcies go down, he has a falling out with his boss, tries solo practice and can't get clients, and we're still sending money.

There's more to the story, but I'll just jump to: he's still sober, seeing a therapist and a psychiatrist, the combination of the depression and the drugs make him incredibly tired. He's not working, we're still sending money.

Yep, retirement isn't at all what I expected. (there's more with other family members). I had planned on a lot of travel, that money is all gone. I didn't buy LTC insurance because we had a big war chest. Now it's shrinking, and it's too late to buy insurance.

Nothing more to say, just feels good to get the story out.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Independent, I see how easy it was to get sucked in because he wasn’t a obvious loser like my son. I hope you can stop enabling and find some peace. So ready, I really hope your husband can hold firm. Thankfully my son never had children.

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

The hardship, loss, and anguish in these comments saddens me greatly. My heart goes out to all who have experienced these with their children. I have no solutions to offer beyond those already suggested by the wise folks on this board.

My wife and I were not able to have children; so we missed the potential heartaches, but also missed the joys. We lost a baby and couldn't have another, and never really recovered. Lucky for us, we have the twenty-something daughters of several friends plus one niece in our lives. We have offered financial help to to the niece so far, but are champing at the bit to help the two others also...one in London trying to make her way, the other just having finished graduate school and starting a new job and her first serious relationship. All three need to watch their pennies to varying extents.

We are far from rich, but I could see us making small, but significant gifts to all three and thereby disrupt our carefully managed retirement budget. The urge is there to be parental (even though in the case of the two daughters of friends, they have fine parents; my brother's daughter is another, awful, story). So, I worry about our being seen as interlopers in two of these three cases. I've acted as a mentor for all three, mock job interviews, advice about relationships, relieving stress, etc. But when the one in London -- who, like the two others, expects nothing financial from us, btw -- talks about saving for months to replace her 6 year old smartphone with cracked glass, because a new one will cost half of a month's rent in a 4 person shared flat, I just want to give her an envelope of cash! Again, part of the worry is how the real parents might interpret our actions. We would be loath to interfere in their parenting.

In one case the young woman lost her father to cancer and in the process loss his entire side of the family (they never accepted the marriage, so his death gave them an out). On a visit with us once she mentioned that she worried about what would happen if her mother were no longer in the picture. We told her that we would always be like family to her and that she could take that as a promise. I then told her mother about the conversation and our commitment, and she was glad for it.

As a childless couple, the feelings of gratification we get from helping these three, whom we feel are like daughters to us, are enormously strong. If one of them fell into an abyss of addiction or emotional illness, I'm not sure we would not be willing to sacrifice a lot for her.

None of this helps the OP; I just wanted to add my story, which has a different angle to it.

-BB

 

[Raygun99]

Our son's drug addiction started right under our nose. By age 14 he was already into it and it took us to age 17 to figure it out.. Needless to say it tore up our immediate and extended family, my job, and future. (We came close to ending our marriage, almost sent us to financial ruin. I still work PT /67/ to this day to keep us financially solvent) In the beginning it was denial, anger, sad, shame. FA helped us realize we were helpless, but every day events and consternation kept us helping for far too long. We knew we couldn't turn our back on our child. We have EVERY obligation to help. But when he got to be adult (25) we finally accepted it was dependant on everyone's survival to cut the rope. I don't know when the next bad event will happen but I pray we are strong enough to NOT enable. I bleed for everyone in this forum and the world who have to watch their hopes and dreams destroyed by these addictions. I am no longer feeling shame, only remorse. God Bless you for caring and I hope you can find peace.

 

[EastWest Gal]

This thread is useful as it allows to see that they are not alone in coping with problem children and other relatives due to drugs and alcohol. Something I’m seeing in this thread is the courage to let go is as we and they age, recognizing that they need to leave the nest and build their own. And their failures are their own.

This is a good thing.

I have a 77 year old friend who raised 5 children and who also had some student exchange kids. She has one struggling child to whom she gives no help and frets little over. The rest are doing great. She just lives her life with her husband. He volunteers at the Library of Congress concert series. At some point we have to let those we love travel their own journey. And we have let ourselves chose to travel our journey without feeling obligated to be everyone’s safety net.

I am fortunate to have a son who, though living at home, is productive. He has a Roth IRA and a lot saved up already. No chance he’ll ever do drugs or alcohol. He sees both as poison.

 

[Texas Proud]

I read the posts of people who seem to get these requests from extended family and are willing to help..


