Is a dilute bleach solution a satisfactory hand cleaner for COVID?

[NW-Bound]

I drove to my mother's home, which was 5 miles away, to share with her some bleach for her to dilute out to make hand sanitizer when she needed to go out. She does not have any bleach.

I kept reiterating to her time and time again for the last month that she needed to remember not to put her hands to her face except after they were washed and she was safely inside her home. I don't know if she will remember, but I just have to try to drill it into her.

 

[Ready]

I drove to my mother's home, which was 5 miles away, to share with her some bleach for her to dilute out to make hand sanitizer when she needed to go out. She does not have any bleach.

I kept reiterating to her time and time again for the last month that she needed to remember not to put her hands to her face except after they were washed and she was safely inside her home. I don't know if she will remember, but I just have to try to drill it into her.

I don’t think you are supposed to use bleach to make hand sanitizer. That is very dangerous for your skin. Did you mean isopropyl alcohol?

 

[NW-Bound]

No, it's diluted bleach. I have been using it on my hands for more than a week now whenever I got out of the store and before I got back in the car. Perhaps on 5 occasions. No ill effect so far.

PS. See my earlier post at #367. Initially, I even used it full-strength, then realized that it was way, way overkill. Still did not hurt the skin of my hands. No effect whatsoever, except for the smell, which I am used to now, and love it. It smells so clean.

 

[Ready]

No, it's diluted bleach. I have been using it on my hands for more than a week now whenever I got out of the store and before I got back in the car. Perhaps on 5 occasions. No ill effect so far.

PS. See my earlier post at #367. Initially, I even used it full-strength, then realized that it was way, way overkill. Still did not hurt my skin.

That is very dangerous, even if diluted.

https://www.healthline.com/health/bleach-on-skin

 

[NW-Bound]

That is very dangerous, even if diluted.

https://www.healthline.com/health/bleach-on-skin

Thanks for the info. Here's why I believe what I do is safe.

The main ingredient in bleach is sodium hypochlorite. While chlorine as a gas is extremely dangerous, and was even used as a chemical weapon in bombs in WWI, sodium hypochlorite is commonly used today in swimming pools as a disinfectant.

The concentration in pool water is a lot lower, but people submerge their entire body in it for hours, and day after day for avid swimmers and athletes. And they may even swallow some inadvertently. The diluted bleach I used on my hands is stronger, but I wipe it off with a paper towel, and the exposure is brief. If I leave my hands dunk in undiluted bleach for several minutes, it will etch the skin.

 

[ERD50]

No, it's diluted bleach. I have been using it on my hands for more than a week now whenever I got out of the store and before I got back in the car. Perhaps on 5 occasions. No ill effect so far.

PS. See my earlier post at #367. Initially, I even used it full-strength, then realized that it was way, way overkill. Still did not hurt the skin of my hands. No effect whatsoever, except for the smell, which I am used to now, and love it. It smells so clean.

At those concentrations, what is the contact time required to kill the virus? How does it compare to 20 seconds of plain soap and water?

I personally hate strong bleach smell, I seem to be hyper sensitive to it, and it lingers. It interferes with my ability to enjoy food for many hours.

-ERD50

 

[Ready]

Thanks for the info. Here's why I believe what I do is safe.

The main ingredient in bleach is sodium hypochlorite. While chlorine as a gas is extremely dangerous, and was even used as a chemical weapon in bombs in WWI, sodium hypochlorite is commonly used today in swimming pools as a disinfectant.

The concentration in pool water is a lot lower, but people submerge their entire body in it for hours, and day after day for avid swimmers and athletes. And they may even swallow some inadvertently. The diluted bleach I used on my hands is stronger, but I wipe it off with a paper towel, and the exposure is brief. If I leave my hands dunk in undiluted bleach for several minutes, it will etch the skin.

There is no evidence that what you are doing is effective against COVID-19. The universally accepted method for protecting yourself is soap and water for 20 seconds. Even hand sanitizer is less effective than soap and water even though it has a high concentration of alcohol. Please consider what you are doing here for your own health and safety.

 

[NW-Bound]

I need to look up that clinical paper again, where the researcher found that the 5ppm pool water killed the SARS virus after so many minutes. Since my solution is so much stronger, I would assume that a few seconds would suffice. In addition, as I do not rinse it off, there's residue on the skin.

When I get home from the store, I wash my hands again using soap and water.

Yes, the smell is there, but it does not bother me.

 

[NW-Bound]

There is no evidence that what you are doing is effective against COVID-19. The universally accepted method for protecting yourself is soap and water for 20 seconds. Even hand sanitizer is less effective than soap and water even though it has a high concentration of alcohol. Please consider what you are doing here for your own health and safety.

