Irresponsible Son-In-Law With No Health Insurance

popntx

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I retired early last year and am confident that my wife and I have a secure retirement ahead. However, there is a different situation that I am not at all comfortable with.

My daughter and son-in-law are in their mid 30's and have 2 young children. She has a good job, and she and the kids are on health insurance thru her job. My son-in-law is self employed and makes a decent income. However, I've never felt that he was a very responsible person as far as "taking care of business" is concerned. He's always behind on paying his bills, and lives off of the cash that's in his pocket. He brought some debt and very bad credit ratings into the marriage and I'm not really sure where that currently stands. I've expressed my concerns about him with my daughter, and while she agrees she seems to have accepted him for who he is. Consequently, they are trying to get their financial house in order, although they seem to be making progress very slowly. They are currently trying to save money for a down payment on a house, and my wife and I have expressed our willingness to help them with that.

Anyway, I recently found out in a conversation with him and my daughter that he had decided a few months ago to discontinue his high deductible health insurance policy (that I insisted he get several years ago). He said he never discussed this decision with my daughter (they apparently don't talk about such important issues), and he wanted to focus on saving money for the house purchase.

I came down very hard on him about his decision and told him how irresponsible it is to choose not to have health insurance. I asked why he didn't get insurance thru my daughter's job and he said it was "too expensive". I asked him what would happen if for example he had the need for expensive surgery and he said "that won't happen". I said that I knew what would happen, that my wife and I would end up "bailing the out". He said that he would not expect us to do that, but if not us who would? His family has no money to speak of. I feel like I am his insurance policy!

It would be very easy for me to say that they are adults, it's their problem, and they should fully suffer the consequences of a bad decision. But I know better than that. I've read that medical expenses are the #1 cause of bankruptcies, and my wife and I would do anything, including jeopardizing our own retirement security, to help our daughter and grandkids in any way we could.

So, what to do? Do I continue to push the issue, knowing that it may affect my relationship with them by getting too much in their business? I've even considered giving them the money to pay for his health insurance, even though they can afford it themselves. Or, do I just bury my head in the sand, drop it and hope that nothing ever happens (which is my wife's preference)?
 
Let your nestlings fly

You've given them your unsolicited advice. That's enough. DD is in her mid-30s; that's a grown-up age.

We can learn from others teaching us. We can learn from our successes. Sometimes we don't learn until we fail, perhaps multiple times.

Loving parents don't ever stop worrying about their children. That's normal. It's also normal for adult children to make their own decisions and accept the consequences.

Pax vobiscum.
 
OP - Our situation is somewhat similar, although it is actually the reverse, the SIL is responsible with money, but DD is the other side of the coin. :eek:

They are making progress, and it is slow and bumpy, but honestly it's their life, so I just give advice (My opinion) , and then hope, and watch. :popcorn:

You have to realize you cannot control their lives, let's say the worst thing happened and SIL fell out of a tree and had $200,000 hospital bill. They would be bankrupt. So what.
As long as they did NOT pay any money out of their 401K/IRA/ROTH, their little bank accounts would be emptied. (Be sure to tell them NOT to pay medical bills from retirement funds, as they are protected in lawsuits).

They might lose $40,000 (as a rough guess).

Not really a big deal, and it would be a lesson they would remember forever.

It would be a HUGE mistake for you to be the $$$ backstop, as I can tell you there would never be an end to it, and you will lose all your money and go back to work.
Your retirement plan does NOT include supporting other family members.

There is also a 50% chance they will divorce, maybe higher as $$$ differences will grate on the relationship. So $$$ that you toss into the relationship, will go down with the ship when it sinks.
 
I can tell you from experience that once you become an enabler it never ends. It will become a lifelong situation. Life's lessons are best learned at a young age when the person has more options. Helping someone that is responsible is a totally different matter. You problem is not uncommon.
 
Not sure how anyone could offer better advice than the above posts. Maybe telling them not to use retirement funds to pay medical bills will help the bil to climb the maturity ladder.
 
Can't change other's behaviour no matter how hard you try. Actually pushing someone before they're ready to hear the message sometimes causes other issues.

