Irresponsible Son-In-Law With No Health Insurance

[Teacher Terry]

Slow, I totally agree with you.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I don’t think DD needs her husband’s permission or any action on his part to put him on her employer’s HI. Suggest to her she do that and then let it go.

 

[FreeBear]

Save your money to help put your grandchildren through college. It sounds like they may need the help. That is one of the best and loving things you can do.

And don't tell anyone, maybe not even DD, that you are putting funds aside! Then you can decide at any time, and on any of YOUR terms, on how your grand kids are helped out.

We're fortunate that our pockets are deep enough to handle the load but I wish I had a buck for every $100 we sent to these slugs. They cost us about $10K a year buying their necessities so that they can buy top-line iPhones, video games and 400 channels of TV movies.

We have a friend like this. We helped to a tune of thousands of dollars, and gladly so, at the time. He blew it living large and ended up bankrupt in a few years. We learned our lesson. We'll listen and "be supportive", but no cash or sweat equity/free labor. Maybe like the OP, we are too nice, and we have to remind ourselves to step back from situations and let them unfold or unravel.

 

[Dtail]

I would officially retract the offer to help with a downpayment on a house, given he has discontinued health insurance. Then you just have to let them live their lives. If an accident or surgery bankrupts them, that is ok. It happens to a lot of people.

I like this idea.
My DS is single, but not really communicative with me, so no monies at all thrown his way. Different situation, but the concept is not to be an enabler.

 

[MuirWannabe]

In the end, though, I agree with the others that it's really your daughter's family and, therefore, her responsibility. Is it possible that you care about the issue more than DD and SIL? Year ago a wise friend reminded me that the person with the LEAST interest has controlling interest ...

I like that last line. Although I’d never heard it before, I’ve found it to be quite true.

 

[jollystomper]

It would be very easy for me to say that they are adults, it's their problem, and they should fully suffer the consequences of a bad decision. But I know better than that. I've read that medical expenses are the #1 cause of bankruptcies, and my wife and I would do anything, including jeopardizing our own retirement security, to help our daughter and grandkids in any way we could.

So, what to do? Do I continue to push the issue, knowing that it may affect my relationship with them by getting too much in their business? I've even considered giving them the money to pay for his health insurance, even though they can afford it themselves. Or, do I just bury my head in the sand, drop it and hope that nothing ever happens (which is my wife's preference)?

If you really feel that way, the best you can do is just bite the bullet now and pay for his health insurance. At least it will be a known expense you can work into your retirement expenses, instead of having to deal with a surprise rescue.

However, if you choose to go this route, you need to do it cheerfully and with no regrets. Do not push the issue. Do not expect him to change. Otherwise, every time you pay his insurance bill, you will have resentment. Every time you see them spending money on something, you will have resentment. At that is going to hurt you much more that it will hurt him.

Maybe, in the future, he will realize his mistake. But do not count on it.

 

[Bamaman]

Our son in law had a high tech and large car repair business. He lived like a king, with numerous new cars, big house with pool and two drag cars. Grandkids had every dream toy like ATV's and 4x4 trucks. He was a tax fraud--not reporting 10% of his income so he could get Food Stamps. And his family was uninsured.

When the SIL got sick, he self medicated on illegal substances. We figure he spent $200K+ cash on drugs prior to visiting a doctor who told him he had multiple myeloma--cancer of the red drug cells. Somehow he got on his wife's job health insurance and hit them up for a bone marrow transplant. Unfortunately, it was too late. He died of amyloidosis at age 50.

My point is that those without healthcare insurance do not take very good care of themselves, and they're much more apt to have cancers and other diseases that they cannot diagnosis themselves. And self medication does not work. They are also often without life insurance, disability insurance and other methods of taking care of their family in case something happens to them. That's very irresponsible.

 

[popntx]

Thanks so much for all of the feedback. It feels great to vent on this forum. I've gotten several great suggestions that I'd like to "quote" and respond to each one individually but am still kind of new to this and haven't figured out how to insert multiple quotes within a response.

So, generally speaking the consensus seems to be to just drop it and not risk alienating my DD and SIL, and I think this is the route I'll take. It was also suggested that I pay for the insurance, which is something I already thought about doing but don't really like the idea. Yes, this would be cheaper for me IF something bad happened and IF we bail them out. But this is also just another form of enabling.

Someone asked why doesn't he just get catastrophic insurance. This is what he had and decided to discontinue. I think he said his premium was around $300/month which I thought was very reasonable.

It was also suggested that if he continues with the poor decision to not have insurance, that we not help with a down payment on a home. I've thought of this as well but have mixed feelings about it. I'm not sure that I would want to tie that kind of condition to the gift, although I can see that it does have some merit. I'll have to give it some more thought.

Again, thanks for all of the very constructive feedback, and it's nice to know that there are others that have faced some similar situations!

 

[REWahoo]

... I'd like to "quote" and respond to each one individually but am still kind of new to this and haven't figured out how to insert multiple quotes within a response.

