Kids and college entrance exams...

You're the person I wanna talk to!!! It sure seems there is a high percentage of people here whose kids attended MIT. What's the secret? Do they give out a bunch of free rides to the kids they want?


No , I paid plenty . My son got perfect scores in Math and near perfect scores in English . He also went to camps for gifted kids where they do math and science instead of woodworking . He did get a large grant but MIt was still expensive but worth every penney . With the grants he got it brought MIT down to the price of Rutgers which was our state school .
 
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Art --
Sounds like your son is doing just fine in his classes. But you would be doing him an enormous favor by getting him more comfortable talking to people. Maybe something like Dale Carnegie classes might help him?

After all, he's going to be facing interviews, presentations, whatever throughout his college career and beyond. This "people" skill is critical to success, IMHO.

That's a great idea with Dale Carnegie. Right now, he's like my wife, they'd rather die than talk to someone. In fact, I offered him, last week, a bonus if he'd go over and ask the hostess at the restaurant for her name. He passed. I'd be happy right now if he'd just talk to girls!
 
In my opinion, rather than trying to figure out which schools would accept your kid, it's more important to figure out where your kid will do best. Location (both geographic region and whether it is urban or not), campus size, excellence in his desired major, things like that are what are important. Visit as many schools that seem to fit that criteria as you can, and start early. After looking at one or two schools he might totally change his thoughts about whether a size he thought was right really is too small or big once he really looks at a campus.

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This is so true . I never pushed my son into MIT . He wanted to go there so badly . He ate ,drank and slept MIT while he was in high school so for him that was the perfect school but remember a school like MIT is filled with top very competive students so the pressure is enormous a lot of kids can not handle it .
 
You have to look at the schools - most schools -higher rank and private tend to look at a LOT more than just scores. Community service, internships, leadership all play a role.

When I was in high school I was surprised that a friend of mine w/ the same GPA and SAT score got into Stanford - I thought it was only for the top 5-10 or so kids from our class of over 500 - if i had known, i might have applied. But she was well rounded, got great recommendations from teachers and others and an excellent writer. Stanford tends to look at lots of things that some others don't. But Berkeley or UCLA for example have a much less thorough review - and almost 80% of the kids applying have OVER a 4.0 gpa anyway - so it's the other stuff that divides you in terms of admissions.
 
Art, while you say you are looking for first hand experiences, you won't really get that much of a sampling here to be of real use, IMO. There's just way more to admissions than test scores and grades. There's extracurriculars, course work, community service, essays, interviews, teacher recs, etc. Just because someone's kid got 730s on each SAT part and didn't get into to Stanford doesn't mean that a 740 or higher is required.

There are even things like where you are from. A kid who has near perfect credentials all around still may not get in because the school has already taken as many kids from that area as they'd like to, and want to be more regionally diverse.

Here's an example of how tough it might be to know why you did or didn't get in. I talked with a parent who's kid got into a better school than they expected, based on her score and grades. I guess it was a small enough school that he was actually able to ask why, and the director told him it was because she was the year book editor, and they thought that took enough organizational ability that it was an almost automatic admit. At other schools, it might mean very little.

Look at it from the point of the admissions director. At a Stanford they get something like 25,000 apps and have to choose about 10% of them in 3 months. Do you really expect perfection and total clarity in the process? (That question wasn't directed specifically to you.)

I found College Reviews: StudentsReview : Over 56800 College Reviews! (3,156 schools reviewed) to be a pretty useful site for learning about schools, and hearing stories about what it takes to get in.

In my opinion, rather than trying to figure out which schools would accept your kid, it's more important to figure out where your kid will do best. Location (both geographic region and whether it is urban or not), campus size, excellence in his desired major, things like that are what are important. Visit as many schools that seem to fit that criteria as you can, and start early. After looking at one or two schools he might totally change his thoughts about whether a size he thought was right really is too small or big once he really looks at a campus.

Then narrow it down and have him apply to 1-2 schools that he virtually guaranteed acceptance, 1-2 better schools he should probably make, and 1-2 "reach" schools. My daughter applied 1-2-2 in those categories. Actually we thought it was 2-1-2 but she just dropped out of the top 10% of her class and missed her automatic acceptance into U of Texas (and in another thread I mentioned she gave up on the process there). So far she's been accepted to the "gimme" school, and she's still waiting to hear on the other 3.

