Laminate Flooring/Cabinetry Install

[street]

Today wife and I drove to the city and got educated on laminate flooring and details on new cabinetry for kitchen area.

We went to a Menards, and they were very helpful and price for material wasn't near as bad as I thought it would be. All flooring and cabinetry material for just under 5K.

Looking at the Hickory cabinets/bases. I would need to install all hinges and door hardware, but all holes are predrilled and just need to screw the hardware in place etc.

I have enough carpenter experience to do the whole job from tear out to install floor and cabinetry. I installed the cabinetry 40 years by myself when I built the home. Wife and I would be able to do the job and would start sometime in spring sometime.

Has anyone dome the laminating flooring part, and if you have any tips tricks of the trade would be helpful?

 

[Car-Guy]

Has anyone dome the laminating flooring part, and if you have any tips tricks of the trade would be helpful?

Yep, we did about 1200+ sq ft a few years ago in the living, dinning rooms, kitchen, hallway and utility room... Love it.... Kept carpet in all 4 of the bedrooms.

My tip, have a professional do it... Lot's of bending over and back breaking work and a few special tools... It tool 3 "younger" guys about a full day to do ours, including removing about 700 sq ft of old carpeting (living room) and prepping the floor and installing all new and matching 1/4 round. Plus they moved all the furniture and hauled all the old carpet and trash away. I got tired just watching them.

When I bought mine, the installation was part of the deal.

 

[Philliefan33]

DH and I installed the laminate flooring in our vacation home. It was a small job, about 500 sq ft, but involved a fair number of “fussy” cuts. Our flooring is the kind that clicks in along the edges and had the foam underpayment attached to each plank.

It was a relatively easy install. DH and I are moderately competent DIYers, but by no means finish carpenters. The middle part of the room went quickly, we had to take our time with some of the edge cuts and using the little plunge saw thingy to make room for the flooring under the door trim.

Seeing your posts about your woodworking projects, I think you should be confident doing the flooring.

BTW, I love the wood-look laminate flooring we installed. It looks great and has stood up to wear, mud, visiting dogs and our grandson. I like it so much that we are having laminate flooring installed in our new house build, paying extra to get that instead of the included hardwood.

 

[Badger]

I haven't done laminated flooring but I have done tile. It really isn't that difficult and porcelain will last a life time. I'm too creaky with issues these days but I have done 3 kitchens, a dining room, a living room, a great room and a 12x 20 sun room over the years. Regardless as with most projects the most important thing is preparation and marking the center of the room to lay out the grid. I would suggest considering installing the floor first then put a protective covering over it before you install the base cabinets. There will be an easier level and fit of the base cabinets if the floor is all the same height.

Cheers!

 

[JoeWras]

I have put down about 50,000 sq. ft. of laminate or LVP flooring. I've seen some things. I have seen excellent jobs by amateurs, and I've seen complete disasters requiring complete rip-out and redo, all with the work crew having no idea they botched it so badly. Sometimes, they even leave the job patting each other on the back wasting an entire day and 10 boxes of laminate. This is simply because they never realized how to actually lock the boards. Watch some youtubes.

Since OP has carpentry experience, it would be a great thing to tackle as long as OP's knees are ready for it.

My Tips:

• All laminate and LVP is not equal. Quality varies massively. You generally get what you pay for.
• Pergo has the original patent and best locking (IMHO). Others have to tweak it to avoid patent issues. Some do a great job. Others are nearly impossible to install, usually the cheap stuff.
• Eased edge boards are easy for the manufacturer but may not allow you to see if you have a good, tight lock. I don't like them.
• Undercutting casings and other impediments is the key to a pro looking install. You can use a regular oscillating multi-tool saw and don't have to buy the specific saw. Use a piece of scrap and underlayment (if applicable) to find your height. Many youtubes on this out there. If you get it right, you will pat yourself on the back and impress the neighbors.
• Prepare your underlayment. Large height differences are trouble. Sanding or putting down leveler may help. Many pros don't hesitate to just put down a layer of luan no matter what. But it may build your surface too high.
• Dust and dirt control. Keep it out! The smallest debris can ruin a lock. A ruined lock early in the layout can ruin a whole floor. I run my vacuum obsessively.
• Measure before you start and do the math. You don't want a thin strip to end. You may have to rip the first board. EDIT: someone upstream mentioned the center and grid. YES. Layout the floor before you open the first box.
• Read the instructions. Read the instructions.
• Stagger seams. You would not believe how many amateurs try to line up seems. I like offset patterns of 3s. Another guy I work with likes random. We always avoid putting seams within 12" of each other.
• Learn to work backwards, but avoid it if possible. Laminate goes in one best way with an angle insertion and lock. It is possible to work it backwards to fill in coves and other small areas. Pros do it to avoid transition seams. But it isn't easy.
• You need good tap blocks and pull bars.
• The gap at the edge which you will cover with trim is real and necessary in a floating floor.
• There are cleaver measuring tricks. Watch some youtubes. Pros rarely use their tape because they know the tricks.
• The last pieces are tricky and may require planning. If done right, you can get them in with your pull bar and nothing more. OK, maybe a swear word or two.

As for the locking. Put on your glasses and make sure it is tight. The good stuff will give a satisfying click or blip. The bad stuff just needs to be tapped a lot more to be snug and inspected carefully. I've seen plenty of floors where the crew did not lock them but thought they did. These floors won't last. They are a disaster and have to be 100% ripped out and thrown away.


Most of the time, gentle tapping is all that is needed if you have everything aligned right. Working backwards sometimes needs more persuasion. And sometimes, you honestly just need to beat the tar out of it.


As for LVP with integrated underlayment backing: this is the stuff I've really seen vary in quality. I was also given a box that sat around for 4 years in an attic and told to use it. Well, the rubber edges were dry rotting. I had a headache that day. Only install fresh and quality LVP. I also find that tapping DOWN the LVP after install is useful. First click it and get it assembled seam to seam. Then tap it down all along the seam. I use a soft dead blow mini sledge for this, although not necessary.


These are fun, satisfying projects if done right.

 

[Teacher Terry]

When I was married we installed laminate or lvp ourselves in 6 houses. They all turned out great. I like the lvp better than the laminate.

 

[Sunset]

....

Has anyone dome the laminating flooring part, and if you have any tips tricks of the trade would be helpful?

We did a small room about 15 years ago, I wish I had bought better quality laminate, as we should re-do the room. Problem is it's now full of furniture and used daily

Otherwise, it's pretty simple.

 

[Souschef]

Yep, we did about 1200+ sq ft a few years ago in the living, dinning rooms, kitchen, hallway and utility room... Love it.... Kept carpet in all 4 of the bedrooms.

My tip, have a professional do it... Lot's of bending over and back breaking work and a few special tools... It tool 3 "younger" guys about a full day to do ours, including removing about 700 sq ft of old carpeting (living room) and prepping the floor and installing all new and matching 1/4 round. Plus they moved all the furniture and hauled all the old carpet and trash away. I got tired just watching them.

When I bought mine, the installation was part of the deal.

ABSOLUTELY. They have the skill and the special tools. Also if anything messes up, you have recourse.
My experience is the same as Carguy. They did the living room, dining room, den and hall in less than a day, including moving all the heavy furniture. They also removed the old carpet and took it away.

 

[Ronstar]

I agree with others - Have someone else do the laminate. Let someone else work on their knees/ bend over. You have enough to do with the tear out and cabinets. And maybe some plumbing and electrical.

 

[pb4uski]

I've done 3 installs... one with an inexperienced friend, one for our bonus room and my mom's lanai in Florida.

The first one was a disaster. My friend had already started when I arrived to help him. Neither of us had done it before and it was a struggle. He hadn't read the instructions and started the wrong edge.

The second install went really well, smoothly and has held up very well.

The third install went fairly smoothly but about a year later developed cracks where the laminate wanted to separate where the boards meet (short butt ends).

A lot of up and down... using muscles that you often don't use... if you have a tender back I suggest that you hire it out.

