Intermittent Fasting - Tips?

[audreyh1]

Haven't changed the type of food, am somewhat low carb but I have noticed that I have trouble eating 3 meals. Two and a snack or one & a couple snacks, just not enough time or hunger to eat more. But I am not aiming to reduce calories.

I’ve found that with two meals a day which is now typical for me, I have to add a more food to get sufficient protein. I sort of have snacks, but these are really just a second small course at the end of a meal rather than between meals.

I believe the big difference that I’m seeing is due to fasting, and more specifically pushing myself to stay in ketosis as long as possible everyday.

I eat very low carb which is easy for me just avoiding grains and some starchy vegetables, limited fruit. Net carbs typically under 25g, and rarely above 35g. As far as I can tell I’m in ketosis all the time. I’ve measured at different times of day, between meals etc. I think if you are low carb enough you stay in ketosis.

 

[Old Microbiologist]

I do both intermittent fasting and keto for 2 years now. I was doing One Meal a Day until I reached my goal weight of 78kg. Then I started eating a "snack" 3 hours before dinner. I strictly fast between 1900 and 1500 every day and only have black espresso with 1 tsp of MCT oil in the morning to get energy. I work out roughly 2 hours every morning with a weight routine 3 times a week. I switched from actual weights to elastic bands and don't regret it at all. My more recent goal is to do 10 pullups and 1 one-arm pullup. I am currently at 6 unassisted so the goal is within reach again. My body fat percentage I am keeping t 15% which is what is recommended for seniors. I want to get back into rock climbing again hence why I am trying to get back in shape again.

For the keto, I basically modified my usual recipes and substitute where possible. Here in Hungary, they haven't heard of keto but there are plenty of things around that work fine. I am able to stay under 20 grams carbs a day without any big problems. But, we don't eat in restaurants at all. My wife is not doing keto with me but I do 90% of the cooking so she is more or less doing it on her own. She has lost 15kg and now fits into clothes she hasn't worn for 20 years again. On the flip side when you lose a lot of weight your wrinkles get deeper. Personally, I don't care about it myself being a man and we generally look better as we age.

For my snack, I have 30 grams of popcorn,1 hard-boiled egg, 75 ml of bone broth, 200 grams of yogurt, 200 grams of aged goat cheese, and 200 grams of my homemade keto candy (mostly coconut oil and butter with unsweetened white chocolate, peanuts, sunflower seeds, stevia, and erythritol). I also drink 500 ml (or more) of 10% lemon juice (unsweetened) with stevia sometimes with gin and always with 1 TBSP of Epsom salts. I have the same every day no change. Food is not central to my life and is basically a necessity and tool. The meals are always a meat dish with green vegs (usually cabbage or broccoli) a salad (often cabbage) or sliced tomatoes with basil, onion, and mozzarella, olive oil, and balsamic vinegar. We eat fish every day as an appetizer which is either herring, homemade cold smoked salmon, or salmon eggs. Generally, we drink green tea but often have vodka with the herring (a Russian tradition). No bread, rice, potatoes, or noodles whatsoever for me although I will cook this for my wife when she asks for it. I found a noodle company here that has low-carb noodles (3 grams per 100 grams noodles) so use that if I am desperate (taste is not so great) or just use thinly sliced cabbage as noodles. We eat dinner precisely at 1800 and usually finish by 1830. I follow it up with my homemade yogurt (using bacteria of my own design) with erythritol. That is always the last thing I eat and it serves to colonize the mouth flora and teeth (prevents dental problems). I drink 2 liters of mineral water a day (at least) and 5 or 6 cups of coffee. I have one cup in the evening around 2000. I go to bed at 2330 and my wife at 0230. I get up at 0630 and she at 1000. She has her last cup of coffee with me (1tsp sugar) at 2000 and doesn't eat until 1100 or so. I fast roughly 20 hours a day and she is at around 15 hours. It isn't a big problem at all. It only requires discipline. I no longer crave sugar at all and my wife's blood glucose and HgBA1C are back to normal again. I have zero health problems (so far).

 

[NgineER]

I started IF because of some of the potential long term health benefits, these are my findings after two years.

I dropped from 180 lbs to 167 lbs 23.75 BMI to 22 BMI. My abs are more defined and I can suck my belly in below my rib cage which I hadn’t been able to do for at least 15 years. So I assume I have less visceral fat by that observation.