I think the web sites that I and a couple others posted are going to be more useful in determining what's a reach and what isn't than a few war stories here.

I would also say that if you want to improve his chances, work on his weak spots (such as interviewing) rather than trying to avoid it. He's not likely to get into a top 10 school without an interview.

Thanks. Very good post and recommendations.
 
In 1987/88 Stanford, Universities of Oregon and Colorado (I did not apply to the UC system, because Dad went to Berkely) - all were happy enough with a 1410 SAT (back when there were only two categories), 3.86 GPA (4.0 scale), community/student involvement out the wazoo, decent chunk of sports (softball, volleyball, track - none of which I was a "super" star in) Forgot what I scored on the ACT...I recommend he apply where he is interested in going - and let THEM make the decision to or not to accept him. Always apply to a variety of schools - writing those essays is good for him! :) Good luck!
 
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Thanks to all who responded. I'm not sure if it should count for anything, but I personally like the idea of a school that's diverse. I love the fact that my daughter's school is big in athletics and she gets to be involved with the marching band. I went to an urban school and never realized what I missed until visiting her school.
I think there's so much more to gain out of college besides an education. I guess I consider it such a major decision that I'd like to see them choose the right school for them, and its why I'm so passionate about seeking other opinions.
 
There are even things like where you are from.
Definitely. If your classmates with similar qualifications are also applying for the same college, your chance of getting in will be significantly lower. If you are Asian applying for MIT, CalTech, or UC Berkeley, your chance of getting in will severely lbe imited since Asians are already over-represented at those institutions.
 
My kids are like 1/16th Cherokee. I guess I need to play that up more. If my wife could trace back her heritage, I think we could even apply for a scholarship, but unfortunately, the Cherokee weren't the best about writing stuff down.
 
Stanford tends to look at lots of things that some others don't.

Including "things" that bear no relationship to whether one can complete his/her education at Stanford. If you are a star playing football with a decent grade, you will get in without any difficulty.
 
I went to one of those college forums at the high school, ya' know where many of the schools set up booths to woo prospective freshmen. Well at one school, the person in the booth was speaking with a local kid who was having a heck of a time expressing himself to say the least. The person in the booth was about to dismiss the kid when he mentioned he played basketball and was looking for a basketball scholarship. I couldn't help but be awestruck how the conversation turned from there. Suddenly this kid became quite desirable.
 
Who is more successful starting out...the Valedictorian of Georgia Tech or #600 in a graduating class of 900 at M.I.T.?

As some others have pointed out, I would urge you to set aside entirely what you want as well as set aside at least 90% as to what a school's reputation is, and spend 110% of your time trying to find a school that "fits" your child in terms of their personality, strengths, interests, abilities, and career aspirations.

I went from being the top of my high school (valedictorian, National Merit Scholar, Presidential Scholar semifinalist, 4.0 GPA, 1460 SAT, six figures worth of college scholarships including full ride 4 year Air Force and Navy ROTC scholarships to anywhere in the country) to an unhappy depressed student at an Ivy League school making mostly B's to a really happy student at a smaller, less-well-known, but extremely good regional university. In retrospect, choosing the Ivy League school because of the name recognition, the architecture, and because it wasn't Stanford (to which I had been accepted and where my older sister had gone) were really lousy reasons to go there. And the repurcussions of that lousy decision affect me to this day in terms of who I am. But I do understand why I made that decision and am trying to make better ones now, so in some senses it paid off.

I am 100% certain that I would have been happier had I gone to the smaller university from the beginning. I also probably would have been happier at Stanford, but I don't think about that much. What I often wonder is if I should have gritted it out for the last year and a half at the Ivy League just to get the stinkin' name on my diploma and also not have to explain where I went to school. I still wouldn't have been happy, but I would have probably accrued the networking and name recognition benefits of that school.

2Cor521
 
If I remember correctly, Native American scholarships are generally awarded to students who are at least 1/4 N.A., but certainly it's something that your son should at least mention during an interview or on an essay, if you think it adds value to his application.

By the way, I think it's a great idea for any h.s. student to keep a running list of EVERY award, citation, athletic event, band competition, etc. that they've been involved with during their high school years. Some of these things are forgotten, but can come in very handy during an interview.