Excuse deleted : Multiple Quote Feature Explained

 

[Texas Proud]

+1 We're onto our third generation of leeches (DW's side).

We're fortunate that our pockets are deep enough to handle the load but I wish I had a buck for every $100 we sent to these slugs. They cost us about $10K a year buying their necessities so that they can buy top-line iPhones, video games and 400 channels of TV movies.

I gave up fighting this battle 30 years ago and DW now realizes that I was right all along but it's way too late; now, a new baby needs 'stuff' in another endless need-hole that will go on another 20 more years.

OP, how is tacking onto DD's HI 'too expensive'? (Save yourself! Get out while you can!!)

I have no problem helping out once or twice... but after that they are leeches and I refuse to support a leech...


I have not talked to a nephew for over 20 years because every conversation included him asking for money... one of my sisters and me were just talking about that the other day when we were going through my mom's stuff and saw checks made out to him... he was able to mooch off of his grand ma.... OH, and Australia and New Zealand... but Australia is after him now for lying on his paperwork for many years...


A mooch is a mooch is a mooch and will never change... they will only look for other victims.... I refuse to be one...

 

[gauss]

... I came down very hard on him about his decision and told him how irresponsible it is to choose not to have health insurance. I asked why he didn't get insurance thru my daughter's job and he said it was "too expensive". I asked him what would happen if for example he had the need for expensive surgery and he said "that won't happen". I said that I knew what would happen, that my wife and I would end up "bailing the out". He said that he would not expect us to do that, but if not us who would? His family has no money to speak of. I feel like I am his insurance policy!

It would be very easy for me to say that they are adults, it's their problem, and they should fully suffer the consequences of a bad decision. But I know better than that. I've read that medical expenses are the #1 cause of bankruptcies, and my wife and I would do anything, including jeopardizing our own retirement security, to help our daughter and grandkids in any way we could.

Since it appears that your SIL knows exactly where you stand on this, he is behaving quite rationally IMHO.

He probably won't need major medical expenses at his age, and if he does, he knows that you will do anything, including jeopardizing your own retirement, to bail them out.

It sounds like they don't have many assets that would be lost if a bankruptcy were to indeed occur, despite your best efforts to not let that happen (either through nudging or bailing out).

If it were me, I would let them grow up and learn from their own mistakes.

Are we going to have this same conversation when they are in their mid-forties?

-gauss

 

[Chuckanut]

Here is another trick. Take all your money and invest it in an immediate annuity. Once annuitiezed it’s gone from your account and you can’t give it to anybody.

I actually know of an older lady who was an easy touch for her two spendthrift children, who did this. The next time the kids asked her for money (usually $10,000+ back then) she explained she was powerless to get at much more than her monthly check. So I am told by her nephew who masterminded this scheme. [emoji2][emoji31][emoji57][emoji37][emoji6][emoji15][emoji846]

 

[HarveyS]

what's next?

Agree that they are on their own at this stage. I would not cover their premiums.

But, if you do, will you cover the co-pay? How about the deductible? And then the prescriptions? In other words, where will it end?

 

[Teacher Terry]

I would not gift a down payment on a house they could lose due to medical bills.

 

[MarieIG]

I would talk to your daughter about putting her husband on HER HEALTH INSURANCE. That's what it's there for. I would not pay for it.

If they get hit with huge medical bills, let them declare bankruptcy. One bankrupt household is better than two.

You are not helping your daughter and grandkids by throwing money down the drain.
`
You can do targeted things for the grandchildren. Pay for tutors, or a class trip or horseback riding, or a winter coat. Bring over some groceries.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

If it were me I would just pay the premiums. We offered to do that when one of our kids had a contract job with no insurance. The unexpected happened, and that insurance covered medical expenses that were literally life saving. We talk about often now in hindsight that was one of the best decisions we ever made.

It is not just about bankruptcy in the U.S. Hospital stays and surgery are crazy expensive, and don't you need either payment upfront or insurance for most treatments like chemo or a kidney transplant? What would you do if one of your grandkids needed a kidney transplant? If you would pay for it anyway, then insurance is going to be a lot cheaper and let you sleep better at night than shelling out 6 figures for non-negotiated hospital and surgery rates or setting up a go fund me page.

 

[Texas Proud]

BTW, even if hit with a big bill the hospital will let you pay over time...


There is a girl at the gym who did not have insurance (said it was expensive also) but had been paying 15 years for something that happened to her years ago... just got it paid off when she got pancreatitis and now has a bill again... not sure how much but some people were talking about it...

 

[Sunset]

If it were me I would just pay the premiums. We offered to do that when one of our kids had a contract job with no insurance. The unexpected happened, and that insurance covered medical expenses that were literally life saving. We talk about often now in hindsight that was one of the best decisions we ever made.

