I got a new prospective on the antiwork movement

[Time2]

This guy discusses people not going back to work and gave me a little more sympathy than I had. I'm not so sure about the 9 to 5 office job, but certainly any job that is using up your body. I was lucky, I had a pretty easy work life, until 2000 and we became self employed and I end up with back problems because of heavy lifting. Now retired 4 years, still having problems. Thinking about my dad, he used his body to earn a living, his work career was cut short by a heart attack, very likely job caused.

 

[MichaelB]

How about a short summary of the YouTube video so members have an idea of what the message is?

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I don't have the thread (I will look fpr it) but the "no one is working anymore" was shown to be a pretty big farce. I have seen where someone had posted a series of news articles about "this generation is too lazy to work!" that started in 2022 and went back to 1915'ish...repeating the same mantra about every 5-10 years. What's old is new again.

 

[JoeWras]

When I visit the antiwork sub on reddit, all I see are a bunch of complaints about Dumb Stuff Bosses Do. Something that has gone on forever. Yeah, even in the good old days (35 years ago) with the most progressive Megacorp out there, I had a boss who wouldn't let a co-worker take vacation (vacation days!) for his sister's funeral.

I don't get much insight from that reddit sub except that what has gone on for millennia is still going on today.

(BTW: our coworker had to dust off the company benefits book and show The Boss the rules on bereavement leave. A death of a sibling qualified. It turned out OK, but caused us all to scratch our heads, and it did explain other inexplicable decisions The Boss made.)

 

[Time2]

How about a short summary of the YouTube video so members have an idea of what the message is?

I thought I gave an explanation! It's about why young people have less incentive to work for what they consider underpay, and will not work longer hours to help the business at the cost of their free time.

 

[aja8888]

I thought I gave an explanation! It's about why young people have less incentive to work for what they consider underpay, and will not work longer hours to help the business at the cost of their free time.

I got as far as the welder's complaint about him making $20+ per hour and the company charging $200/hr for his time. (felt he wasn't paid enough based on the upcharge for his work)

Seems like he forgot that the company has costs of the business and that all that difference in billing rate was not pure profit. Also, the business has "risks" and those risks are insured thru the revenue from the billed rates.

I heard enough.

 

[Chuckanut]

When I visit the antiwork sub on reddit, all I see are a bunch of complaints about Dumb Stuff Bosses Do. Something that has gone on forever. Yeah, even in the good old days (35 years ago) with the most progressive Megacorp out there, I had a boss who wouldn't let a co-worker take vacation (vacation days!) for his sister's funeral.

I must have worked for his brother.

We were all working well over 40 hours a week (salaried so no OT pay).
One guy asked to take 1/2 day off to go to a relative's funeral. He got the OK, but when the boss reviewed his time sheet he told the employee he had to take 1/2 of a vacation day to cover his time off.

The employee exploded! In no uncertain terms he told the boss that he had already worked over 40 hours that week week even with the time off. Why in the world did he need to cover the time at the funeral with vacation days when he was already over 40 hours? The boss relented, I think because he feared we all might become clock watchers in retaliation.

 

[Car-Guy]

I thought I gave an explanation! It's about why young people have less incentive to work for what they consider underpay, and will not work longer hours to help the business at the cost of their free time.

I certainly see that happening in some of the younger folks in my extended family. In my day we'd call them bums or lazy, or at best, not willing to pay their dues... Or maybe it's work ethic?

 

[Chuckanut]

I thought I gave an explanation! It's about why young people have less incentive to work for what they consider underpay, and will not work longer hours to help the business at the cost of their free time.

Ah.... The devil is in the details, or at least a hint at what the details are.

 

[JoeWras]

Despite our opinions about youngsters putting in their time, and how we walked to our jobs in waist high snow... the kids have some valid points. Some.

And here's the thing: in this current employment environment, they can quit and move on to something else really easy. This is kind of fueling the monster a bit. I don't know how much, but it has to be a factor.

I think The Fed will be looking carefully at core inflation for upcoming action. They have said as much. Core will reflect any developing wage-price-spiral, which could be a risk. I know it has been said that automatic union raises were an issue in the last stagflation spiral, but what about the anti-workers who just say screw it and go to the next job at a higher wage? Could this cause a spiral? And will The Fed have to purposely induce employment scarcity to stop it?

Their "union" is social media, and it can't be completely discounted.

I don't know the answers. I'm just pondering.

 

[youbet]

And here's the thing: in this current employment environment, they can quit and move on to something else really easy.

.

Turnover isn't a major part of today's labor problems. People choosing not to work (either for themselves or for an employer) is. When people make no or little effort to support themselves, the pot of stew we should all be contributing to is smaller yet everyone still wants to dish themselves out a heaping bowl.

I think the seed of the problem began with COVID and the relief efforts made by our gov't. Many folks found themselves in a position where unemployment benefits + relief packages paid more than returning to work. That can be a hard thing to turn around.

 

[Gumby]

Probably not a single one of the 18 year old kids today would be willing to trade places with me at 18, given the respective hills we would need to climb. Yet here I am, a full fledged member of the rentier class enjoying my life.

Basic rule of adult life - first you work hard, then you get to play.

 

[stepford]

There's nothing new under the sun. I was lazy 50 years ago (and 40 and 30 and...).

 

[aaronc879]

I think it is long overdue for the worker, especially blue-collar worker, to stand up and say enough is enough. Paying them relatively low wages for the most difficult work while the owners are getting several times as much money has gone too far for too long.