For example, my daughter mentioned during one of her interviews that she used to show horses and for a time was nationally ranked in several hunter/jumper categories. One of the schools she applied to offered her a scholarship based on her willingness to join the school's equestrian team (we didn't even know that school had one!) She didn't go there, but still it was nice to have the offer!
 
My kids are like 1/16th Cherokee. I guess I need to play that up more. If my wife could trace back her heritage, I think we could even apply for a scholarship, but unfortunately, the Cherokee weren't the best about writing stuff down.

That's so funny--everyone I know is 1/16th Cherokee (including me!).

One thing that drove me nuts was the people who suggested the kids pad their resumes with "volunteer work"--a spring break spent in Appalachia or doing Habitat somewhere. If that's really important to a kid, he or she should already be doing it. Same as an underachieving student trying to get into the toughest school--if academics were really that important to that kid, why isn't she or he already showing that?

If your kid has a passion, that will carry him. If he is painfully shy, that is probably his personality and it might be tough for him to change that. You also might take that into account when suggesting different schools to him--he might be happiest at a good smaller school where he can bloom rather than compete with crowds of brilliant extroverts. My older one was quiet and ended up at a smaller school full of proud nerds with still developing social skills--my child was thrilled for the first time to be the cool one!
 
...to an unhappy depressed student at an Ivy League school making mostly B's
That's warning that was given at the info meeting at CalTech about a year ago when we visited the campus at Pasadena.
 
Since we're all pretty much anonymous, I figured I could bring up this discussion here and get some realistic answers without feeling the need to be competitive with other parents.
My son, who is a sophomore in high school just got back his ACT results. His scores, in my estimation, were surprisingly high. I'm just wondering for those of you with kids in college recently, or preparing for such, what types of scores on the SAT or ACT did you find necessary to qualify for the schools? I realize there are other factors (as I just went through this last year with my daughter. i.e. grades, activities, public service), but I believe I undersold my daughter's value and she may have been able to qualify for some schools I didn't reach for.
So, in essence, my question is....what did it take to get your child into their university?

You should really get one of those college admission magazines put out every year by US News & World Report ( i think that's the one?). They have the score range listed for all the colleges/universities. Colleges look at the broader picture than just test scores. And every admissions team has a slightly different approach. Often they are hoping to bring a wide range of students who will create an interesting and stimulating environment. Universities, espec. state, will go by the statistics.
 
You should really get one of those college admission magazines put out every year by US News & World Report ( i think that's the one?). They have the score range listed for all the colleges/universities. Colleges look at the broader picture than just test scores. And every admissions team has a slightly different approach. Often they are hoping to bring a wide range of students who will create an interesting and stimulating environment. Universities, espec. state, will go by the statistics.
You can see it online too.
USNews.com: America's Best Colleges 2008: National Universities

There's some free info, and for $15 each year you can see more details, notably the rankings in various categories. We found it moderately helpful
 
I took the ACT 3 times and got a best score of 18. All state university's in my state require at least a 19 for admittance. That's why i'm stuck working in a factory for 30 years.
 
I took the ACT 3 times and got a best score of 18. All state university's in my state require at least a 19 for admittance. That's why i'm stuck working in a factory for 30 years.

Well that's your choice, there are other avenues for you to take..........;)
 
Well that's your choice, there are other avenues for you to take..........;)
Other than car sales, which doesn't follow my personality, what avenues do you speak of. Don't say pro poker player or business owner. 95% of people who play poker lose money and to be a business owner you have to have money to start a business.
 
You could be an investment advisor! Do you have a heart of stone?
 
You could be an investment advisor! Do you have a heart of stone?

I would love to do that. That's what I would go to school for if I could get into a university. But you need a degree and a certification to do that don't you.
 
Community college would be an option. Maybe not no much back then, but certainly now. And my point of posting this is to mention an option for kids today, not to disparage a choice you made 30 years ago.

All but one sibling out of the 6 siblings or nieces or nephews of mine that did not go to college took or are taking some coursework to get some kind of associates degree or certification.
 
I would love to do that. That's what I would go to school for if I could get into a university. But you need a degree and a certification to do that don't you.

Are you out of your ever loving mind?!!!! Have you looked at the market lately? Go get a reputable job, like a CFO for Countrywide or Governor of NY.
 
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