 

[zinger1457]

After tearing up the old floor you'll need to make sure the subfloor is fairly level, laminate flooring is very thin and requires a level base, the manufacturer will list leveling requirements for their flooring. Use a quality underlayment and select a laminate floor that has good water resistant properties since it will be in the kitchen. I did ~1500 sq-ft of click together engineer hardwood in my house, not that difficult if well planned out, a table saw comes in handy for any ripping that's needed.

 

[street]

WOW!! Excellent advice!!

JoeWras, thanks for that very detailed help and to all the others also. Wonderful!

My plan at this time would be to tear out carpet, linoleum bases and cabinets in one day. Then the next get the flooring down. The room in 20 x 14 and would have to make one cut expect for the staged joint in each row.

The following days I would install hanging cabinetry and then last the bases.

My wife said she doesn't want it to last a month to do. Well, it shouldn't but I would say to get back to normal a good week or two.

The samples we brought home are "Great Lakes Vynal Flooring" product. Manmade product water resistant and is the stuff he recommended for high-risk water area.

Anyone familiar with that product or a product that I need to be looking for?

 

[JoeWras]

I'm not familiar with that product.

One more thing about base cabinets over LVP planks. Be careful. It is generally not recommended if the LVP is floating. The bases will lock out the float and you can get buckling.

If it is glue down, then you are OK.

I know it makes it more of a pain to work around the bases, but that's the general way. Just make sure to floor the dishwasher and stove coves, and make sure there is headroom for the counter with the added laminate thickness.

 

[street]

I'm not familiar with that product.

One more thing about base cabinets over LVP planks. Be careful. It is generally not recommended if the LVP is floating. The bases will lock out the float and you can get buckling.

If it is glue down, then you are OK.

I know it makes it more of a pain to work around the bases, but that's the general way. Just make sure to floor the dishwasher and stove coves, and make sure there is headroom for the counter with the added laminate thickness.

JoeWras, are you familiar with LVP plank with attached mat backing?? Use this product and would eliminate underlaying a mat?

That is good you mentioned the bases over LVP plank. That makes complete sense.
After you mentioned that I remember a home a friend had built, and he told me about that same thing on an island they had. It wasn't attached to the floor it was a floating island.

 

[retire48in2018]

I’ve done quite a few DYI flooring projects - hardwood, laminate, LVP, etc.

There is a definite quality aspect to consider with click/snap flooring. Sometimes the cheaper ones don’t work well together as well as some high end ones. Try someone out in store to assure yourself of the quality.

Also - look at cabinets/toe kick for how to end the floating floor - clearance is needed. You might consider a “double” toe kick or a thicker toe kick to allow the floating floor under - with expansion space. Floating floors can not be under cabinets. That might have an impact on countertop selection with dishwasher (some dishwashers are tight tolerance on heights). Fridge and/or oven - consider options available to pull in/out over floating floor (to avoid buckling floating floor - some add/include “tracks” to avoid damaging/buckling floor when sliding in/out)


Probably will need to adjust existing trim baseboard as well - (remove and adjust up or down). I don’t like to add quarter round onto baseboard for floating floor clearance - I adjust the height of baseboard and cut drywall underneath as well.

Also - for kitchen - please be sure it is truly water proof. For some laminates - for waterpoof, they expect people to add silicone to joints during installation - I’d not consider these. LVP is the easier answer, as it is by design waterproof

Finally - consider underlayment options. Balancing noise abatement vs “spongy/soft” feel. For example, adding 1/4” cork as underlayment is fantastic for noise - but might cause floor to be to soft for some people (others like the softer feel).

Floating floors will not feel as solid as tile or nailed down hardwood. That’s a feel preference.

 

[JoeWras]

JoeWras, are you familiar with LVP plank with attached mat backing?? Use this product and would eliminate underlaying a mat?

That is good you mentioned the bases over LVP plank. That makes complete sense.
After you mentioned that I remember a home a friend had built, and he told me about that same thing on an island they had. It wasn't attached to the floor it was a floating island.

Yes, the LVP with integrated rubber underlayment eliminates the extra step of laying foam underlayment.

I'm glad others are mentioning quality too. I think you see a theme that we are all independently mentioning: quality matters A LOT.