 

[aaronc879]

I thought I gave an explanation! It's about why young people have less incentive to work for what they consider underpay, and will not work longer hours to help the business at the cost of their free time.

I don't think it had as much to do with free time as it did the physical toll that the extra hours puts on their bodies. People are starting to wise up and they see their older relatives who are in pain all the time and can't do much by the time they reach retirement age. It's smart of them to find a way to make that less likely to happen to them. Don't work yourself to death for relative peanuts so your boss can have a second house, a boat, and a 3rd car.

 

[OldShooter]

There is a reason that the labor market is called the labor market. Like any market, supply and demand will be continuously finding equilibrium. If potential employees are not attracted by the terms of employment I offer, I will have to change to some degree. If the terms of employment I want are not available and I can't afford to remain unemployed, I will have to change to some degree.

The speaker in the video doesn't understand how the market works for employers or for labor. Really it's a kind of a silly rant.

Probably the main things that have changed in the recent past are the improved communication among all market participants and the increased importance that workers attach to non-financial aspects of employment. So ... the equilibrium is shifting somewhat, but certainly not to the extent or with the stereotyping dramatized by the media.

 

[target2019]

I thought I gave an explanation! It's about why young people have less incentive to work for what they consider underpay, and will not work longer hours to help the business at the cost of their free time.

I felt your explanation was good enough. I didn't watch the video, though.

I do look at the antiwork sub-reddit, and find it mildly amusing. Many of the thoughts of the antiwork movement are very similar to my own. For example, I almost never worked for free at a lower wage. In fact, in my last job, which was the best, I asked the hiring manager about expected work hours. He was clear that under gov't contracts the company would have to pay me for each hour worked, and that I had no obligation to work more than 40 hours per week.

In my megacorp job though there was direction that hours from 41 through 45 were expected to be worked because you were salaried.
However, I knew from reading the contract that the company was not permitted to do this under the language of the specific contract. Another thing they did was hide your earned sick time. Eventually light shown on these things and had to be mitigated by the company.

 

[Koolau]

Due to Covid and other issues, it's now a "seller's market" for l*bor. The issues here are not new, but it's been a while since l*bor had this much relative power. That will change, and very likely on a dime if the "R-word" becomes a reality. No expert, so YMMV.

 

[youbet]

Don't work yourself to death for relative peanuts so your boss can have a second house, a boat, and a 3rd car.

No problem with that concept. But, how do you provide yourself with life's basics with no income coming in? Do we assume that those who are working will share (likely through taxes) the output of their work with those that chose not to work?

 

[JoeWras]

No problem with that concept. But, how do you provide yourself with life's basics with no income coming in? Do we assume that those who are working will share (likely through taxes) the output of their work with those that chose not to work?

I think an in depth discussion about this will lead to porky. Suffice it to say, true antiworkers really are looking for a complete change in the political and economic system currently in place. It isn't just about bad bosses or bad pay or overwork. The true movement is looking for a radical revolution.

Speaking of Porky, this subject fits well with the gripe thread about Bogleheads forum. Someone opened a thread over there just like this one and it was closed in exactly 31 minutes.

 

[old medic]

The speaker in the video doesn't understand how the market works for employers or for labor. Really it's a kind of a silly rant..

On Youtube? Say its not so..... Ive trusted them like main stream media and Twitter...

 

[Qs Laptop]

And here's the thing: in this current employment environment, they can quit and move on to something else really easy. This is kind of fueling the monster a bit. I don't know how much, but it has to be a factor.

Can confirm this is a thing. My youngest son graduated from college in December. One of his criteria for employment was fully remote work, meaning he would work from home, not go into the office. All of his roommates and friends insisted on the same thing. Ironically, it turns out most that jobs requiring coming into the office 5 days a week paid less than jobs that were partially remote (come in 2-3 days a week) and these partially remote jobs paid less than the fully remote jobs.

Not only that but he got a job in March and after a month wasn't too happy with the job. Out of the blue came a request for an interview with a company he applied to in February. It turns out the hiring manager had been on a month long vacation and was getting back up to speed. He switched to his new job the first week of May and he loves it. It pays almost $14K more than his first job.

This is the supply and demand of the job market you speak of and that OldShooter mentioned. There are tons of jobs out there and job seekers can be very picky or they can quit and move to a different job as they see fit.

Here in Minnesota the unemployment rate is 1.8%, the lowest of any state ever recorded, and there are 2.7 open jobs for every one available worker. Workers can literally pick and choose their job.

 

[ProspectiveBum]

Due to Covid and other issues, it's now a "seller's market" for l*bor. The issues here are not new, but it's been a while since l*bor had this much relative power. That will change, and very likely on a dime if the "R-word" becomes a reality. No expert, so YMMV.

Perhaps I haven’t had enough coffee yet this morning, but I can’t tease out what the R-word might be. Can I get a hint?

 

[JoeWras]

Perhaps I haven’t had enough coffee yet this morning, but I can’t tease out what the R-word might be. Can I get a hint?

Rhymes with succession.

 

[Time2]

I got as far as the welder's complaint about him making $20+ per hour and the company charging $200/hr for his time. (felt he wasn't paid enough based on the upcharge for his work)

Seems like he forgot that the company has costs of the business and that all that difference in billing rate was not pure profit. Also, the business has "risks" and those risks are insured thru the revenue from the billed rates.

I heard enough.

While I completely agree about the company has many expenses and you get paid for your work, if someone else pays more, move there. However this is a widely held thought that "the employer is making money on me" and for some reason they think that is wrong. Many younger people think capitalism puts them under the "mans" thumb!