It is not just about bankruptcy in the U.S. Hospital stays and surgery are crazy expensive, and don't you need either payment upfront or insurance for most treatments like chemo or a kidney transplant? What would you do if one of your grandkids needed a kidney transplant? If you would pay for it anyway, then insurance is going to be a lot cheaper and let you sleep better at night than shelling out 6 figures for non-negotiated hospital and surgery rates or setting up a go fund me page.

The mother ( DD ) has insurance, it's just the dumb husband that has no insurance, the DD is insured and so should her kids.

I'm pretty sure the DD could add the hubby to the insurance far cheaper than buying outside insurance.

This is not a case of not having insurance, this is a case of cheap SIL wanting to buy beer/etc instead of insurance.

 

[Sunset]

Remember earlier I said how my DD was bad at $$$ and her hubby was good at $$$.

Well, I could have thrown money at them so they could buy a place, but I didn't. I let them rent in a crappy apt, in a lower class neighborhood, ok a pretty scummy neighborhood (but not gang shooting type).
They rented for years.. and years...
Finally she stopped blowing money on wasteful stuff, well at least blowing less on stupid stuff.

They bought a house, I didn't have to help them to do it.

DD told me, she is so happy , and that she has learned to be better about $$ from her hubby..

Had I thrown money at them, solved their problems, they would still be in the scummy apt, but driving nicer cars

 

[daylatedollarshort]

The mother ( DD ) has insurance, it's just the dumb husband that has no insurance, the DD is insured and so should her kids.

I'm pretty sure the DD could add the hubby to the insurance far cheaper than buying outside insurance.

This is not a case of not having insurance, this is a case of cheap SIL wanting to buy beer/etc instead of insurance.

Okay, sorry I missed the part about the kids. I would still offer to pay it. Substitute SIL for one of the grandkids in my earlier post and for me it would be the same decision. If their dad died because of no insurance, it is going to be a lot more heart breaking and expensive helping the daughter raise the kids than it is keeping health insurance on someone relatively young.

 

[ckelly78z]

As hard as it is to hear, we all must blaze our own path in life, and adversity is what makes us grow up to maturity. Help your daughter with what makes you comfortable, and still secure. Sometimes bankruptcy is a wakeup call that some people need as a kick start.

 

[marko]

I have no problem helping out once or twice...

That's how it started out with us 30 years ago. DW's only sister.

A hundred bucks here, a hundred there. Just this once. Then an 'exception'. Then an emergency. Then "money by Thursday or they get evicted". Then "they need the car fixed so they can get to work (you want them to work, don't you?)". Then a divorce. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.......

Now we're paying a nephew's college tuition (he's a good kid and might actually make something of himself) but once he gets out there'll be first/last month rent someplace. And a car.

Niece just had a baby. Baby needs new shoes! And new mommy wants a wedding. (and a third new iPhone because 'they keep breaking')

Yes, sadly, we're enablers. I gave up on it long ago; it's only money.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Texas Proud]

That's how it started out with us 30 years ago. DW's only sister.

A hundred bucks here, a hundred there. Just this once. Then an 'exception'. Then an emergency. Then "money by Thursday or they get evicted". Then "they need the car fixed so they can get to work (you want them to work, don't you?)". Then a divorce. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.......

Now we're paying a nephew's college tuition (he's a good kid and might actually make something of himself) but once he gets out there'll be first/last month rent someplace. And a car.

Niece just had a baby. Baby needs new shoes! And new mommy wants a wedding. (and a third new iPhone because 'they keep breaking')

Yes, sadly, we're enablers. I gave up on it long ago; it's only money.

Sorry for the rant.

No problem with the rant... but even with what you say I would have cut them off... I am OK with a $20 here or there, but not a $100....


I would also tell them the need to have an emergency fund set up... and the third time or so they asked I would say 'what happened to that emergency fund?'....


My best friend has a sister who is one who cannot handle money... all of her family have refused to help... she limps along... (to be fair, not sure if her adult child helps or not)....

 

[marko]

I would also tell them the need to have an emergency fund set up... and the third time or so they asked I would say 'what happened to that emergency fund?'....
....

Tell them to set up an emergency fund!?
These are people who won't open their mail for 6 weeks because the bill collectors letters upset them.
Their idea of an emergency fund is $5 tacked to the wall to tip the pizza delivery guy.

 

[Sojourner]

Niece just had a baby. Baby needs new shoes! And new mommy wants a wedding. (and a third new iPhone because 'they keep breaking')

Yes, sadly, we're enablers. I gave up on it long ago; it's only money.

So you've been giving them—and will continue to give them—vast amounts of money, routinely, for luxuries like fancy weddings and multiple, expensive iPhones?? I find that almost beyond belief. Surely you know that your extreme level of "enablement" has completely robbed these people of any ability to be self-sufficient. As much as you bemoan these leeches, don't you feel a substantial amount of responsibility for this shameful situation?

Sorry if I sound judgmental. I just cannot fathom how anyone on this board, who has been financially prudent enough to ER, would squander money so extensively and consistently over multiple decades.