This is especially true with the one step LVP. The integrated underlayment is convenient, but also makes the planks trickier to manufacturer and provide a product with a good lock. If you can try it out in the store before you buy a bunch, do it .

This stuff is all over the place in price, and it shows. Don't go cheap.

 

[street]

Excellent!!! You all have schooled me on the subject, and I will most definitely not go cheap. I have heard that load and clear.

 

[zinger1457]

I re-did my walk-in closet not too long ago and put in engineered hardwood flooring that came with a thin underlayment attached, I didn't think it would be enough so also used this underlayment product, easy to work with and liked the results.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LD0RC24/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Badger]

WOW!! Excellent advice!!

My wife said she doesn't want it to last a month to do. Well, it shouldn't but I would say to get back to normal a good week or two.

I've been there a few times. My wife figures any remodeling job should only take a Saturday to complete whether it is ripping out a kitchen or bathroom or building an addition. She doesn't understand the numerous unforeseen problems that come up. After a month of working on some major projects during the weekends it starts to get a bit tense around here.
Best of luck with your project.

 

[Ronstar]

Beware of scope creep. Try to keep all appliances in the same place and get a cabinet layout identical to your current layout.

When I remodeled our kitchen, DW and her kitchen designer had me running ragged. I had to move a wall to accommodate the new cabinet design. Different appliance locations caused rerunning electrical. Design called for a range hood. We had downdraft before, so I had to install the hood and rout a duct through the roof. And run electric to the new hood location. Took a while to do all of this.

 

[Car-Guy]

I've been there a few times. My wife figures any remodeling job should only take a Saturday to complete

Beware of scope creep.

When I remodeled our kitchen, DW and her kitchen designer had me running ragged.

Voices of experience. Advice to read and heed. Some things are universal I guess.

 

[sdtech]

I've done a lot of floors from laminate to hardwood to engineered hardwood. I'm a big fan of laying down luan thin wood sheets. It makes everything else easier.


I put laminate in places like sunrooms and basements. The higher quality ones are water resistant.


My favorite every place else is very high quality engineered hardwood. DeWalt has an electric staple gun that lets you get away from the pneumatic-mallet systems. I also second the recommendation to pre-undercut all the casements.

 

[street]

Ohhh and some of the best advice is finally coming out! Lol Those girls sometime just see the end point not all the hurdles to cross getting there. Lol It will be interesting to say the least!

Yes, we did agree on pretty much the exact layout that we have with some change but with no electrical or plumbing changes. In fact, a few of the changes will make it better and easier than the way it is now.

One more question can you install LVP over linoleum or indoor/outdoor carpet?

Researching it says YES you can. Just wonder because somethings need to be investigated beyond what you find on the web.

 

[Car-Guy]

I got thinking about this thread and even though I said (and still say) "hire a professional". But even pros make mistakes too. So be sure/comfortable they will backup their workmanship.

I now recall having to call them back out once to correct a problem that developed after a few months. The new free floating floor started to buckle or bow in the middle, so we called them out to fix it... They came out within a day or two, IIRC.. Anyway, the manufactures specification said not to exceed something like 50' without allowing for an expansion joint. Ours exceeded the specs by ~ 5' but the "pros" still thought it would be okay. They came out, checked it out, and knew what the problem was in 5 minutes. It took them about a hour to add the expansion joint and fix the problem. Perfect job and zero cost to me.

I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to figure it out and fix but I doubt I could have done it as quick and clean as they did. And the DW couldn't blame me! Priceless.

 

[Aerides]

Lol Those girls sometime just see the end point not all the hurdles to cross getting there. Lol It will be interesting to say the least!

As one of those "girls" I would say, rather, we know exactly what it takes, having survived plenty of prior projects, and done enough of our own. And we know we don't want to be doing dishes in the bathroom for 6 weeks like the last one week kitchen project turned out... so we say "do it fast or not", knowing you cannot do it fast yourself, but knowing we have zero appetite for that again.

We've all been there.. "I'll have the carpet out in a day" - but you'll find some of the floor is super uneven, or some staples break coming up and need sanding... so then that's 3 days. And so it goes.

One of my mottos: I'll throw money at a problem so I don't have to sweat.