My DF was an ex-smoker and was very vocal about it. When I smoked he was all in my face about it. I knew smoking was bad for me, I quit when I was ready, not him!
 
How much would insurance be for him? Would he qualify for a subsidy?

I just happened to have health sherpa opened and put in a 30 yo male and in our area bronz premiums are only ~$350/month... I know that sounds high when one is trying to save for a house, but still pretty good bankruptcy insurance.

It seems to me that avoiding bankruptcy and the impact it would have on the marriage and the kids would trump home ownership.... time for him to man up.
 
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I understand that as a parent and grand parent you would want to do anything for your children and grand children. However, you have to draw the line at jeopardizing your retirement. I suggest you get in your head a number you can afford if something was to happen and not go beyond that number. Sure, it’s great advice to say whatever happens they’ll learn their lesson, but being a grand parent, I totally get that is not the way it will be. You’ve said your piece and now all you can do is set your limit. Sucks that it’s that way, but it is.
 
Similar situation....a 30 something SIL who is very smart but takes financial risks (HI) that seem foolish and illogical.



Don't be the enabler (easy to say and hard to do where grandkids are involved)
 
Tht is why I try to keep abreast of DD/SIL's and DS's health insurance situation... it is as much wealth insurance for me as it is health insurance for them.

I can't imagine not coughing up if one of them were to get sick without health insurance... though in retrospect I guess it would be best to let them go bankrupt and then help them out post bankruptcy.
 
I've got a sister in law in a similar situation. 4000 sq ft house, decent car, frequent vacations, gives her young 20's children plenty of $$. But she "can't afford" the $100-200/mo for ACA subsidized health insurance (she's low income per her AGI on her 1040 - somewhere between 200-250% of Federal Poverty Level IIRC).

I guess she'll just go to the emergency room if she gets really sick and hope that they can patch her up good enough.
 
Very good advice in all of the above posts. Just a note about the medical-caused bankruptcies. It turns out that only 4% of bankruptcies are true medical bankruptcies. The other 96% of bankruptcies have medical bills that are included in the bankruptcy but are not the primary cause. What medical problems can cause is loss of income due to inability to work. The loss of income then causes an inability to pay any bill, including medical bills. A better solution to the "bankruptcy" problem might be mandatory disability insurance.
 
You've given them your unsolicited advice. That's enough. DD is in her mid-30s; that's a grown-up age.

We can learn from others teaching us. We can learn from our successes. Sometimes we don't learn until we fail, perhaps multiple times.

Loving parents don't ever stop worrying about their children. That's normal. It's also normal for adult children to make their own decisions and accept the consequences.

Pax vobiscum.
Very nicely said.
 
I

Anyway, I recently found out in a conversation with him and my daughter that he had decided a few months ago to discontinue his high deductible health insurance policy (that I insisted he get several years ago). He said he never discussed this decision with my daughter (they apparently don't talk about such important issues), and he wanted to focus on saving money for the house purchase.


So your daughter knows about his plans? What did she say or do? In the end, she'll get what she tolerates. If it's important to her, she him on her insurance plan. The money is deducted out of the paycheck, and the family lives of whatever is left.



In the end, though, I agree with the others that it's really your daughter's family and, therefore, her responsibility. Is it possible that you care about the issue more than DD and SIL? Year ago a wise friend reminded me that the person with the LEAST interest has controlling interest.



OP - Our situation is somewhat similar, although it is actually the reverse, the SIL is responsible with money, but DD is the other side of the coin. :eek:

They are making progress, and it is slow and bumpy, but honestly it's their life, so I just give advice (My opinion) , and then hope, and watch. :popcorn:

You have to realize you cannot control their lives, let's say the worst thing happened and SIL fell out of a tree and had $200,000 hospital bill. They would be bankrupt. So what.
As long as they did NOT pay any money out of their 401K/IRA/ROTH, their little bank accounts would be emptied. (Be sure to tell them NOT to pay medical bills from retirement funds, as they are protected in lawsuits).