I find that low calorie diet is much harder than a complete fast. I’d much rather eat nothing for 24 hours vs eating 800 calories as I find any food intake makes me hungrier.

I do 16:8 four days a week, 24 hour fast twice a week and one day with breakfast each week. We did 36 hour fasts for a while but got cranky and couldn’t wait for bedtime. When I woke up I could usually go longer, but never tried it.

Overall I don’t think I eat less, but the 8 pm to noon fast prevents the late night ice cream or glass of wine which I think is somewhat responsible for the weight reduction.

I find that not having to stop for lunch on fasting days is helpful with time management The most difficult thing is when you are preparing as meal (for the kids) while fasting. Especially freshly baked bread.

I don’t change exercise regimen for fasting days, the fasting days usually concur with going in to the office, and in the summer I try to bike the 17 miles each way without a problem.

I found the longevity diet by Dr. Longo and life in the fasting lane by Dr. Fung insightful.

 

[KarenF]

Are there any of you who have been fasting - and so you changed up the timing of your food consumption, but not the type or volume of food consumed say...over day or week's timeframe? I've always been curious as to whether fasting alone can produce improvements in health parameters or weight loss without making any other adjustments?

I've just started all this, so too soon for me to tell.

I think I eat the same food/amount of food in 7 or 8 hours now and I have lost 8 pounds. I don't track calories though. I used to, before I started IF.

 

[chassis]

What I gather from many recent posts is that keto/intermittent fasting/time restricted eating is used for weight loss. It helps achieve weight loss by creating discipline around eating behaviors. Calories and quantity of food are mentioned, this brings up the notion of calories in-calories out, which is a principle of thermodynamics.

Agree?

What if discipline around eating, and calories in-calories out are established by some other means than keto/intermittent fasting/time restricted eating? Could that practice potentially have the same outcome (weight loss and eating behavior discipline)?

Is keto/intermittent fasting/time restricted eating a "diet" by another, much longer and fancy-sounding, name?

 

[captain3d]

I use intermittent fasting as part of marathon training. Yes to cut weight but also to exercise fasted so that the body becomes more active in using fat for energy.

If I did all my running using sugar I would not be prepared for the marathon distance where fat burning is needed to be successful

So weight loss and changing the bodies preffered fuel type is the result.

 

[FIREarly]

What I gather from many recent posts is that keto/intermittent fasting/time restricted eating is used for weight loss. It helps achieve weight loss by creating discipline around eating behaviors. Calories and quantity of food are mentioned, this brings up the notion of calories in-calories out, which is a principle of thermodynamics.

Agree?

Yes, agree, and way more. It's been a while since researching this topic but IF helps many areas of the body and life. This includes weight loss and beyond. Believe it helps mitigate/reduce cancer, heart attacks, and way more. NOT remove but very helpful at mitigating it proactively.

There is a nice book to read "How not to die" which is not about IF but how to mitigate some of the most common causes of death.

 

[EastWest Gal]

What I gather from many recent posts is that keto/intermittent fasting/time restricted eating is used for weight loss. It helps achieve weight loss by creating discipline around eating behaviors. Calories and quantity of food are mentioned, this brings up the notion of calories in-calories out, which is a principle of thermodynamics.

Agree?

What if discipline around eating, and calories in-calories out are established by some other means than keto/intermittent fasting/time restricted eating? Could that practice potentially have the same outcome (weight loss and eating behavior discipline)?

Is keto/intermittent fasting/time restricted eating a "diet" by another, much longer and fancy-sounding, name?

One cannot completely apply laws of thermodynamics to the human body. We don't actually burn calories, as in catch fire. It's not just what we eat. It's what our bodies do with what we eat. And we have gut bacteria that also metabolize what we eat. We have hormones that direct our energy metabolism and appetite, and we also have emotional triggers and habits.

Hormones such as insulin, glucagon, leptin, and ghrelin. Carbohydrates cause the pancreas to produce insulin. If we didn't produce insulin, we would die from hyperglycemia and diabetic ketoacidosis (which is not the same thing as ketosis!). Our insulin drives the glucose into cells, where we use it for energy, or convert it to fat for energy storage in the liver, abdomen and subcutaneous regions. Our bodies can also use ketones (betahydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate for energy, and ketones) Our heart uses acetoacetate for preferentially over glucose. Insulin drives metabolism of glucose first if we ingest carbohydrates, as it is critical for us to avoid hyperglycemia.