I told my oldest nephew about 15 or so years ago that if he asked me for money again I did not want to speak to him... it has worked out great for me... he is still asking a couple of sisters (not his mom) but AFAIK they are not doing anything...


Now, I have been going through my mom's paperwork and have seen that she did send money to him off and on... most seemed to be for a birthday or other event and not a lot, a few hundred here and there... but I did see one larger check for a few thousand... I have no idea how many she might have sent..

 

[Dtail]

I read the posts of people who seem to get these requests from extended family and are willing to help..


I told my oldest nephew about 15 or so years ago that if he asked me for money again I did not want to speak to him... it has worked out great for me... he is still asking a couple of sisters (not his mom) but AFAIK they are not doing anything...


Now, I have been going through my mom's paperwork and have seen that she did send money to him off and on... most seemed to be for a birthday or other event and not a lot, a few hundred here and there... but I did see one larger check for a few thousand... I have no idea how many she might have sent..

In charge of all my parents' investment and bank accounts, so at least this situation will not happen.

 

[aja8888]

First of all, let me mention that these sad stories and outcomes are not uncommon. Lots of people are struggling with situations like these and not saying much about it. For most of them, it's too hard and embarrassing.

DW and I met and married two decades ago, both products of divorce with children. I had two beautiful teenage daughters at the time and was going to raise them on my own (DW checked out at that time and didn't want to be part of the parenting, plus she took off to another state).

My new DW has three children, all on their own with spouses at the time of our marriage . All were divorced within 5 years of our marriage date and all for a variety of reasons, none of which were any good.

I lost my oldest daughter at 22 years old 6 years after DW and I were remarried when my daughter was a senior in college. Drug issue. Her funeral damn near killed me emotionally and I am not over it yet, and may never be. It hurts me to write this.

Two of DW's three children, all over 40 now, are not doing too well. Her son ended up in prison for a felony DUI, and one daughter pretty much lives under a concrete overpass somewhere in Houston. We have helped these two on countless occasions but nothing worked. We gave up, although DW still feeds money to them without me knowing it.

At us well over 70 now, our health problems are taking precedence. The other two children, my youngest and her youngest daughter are both in good, solid relationships and are clean.

Maybe we were bad parents? I don't think so, but our success rates with children are not worth talking about.

A couple of my friends routinely talk about their kids and grandkids and how everything is "perfect" with their lives and families. That bothers me when I hear stories like that. Maybe they are not telling the whole story? That's what goes through my mind when they talk about how wonderful everything has been with their lives.

 

[mistermike40]

This is a difficult and sensitive topic... probably no definitive "right" or "wrong". TT, it sounds like you did everything you could for your son. It's heartbreaking.

Like someone said in this thread, they have to want to get help. My nephew struggled with addiction for two decades, and it crushed my brother and SIL. He would show up every now and then, and cash and miscellaneous items would be missing (to be sold for drugs). Now in his early 40's, he seems to have turned things around and is doing *much* better (clean and sober, employed, being a better father, etc).

My take is this: most of us here who have children are hoping/expecting to leave them a chunk of money someday. Thankfully my kids have never had to struggle with addiction, but if they did I would rather spend "their" money now to help them get clean... they might not be around later anyway. I wouldn't give them any money to support their behavior, but I would always be willing to help them in recovery.

I'm not suggesting we enable or financially support addictive behavior, but for many addicts treatment isn't successful the first, second or third time... for some (like my nephew) it takes longer. I would rather keep sending them to rehab, each time hoping this is the magical time when something clicks, the message sinks in, and they turn their life around.

I realize it's easy for me to say, not having to deal with it personally. But I don't think I could give up on one of my kids, especially after seeing the progress my nephew has made. I know everyone here loves their children, and we all do what we think is the right thing.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Aja, thanks for sharing your heartbreaking story. No I don’t think you were bad parents. The people in my life who have been honest about their struggle with drug addiction have really helped me. They are all good parents but kids have a mind of their own. Nothing is worse than losing a child. My friends that lost one were never the same. Mike, having worked in the field long term success rates for treatment are dismal and only slightly better if it’s alcohol only. Not everyone on this board has the money to pay for treatment once let alone multiple times. If a person wants to change their are plenty of free community resources they can utilize to help them recover. We can’t do it for them.

 

[Independent]

Independent, I see how easy it was to get sucked in because he wasn’t a obvious loser like my son. I hope you can stop enabling and find some peace.