See my post above about the study of pool water against the SARS virus, which is also a coronavirus.

In fact some now claim that bleach is so strong, using it is like using a bludgeon to kill a fly.

I don't want the inconvenience and awkwardness of using soap and water at the parking lot of a store.

 

[Gumby]

There is no evidence that what you are doing is effective against COVID-19. The universally accepted method for protecting yourself is soap and water for 20 seconds. Even hand sanitizer is less effective than soap and water even though it has a high concentration of alcohol. Please consider what you are doing here for your own health and safety.

I can't believe that you really believe bleach is not effective against SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19 disease). Here is one official resource that says it is. https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/list-n-disinfectants-use-against-sars-cov-2
There are many more. You might try google to double check.


It's bleach, for God's sake. It kills everything.

 

[Ready]

I can't believe that you really believe bleach is not effective against SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19 disease). Here is one official resource that says it is. https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/list-n-disinfectants-use-against-sars-cov-2
There are many more. You might try google to double check.


It's bleach, for God's sake. It kills everything.

Your link suggests that a solution of 100% bleach can kill the virus after one minute. It says nothing about diluting the bleach and then rinsing your hands with it. Even hand sanitizer has been proven ineffective if the percentage of alcohol in the mix is less than 67%.

 

[NW-Bound]

Again, I need to find that clinical paper showing a solution of 5ppm will kill the SARS virus.

5 part per million! That's my pool water.

 

[Gumby]

Again, I need to find that clinical paper showing a solution of 5ppm will kill the SARS virus.

5 part per million! That's my pool water.

That might be helpful to those reading the thread. Our interlocutor, Ready, appears to have a closed mind.

This might be a start

For disinfection, diluted household bleach solutions, alcohol solutions with at least 70% alcohol, and most common EPA-registered household disinfectants should be effective.
Diluted household bleach solutions can be used if appropriate for the surface. Follow manufacturer’s instructions for application and proper ventilation. Check to ensure the product is not past its expiration date. Never mix household bleach with ammonia or any other cleanser. Unexpired household bleach will be effective against coronaviruses when properly diluted.
Prepare a bleach solution by mixing:
5 tablespoons (1/3rd cup) bleach per gallon of water or
4 teaspoons bleach per quart of water

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/cleaning-disinfection.html


Normal bleach from the store is a 6% solution = 60,000 ppm. 1 TBSP is 1/2 ounce. One gallon is 128 ounces. So (5 TBSP x .5 oz/TBSPx 60,000ppm)/(128 oz water + 2.5 oz bleach solution) = 1149.4 ppm

Stronger than your pool water, but far from pure 100% bleach.

 

[NW-Bound]

Darn, I already posted the link here, but have to find it again.

There are too many posts, including mine.

PS. By the way, diluted bleach is used in hospitals as a disinfectant.

 

[Ready]

That might be helpful to those reading the thread. Or interlocutor, Ready, appears to have a closed mind.

No, I don’t have a closed mind. But NW-BOUND is the only person I am aware of who is suggesting using a diluted bleach rinse on their hands in lieu of alcohol based hand sanitizer or soap and water. So for me to believe what he is saying I would need to disregard the advice of virtually every doctor, scientist and health expert in the world who has universally said that the best defense against this virus is soap and water, followed by alcohol based hand sanitizer.

If you are going to propose something that nobody else has validated, is it not unreasonable for me to ask why, and what data you are using to validate this suggestion?

I have no idea what 5ppm study he is referring to. I have no concern about catching the virus in a swimming pool because the virus is being constantly submerged in the chlorine solution. But a bleach solution you pour over your hands is only on your hands for at most a few seconds before it drips away or evaporates. They are completely different scenarios. If the study suggests a hand rinse is effective I would love to see it. If not, I think it can be dangerous to suggest this is an effective solution to a public forum where others may follow this advice.

 

[Gumby]

No, I don’t have a closed mind. But NW-BOUND is the only person I am aware of who is suggesting using a diluted bleach rinse on their hands in lieu of alcohol based hand sanitizer or soap and water. So for me to believe what he is saying I would need to disregard the advice of virtually every doctor, scientist and health expert in the world who has universally said that the best defense against this virus is soap and water, followed by alcohol based hand sanitizer.

If you are going to propose something that nobody else has validated, is it not unreasonable for me to ask why, and what data you are using to validate this suggestion?

I have no idea what 5ppm study he is referring to. I have no concern about catching the virus in a swimming pool because the virus is being constantly submerged in the chlorine solution. But a bleach solution you pour over your hands is only on your hands for at most a few seconds before it drips away or evaporates. They are completely different scenarios. If the study suggests a hand rinse is effective I would love to see it. If not, I think it can be dangerous to suggest this is an effective solution to a public forum where others may follow this advice.