If we produce less insulin through the ketogenic diet and/or intermittent fasting, we must utilize fatty acids for energy preferentially. Ketogenic diet can reverse Type 2 diabetes, reduce blood pressure, and rapidly reduce fatty liver disease. Indian and Asian populations have less obesity than those of African and European descent, but the rate of diabetes there is very high. Ketogenic diet has been a known treatment for epilepsy since the 1930s. It may have a role in mental disorders and cancer prevention, as well as an adjunct for cancer treatment. Insulin promotes tumor growh.

"Numerous epidemiological and pre-clinical studies have demonstrated that the insulin/insulin-like growth factor (IGF) system plays a key role in the development and progression of several types of cancer."

-Front. Endocrinol., 15 May 2015 |

https://doi.org/10.3389/fendo.2015.00077

The ketogenic diet was developed in the 1930s to treat intractible epilepsy in children. It induces many neurohormonal changes which can have many positive effects. This paper from 9 years ago in Epilepsy Research Journal discusses this rather succinctly.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3244537/

 

[SunnyOne]

I essentially do a fat fast though which means some will say it’s not a true fast. The scale says otherwise. I drink at least 96 ozs water , have a bulletproof coffee around 11 and then 8 ozs of bone broth around lunch and dinner. Adds up to less than 500 cal/ a day while fasting. Fat does not effect your insulin/ blood sugar levels which is the whole point of fasting.

I have a question about this - is fat fasting just the bulletproof coffee and broth? thanks

 

[Vacation4us]

I essentially do a fat fast though which means some will say it’s not a true fast. The scale says otherwise. I drink at least 96 ozs water , have a bulletproof coffee around 11 and then 8 ozs of bone broth around lunch and dinner. Adds up to less than 500 cal/ a day while fasting. Fat does not effect your insulin/ blood sugar levels which is the whole point of fasting.

I have a question about this - is fat fasting just the bulletproof coffee and broth? thanks

Essentially no. Any fats would work like avocados,butter, MCT oil. You want to avoid all carbs and protein. I make the bone broth similar to Dr. Fungs recipe minus the peppers since I am not a fan. Getting used to the fat slick in the broth was a challenge for me. DH has always said I dissect my food. I don’t eat visible fat on steaks or chicken skin, it grosses me out.

I have BP coffee daily at 11 am but on non fasting days I add a scoop of vital proteins chocolate collagen. 1 tbsp of butter 2 tsp or 1 tbsp MCT oil. The MCT oil occasionally gives me heartburn, so sometimes I use less. Before I started using the bone broth I only had BP coffee and tea during the day. Adding the broth definitely makes it easier. Day 2 is always the hardest. Per Dr Fung you should avoid a 48 hour fast for this reason. Either do a 24 or a 72 or longer fast.

The worlds record for fasting is something like 370 days (was completed under Dr. supervision) The pt went from 400 lbs to less than 200 lbs during that time. A normal weight loss while fasting is about 1/2 a lb per day anything more is usually water and comes back post fasting.

Calories in calories out is bunk. Fasting doesn’t effect your metabolism while calorie restriction does. Look at the Biggest Loser most have regained the weight after 6 years because even though they eat less their metabolism is even lower.

Fasting leads to cellular renewal and can also help prevent cancers . Not only does Diabetes run in my family but cancer does too. I am a convert for sure.

Now I am also not perfect and like to vacation which leads to drinking and eating out but I have found coming home getting back on keto and then fasting for 3-5 days helps me shed the lbs quickly. I am determined that this is a way of life for me, and compared to 38 lbs ago I feel fantastic.

PS I started my walking regiment when I first retired in hopes of shedding the weight. Walked 4-6 miles a day and from November to February had walked 500 miles but lost zero weight and still felt crappy. I still walk 4-5 miles most days but I know the walking ie calories out didn’t help me to shed the lbs. Keto and fasting did.

 

[yakers]

There a lot of different 'diets' but IF/timed eating does not have to be one of them. I time my eating to control blood sugar, am not over weight and except for a very brief time 10+ years ago have never been. For me and a lot of folks timed eating is a WOE Way Of Eating. It is agnostic about calories, carbs and other nutrients although some advocates do have additional structures. The really great and new thing in all this is that there has always been issues about what to eat and how much to eat; that when we eat has such a significant impact is new to me and I think, most people.
I have been on keto a bit and I think it is OK but low carbs are enough for me. And having a length of time when I am not eating gives my body time to recover and keep blood sugar down as verified by a succession of A1C tests. There is absolutely no downside to timed eating,( one can get all the nutrition and follow various diets) except social. I find it very easy to do at home, rarely hungry. Lost some weight at first and had to add calories.