The question for me is whether I am "enabling" anything.

That word suggests that if I just stopped sending money, he would discover some resivour of energy, kick himself in the butt, and become self supporting.

I wish that were true. But, when I spend time with him, that doesn't seem to be the fact. It's more likely that some combination of the underlying depression and the side effects of drugs sap his energy. He doesn't have the energy or emotional strength to do the things that he enjoys, much less to tackle the hard stuff.

 

[ivinsfan]

The question for me is whether I am "enabling" anything.

That word suggests that if I just stopped sending money, he would discover some resivour of energy, kick himself in the butt, and become self supporting.

I wish that were true. But, when I spend time with him, that doesn't seem to be the fact. It's more likely that some combination of the underlying depression and the side effects of drugs sap his energy. He doesn't have the energy or emotional strength to do the things that he enjoys, much less to tackle the hard stuff.

What will happen when you run out of money? I have a niece who I think is going to end up in same boat as your son. Only 21 and with over 5 years of therapy behind her. How does someone build emotional strength, I wish I knew the answer.

 

[Franklin]

This thread is so painful. I can relate to all posts. TT sorry for getting u to share the details but in an odd way it helped. I see my son in many of these posts and am conflicted with what to do. I have been an enabler but we are trying to remain firm and just say no to more money. Unfortunately I have a new grandchild from this equation to now think about.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Franklin,so many people have helped me by sharing and still are. I would like to pay it forward. A grandchild makes it harder but I have a friend that still has managed to stay out of it. Although like us she couldn’t afford to support all of them. Independent if you run out of money he can move in with you but what happens when you die? Is there enough money for his entire life? Since your son has a psychiatric diagnosis he can apply for SSI and low income housing, etc. He doesn’t need 40 quarters to qualify. Although his education will make it harder.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

A couple of my friends routinely talk about their kids and grandkids and how everything is "perfect" with their lives and families. That bothers me when I hear stories like that. Maybe they are not telling the whole story? That's what goes through my mind when they talk about how wonderful everything has been with their lives.

Some might be perfect, but over the years we have also found out that some of the families we know that had the most impressive Facebook posts and Christmas newsletters actually had some very serious tragedies brewing.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Somehow, DW and I ended up being the parents of two girls who are now in their 40's. One happily single by choice, one happily married. Both of them are great people and now our good friends, whom we are very proud of.


But we know other couples who seem to have done everything as well or better than us, and one or all of their kids are a mess. All we can do is be thankful and pray for those in difficult situations. It keeps me humble, because I know we were not perfect...

 

[Texas Proud]

In charge of all my parents' investment and bank accounts, so at least this situation will not happen.

This happened many years ago when my mom did not need my help... I know nothing has happened for the past decade...


I will just have to bite my lip when I have to send him the US savings bond she bought 28 or so years ago...

 

[Pellice]

Sending my best wishes to everyone in this thread who is working through these issues. There isn't "the solution" to be found, but you are all moving forward one way or another.

 

[Ginny]

My step son was into dealing meth, got arrested by the feds and was sentenced to 10 years in prison. He has been out 16 months, is working and has married to a wonderful woman. Miracles do happen. (Although they are rare.)

 

[redduck]

Thanks for all the stories. I feel like I can tell mine.

... I expect it was a genetic inclination toward depression interacting with the stress of law shool. And self-medicating with alcohol. …

AA is a Good Thing. He stays sober. But, the cycle of depression and joblessness goes on...

... he's still sober, seeing a therapist and a psychiatrist, the combination of the depression and the drugs make him incredibly tired. He's not working, we're still sending money.

Independent, I see how easy it was to get sucked in because he wasn’t a obvious loser like my son. I hope you can stop enabling and find some peace..

In this situation, I think Independent is being supportive of their son, not enabling. I'm just not seeing the enabling aspect here.

 

[FreeBear]

I lost my oldest daughter at 22 years old 6 years after DW and I were remarried when my daughter was a senior in college. Drug issue. Her funeral damn near killed me emotionally and I am not over it yet, and may never be. It hurts me to write this.

Wow, I'm so sorry... We attended a family funeral this spring. The guy was only 30-something; his parents are similarly devasted. A perfect storm of life-long psychological challenges running into self-mismanaged, life-ending illness. Seemingly the worse of all worlds. A couple of friends have lost kids and grandkids to drugs in their 20's or 30's.

All this has happened over a handful of years. We've been to an equal number of funeral for younger adults as for older folks and retirees.