Have you actually ever used bleach? It does not evaporate or drip off your hands easily. You have to rinse it a lot to get it off because it starts to saponify the oils in your skin.

Maybe you could address the CDC cite I posted in my earlier post. Or may that's just some big conspiracy.

 

[NW-Bound]

Again, diluted bleach is used in hospitals for some disinfectant applications. I think it is not used everywhere because of the smell.

I will share with you another experience. About toxicity, I will share with you something. An endodontist once flushed my molar canal with a solution of sodium hypochlorite. The smell could not be mistaken.

Now, I do not recommend people to replace their hand sanitizer with diluted bleach. It's because of the smell.

But if you cannot get hand sanitizer nor alcohol because of empty shelves, and do not want to bring some water and soap to wash yourself outside of Walmart, I think you should consider diluted bleach.

I found that 5ppm reference in a paper published way back in 2010, after the 2009 SARS virus. The author was looking at how various disinfectants kill that virus.

 

[ERD50]

That might be helpful to those reading the thread. Our interlocutor, Ready, appears to have a closed mind.

This might be a start



https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/cleaning-disinfection.html


Normal bleach from the store is a 6% solution = 60,000 ppm. 1 TBSP is 1/2 ounce. One gallon is 128 ounces. So (5 TBSP x .5 oz/TBSPx 60,000ppm)/(128 oz water + 2.5 oz bleach solution) = 1149.4 ppm

Stronger than your pool water, but far from pure 100% bleach.

I share Ready's skepticism here. I don't think it is close-mindedness at all.

The CDC guidelines for bleach are for surfaces. They have no recommendation for bleach on hands, and those are listed in the same link - soap/water or alcohol based for hand washing.

Why wouldn't the CDC recc, or at least acknowledge use of diluted bleach for hand washing?

I don't think it has much relevance to pool water, that's a 24/7 level to keep things from growing.

-ERD50

 

[Ready]

Sorry but these are all anecdotal non-scientific observations. If there is any legitimacy to using bleach as a hand sanitizer surely there would be at least one article somewhere on the internet commenting on it. Has anyone found one?

 

[Gumby]

I share Ready's skepticism here. I don't think it is close-mindedness at all.

The CDC guidelines for bleach are for surfaces. They have no recommendation for bleach on hands, and those are listed in the same link - soap/water or alcohol based for hand washing.

Why wouldn't the CDC recc, or at least acknowledge use of diluted bleach for hand washing?

I don't think it has much relevance to pool water, that's a 24/7 level to keep things from growing.

-ERD50

I personally use soap and water because, as I mentioned earlier, bleach saponifies the oils in your hands and leaves them chapped (at least mine), but I have no doubt that bleach would do just as well as soap and water. The reason soap and water works on the virus is because it breaks down the lipid package that contains the virus. You may recall I article that I referred you to earlier explained that.* So does bleach - that's what saponification is. When lipids react with alkali solutions to become soap. It is why your hands feel slippery when you touch sodium hydroxide (lye) which is typically used in soap making, and also bleach, which is an alkali solution of sodium hypochlorite.

I mean, honestly, do you need to be told everything by some official source or could you not reason this out for yourself?

* https://www.theguardian.com/comment...kills-coronavirus-alcohol-based-disinfectants

 

[ERD50]

....

Maybe you could address the CDC cite I posted in my earlier post. Or may that's just some big conspiracy.

Some cross-posting going on, but as Ready alludes, maybe you need to address why the CDC site does not refer to using a bleach solution for hands, even as an alternative.

I think Ready is correct to ask for a bit more evidence of effectiveness, when we don't see it being promoted by the normally approved sources. That's not conspiracy nor close mindedness, IMO.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

Is your hand a surface?

The CDC treats them separately, so certainly there is a distinction.

-ERD50

 

[ivinsfan]

Sorry but these are all anecdotal non-scientific observations. If there is any legitimacy to using bleach as a hand sanitizer surely there would be at least one article somewhere on the internet commenting on it. Has anyone found one?

Dude this is for use for people that can't buy hand sanitizer not meant to replace it. What would you have them do.

 

[Ready]

Dude this is for use for people that can't buy hand sanitizer not meant to replace it. What would you have them do.

I would bring a jug of water and a small bottle of soap, and a hand towel with me in my car before I poured bleach all over my hands.

 

[MBAustin]

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Folks - let's all try to keep this thread useful for those looking for the latest health and preparedness info because we know it changes frequently.
<Mod Hat OFF>

Bleach kills pretty much everything but is generally unpleasant to encounter even highly diluted. So it's perfectly fine that it is both effective but not recommended for hand washing by the CDC.