 

[chassis]

One cannot completely apply laws of thermodynamics to the human body. We don't actually burn calories, as in catch fire. It's not just what we eat. It's what our bodies do with what we eat. And we have gut bacteria that also metabolize what we eat. We have hormones that direct our energy metabolism and appetite, and we also have emotional triggers and habits.

Hormones such as insulin, glucagon, leptin, and ghrelin. Carbohydrates cause the pancreas to produce insulin. If we didn't produce insulin, we would die from hyperglycemia and diabetic ketoacidosis (which is not the same thing as ketosis!). Our insulin drives the glucose into cells, where we use it for energy, or convert it to fat for energy storage in the liver, abdomen and subcutaneous regions. Our bodies can also use ketones (betahydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate for energy, and ketones) Our heart uses acetoacetate for preferentially over glucose. Insulin drives metabolism of glucose first if we ingest carbohydrates, as it is critical for us to avoid hyperglycemia.

If we produce less insulin through the ketogenic diet and/or intermittent fasting, we must utilize fatty acids for energy preferentially. Ketogenic diet can reverse Type 2 diabetes, reduce blood pressure, and rapidly reduce fatty liver disease. Indian and Asian populations have less obesity than those of African and European descent, but the rate of diabetes there is very high. Ketogenic diet has been a known treatment for epilepsy since the 1930s. It may have a role in mental disorders and cancer prevention, as well as an adjunct for cancer treatment. Insulin promotes tumor growh.

"Numerous epidemiological and pre-clinical studies have demonstrated that the insulin/insulin-like growth factor (IGF) system plays a key role in the development and progression of several types of cancer."

-Front. Endocrinol., 15 May 2015 |

https://doi.org/10.3389/fendo.2015.00077

The ketogenic diet was developed in the 1930s to treat intractible epilepsy in children. It induces many neurohormonal changes which can have many positive effects. This paper from 9 years ago in Epilepsy Research Journal discusses this rather succinctly.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3244537/

@EastWest Gal I'm not following the point. You started talking about hormones, then went on to explain how the body works. But didn't make a point that was understandable to me. What are you trying to say?

What are you saying about one's caloric needs compared with one's caloric intake?

 

[NgineER]

One cannot completely apply laws of thermodynamics to the human body. We don't actually burn calories, as in catch fire. It's not just what we eat. It's what our bodies do with what we eat. And we have gut bacteria that also metabolize what we eat. We have hormones that direct our energy metabolism and appetite, and we also have emotional triggers and habits.

+1

What the life in the fasting lane argues is that your metabolism actually increases when you are fasting and you achieve a higher metabolism in general.

So it is not cut and dry energy in and energy out.

 

[chassis]

I get the feeling intermittent fasting/keto/time restricted eating is like Roth conversions.

It's an attempt to speed up the metabolism to "overburn" with the goal of weight loss. Yet could the weight loss experienced on this diet come from its disciplined approach to eating, assuming discipline wasn't formerly in practice prior to the IR/keto/TRE implementation?

Roth conversions are an attempt to pull a fast one on Uncle Sam.

The eating regimen being discussed seems like it is an attempt to pull a fast one on the human body. It's a chase after the wind.

Does anyone else agree with this?

 

[NgineER]

I think that our bodies weren’t designed to a constant flow of calories and lethargy.

There are other benefits to fasting as well in that your body’s hormonal levels normalize and the cells have time for autophagy.

 

[turbo89]

I’ve found that with two meals a day which is now typical for me, I have to add a more food to get sufficient protein. I sort of have snacks, but these are really just a second small course at the end of a meal rather than between meals.


I eat very low carb which is easy for me just avoiding grains and some starchy vegetables, limited fruit. Net carbs typically under 25g, and rarely above 35g. As far as I can tell I’m in ketosis all the time. I’ve measured at different times of day, between meals etc. I think if you are low carb enough you stay in ketosis.

I’m probably a polar opposite, I tried a keto diet a few years ago and realized that I love/eat more carbs than I thought, and ultimate didn’t stick with Keto dieting. Fasting seems to be a good compromise for me, we’re I get the keto benefits while still eating moderate amount of carbs in my 1 or 2 meals a day.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I get the feeling intermittent fasting/keto/time restricted eating is like Roth conversions.