They might lose $40,000 (as a rough guess).

Not really a big deal, and it would be a lesson they would remember forever.

It would be a HUGE mistake for you to be the $$$ backstop, as I can tell you there would never be an end to it, and you will lose all your money and go back to work.
Your retirement plan does NOT include supporting other family members.

There is also a 50% chance they will divorce, maybe higher as $$$ differences will grate on the relationship. So $$$ that you toss into the relationship, will go down with the ship when it sinks.




+1 spot on!


For many people, bankruptcy is somewhat routine. I know somebody that was always paycheck to paycheck, and owned thousands on credit cards, in the typical American fashion. He was enabled by parents who bailed him out periodically. Fast forward several years, he stumbled on a huge (for him) windfall, maybe a few hundred grand. He bought everything in sight including a McMansion. Filed for bankruptcy a few years later. Now the credit clouds are clearing many years later, and the foolishness is starting again. This guy would be toast without social security. Even with SS, major cutbacks are coming...
 
It would be very easy for me to say that they are adults
They are both in their mid-30s. Yes, of course they are adults.

my wife and I would do anything, including jeopardizing our own retirement security, to help our daughter and grandkids in any way we could.
Of course that is your choice.

So, what to do? Do I continue to push the issue, knowing that it may affect my relationship with them by getting too much in their business?
If you value your relationships, back off. Let them live their own lives.
 
So, what to do? Do I continue to push the issue, knowing that it may affect my relationship with them by getting too much in their business?

No. Mind your own business, if you're at all concerned with maintaining a good relationship with your daughter and grand-kids. Believe me, if you continue meddling in their affairs, eventually their kids will notice and may form an unfavorable opinion of their grandfather. Listen to your wife.
 
No. Agree with the others about not bailing out. In the long run that is more harmful than letting them suffer the consequences of this decision that the son in law made.
 
I am with all the others... I would never pay off medical bills because they did not carry insurance... just like I would not buy them a car if they did not carry auto...


The only help I would give is if he was killed and DD needed money to live and they did not have life insurance... but that would be limited until she could change her lifestyle to fit her income.... or her income to fit her lifestyle...
 
Sorry you have this situation. Feel free to vent her on the forum. .....Imho you cannot fix this. Let it go. Sounds like you would take in daughter and grandkids if they really fell on hard times, that is good enough
 
Offer to pay his monthly premium, or ever their whole family? That would be cheaper.
 
Offer to pay his monthly premium, or ever their whole family? That would be cheaper.

Then he would have to pay for the rest of his life. Good plan for the heart, but not the wallet.
 
Offer to pay his monthly premium, or ever their whole family? That would be cheaper.




BAD imo.... do not get the used to you paying for anything that you feel is 'needed' as they can stop paying for it expecting you to do so...


BTW, the chance of any major thing happening to a 30yo is small... so he might get away with it...


BUT, why does he not buy catastrophic insurance?
 
#1 Rule of Life....

You can't control other people.

The government tries to do that at times. It takes big concrete buildings, doors and windows with iron bars, fancy electronics, and big guys with guns. Even then it only works sometimes.

Save your money to help put your grandchildren through college. It sounds like they may need the help. That is one of the best and loving things you can do.
 
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I would officially retract the offer to help with a downpayment on a house, given he has discontinued health insurance. Then you just have to let them live their lives. If an accident or surgery bankrupts them, that is ok. It happens to a lot of people.
 
I can tell you from experience that once you become an enabler it never ends. It will become a lifelong situation. You problem is not uncommon.

+1 We're onto our third generation of leeches (DW's side).

We're fortunate that our pockets are deep enough to handle the load but I wish I had a buck for every $100 we sent to these slugs. They cost us about $10K a year buying their necessities so that they can buy top-line iPhones, video games and 400 channels of TV movies.

I gave up fighting this battle 30 years ago and DW now realizes that I was right all along but it's way too late; now, a new baby needs 'stuff' in another endless need-hole that will go on another 20 more years.

OP, how is tacking onto DD's HI 'too expensive'? (Save yourself! Get out while you can!!)
 

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