It's an attempt to speed up the metabolism to "overburn" with the goal of weight loss. Yet could the weight loss experienced on this diet come from its disciplined approach to eating, assuming discipline wasn't formerly in practice prior to the IR/keto/TRE implementation?

Roth conversions are an attempt to pull a fast one on Uncle Sam.

The eating regimen being discussed seems like it is an attempt to pull a fast one on the human body. It's a chase after the wind.

Does anyone else agree with this?

I do see it the same way. I don't see myself ever going keto/intermittent fasting/time restricted eating. What I do is to restrict caloric intake, with carbs under 100g per day. I eat when I feel hungry and if I crave carbs in-between meals, I eat a cookie which has some carbs and fats. I try to eat until I am not hungry, and occasionally let myself eat until I am full when I am having something delicious. My BMI is under normal range - was 22 and want to be at 19 to 20. However, I wanted to lose 15 lbs. I was at 140lbs and now I am down to 133 lbs six months after I decided to lose some weigt. My goal is 125 lbs by middle of next year. No starvation, just balanced eating and with carb under 100gm.

 

[Markola]

This discussion is getting complicated and lost in minutia. What is an easy way to get 80% of the benefit of weight loss from 20% of the effort? The best I’ve heard above is “eat what you want between noon and 8.

 

[SunnyOne]

I've seen some refer to bulletproof coffee or using MCT oil in coffee - what's the "magic science" behind this ingredient? thanks....it's not just another dietary fat source?

 

[EastWest Gal]

Noon to eight works well for me. I don’t get hungry until about 2PM. The restriction after 8PM helps change evening snacking habits. I wake up by 7AM and have water, black coffee or tea in the morning.

Roughly ten years ago there was a fad diet of eating 200 calories 6 times a day. This is the opposite and mimics other animals on top of the food chain. For example, bears are omnivores and go long times without eating in a cyclic fashion. We were once hunter-gatherers before developing agriculture 10-12,000 years ago. Abundance of food is a relatively recent development. Processed food is even more recent. As a society we haven’t handled it very well.

 

[chassis]

My view of what some of us are saying is that keto/time restricted eating/intermittent fasting is a trick diet. Or a fad diet.

It's clear that many people believe they have improved their health or experienced weight loss on the trick diet. It could however be the case that the reason for health improvement or weight loss is through eating discipline.

Not through a complicated explanation of hormones and metabolic state, but rather just good 'ole fashioned don't eat more than your body needs (calories in-calories out).

 

[braumeister]

My view of what some of us are saying is that keto/time restricted eating/intermittent fasting is a trick diet. Or a fad diet.

It's clear that many people believe they have improved their health or experienced weight loss on the trick diet. It could however be the case that the reason for health improvement or weight loss is through eating discipline.

Not through a complicated explanation of hormones and metabolic state, but rather just good 'ole fashioned don't eat more than your body needs (calories in-calories out).

No, that is not at all what people are saying.
Your continual attempts to turn it into a CICO paradigm have been refuted time and time again in these threads, and it's looking more and more like trolling. You would be well advised to cut it out.

 

[chassis]

No, that is not at all what people are saying.
Your continual attempts to turn it into a CICO paradigm have been refuted time and time again in these threads, and it's looking more and more like trolling. You would be well advised to cut it out.

Hi braumeister. It's my view of what some posters are saying, is that the methods described are a trick diet. Clearly not all posters agree with this, and no one has stated such. I don't see it as trolling, I see it as presenting an alternate view. What do you think of presenting alternate views? It's just like Roth conversions. Not everyone agrees, and this is OK. Right?

 

[braumeister]

I don't see it as trolling, I see it as presenting an alternate view. What do you think of presenting alternate views?

Since you have been corrected many times on this by many forum members, and you keep dragging threads off-topic this way, it looks much more like trolling.

 

[audreyh1]

I've seen some refer to bulletproof coffee or using MCT oil in coffee - what's the "magic science" behind this ingredient? thanks....it's not just another dietary fat source?

Not needed at all. at best a distraction- red herring IMO. Just like the unnecessary fat bombs.

Medium chain triglycerides (MCT) are easily converted to ketones so some see benefit. But your body readily makes ketones from your own body fat once your daily carb intake drops low enough. Nothing wrong with using coconut oil which is high in MCTs, as part of your daily fats. But no need to drink it to boost ketones.