Laminate Flooring/Cabinetry Install

[JoeWras]

I've done a lot of floors from laminate to hardwood to engineered hardwood. I'm a big fan of laying down luan thin wood sheets. It makes everything else easier.

It does. Especially if you have sketchy underlayment like I did. Pros pretty much do this without question.

BTW: OP, street, if you do put down luan, you can do this step before you put down your base cabinets.

One more question can you install LVP over linoleum or indoor/outdoor carpet?

Linoleum or old sheet vinyl? Absolutely. It may be preferred as the mastic for the old stuff can contain asbestos. As for the carpet, it depends on the pile. It has to be very tight. Even then, be aware your floor will feel very relaxed, which may not be bad. You want good LVP that locks really good since there will be flex with every step.

 

[JoeWras]

Some of us climb mountains. Some LBYM down to the penny. And some of us do home improvement. It is our "thing," our adrenaline rush that we get when you pull up the carpet and realize there's 3 more days scope creep and the DW will now be on your back.

 

[Car-Guy]

One of my mottos: I'll throw money at a problem so I don't have to sweat.

+1, blow that dough...I'm a DIY type guy but on something like this, it's money well spent IMO! I didn't do my new floor a few years ago and I didn't do my new roof earlier this year either.

A man (or woman) has got to know his (or her) limitations.

 

[finnski1]

Some of us climb mountains. Some LBYM down to the penny. And some of us do home improvement. It is our "thing," our adrenaline rush that we get when you pull up the carpet and realize there's 3 more days scope creep and the DW will now be on your back.

I climb my local mountain once a week. I also LBYM (though certainly not down to the penny) and am also a hardcore DIY guy.

 

[CRLLS]

I have done several laminate jobs from small, on up to a kitchen sized area. Whenever we do a job, the cabinets are installed first and the flooring goes up to, but not underneath the cabinets. Laminate is a floating floor. Do not constrain it with cabinetry sitting on top. A piece of quarter round will finish off the edge under the toe kick.

I recently installed a small, but semi-complicated area with LVT, maybe 25 sq ft. I really liked the fit and finish over the laminate I previously have installed.

When we updated our kitchen, we used engineered hardwood. I had never installed any kind of hardwood before. We hired a pro to do the install. What a sad mistake that was. I saw them screwup in oh, so many ways, I did learn how to and how not to do it. Later I did an entryway myself. What a difference! Pros come in many levels of expertise.

Get a few sample pieces from your flooring supplier and see how they fit together to get an idea before you start laying flooring. Watch some Youtube videos to get a good idea of the concept and then take your time. It should go well.

 

[Surewhitey]

+1 install cabinets first. Make sure you have enough clearance for the dishwasher after flooring is installed. If you want a good starting point, you can opt for the longer front line of cabinets if everything is pretty square.

I start with mid-priced pre-underlayment products. If you use a chopsaw or circular saw, use an old blade as they really eat them up.

YouTube is a good resource for most everything. Get your tool list and make sure you have everything you need. I hate having to stop for a mallet or tap block.

This is the only thing I don't bid on as it is back breaking. I only help friends who want it. (I'm not taking on anymore "friends", BTW). I enjoy the challenge, but regret it the next day.

Some of the tools needed will be (see pic), table saw for last rip cuts & cross cuts & multi tool for under door casing. Put more attention to the doorways and detailed cuts.

 

[CRLLS]

Another point to consider, plan the layout beforehand so you don't end up with a 1"wide last piece, especially where it meets another flooring edge.

 

[JoeWras]

Another point to consider, plan the layout beforehand so you don't end up with a 1"wide last piece, especially where it meets another flooring edge.

Math is required! But it is easy math. Well worth the effort before you even touch the first piece out of the box.

 

[ERD50]

Lots of good advice on the flooring. If you decide to DIY, 14 x 20 sounds like a two day project to me. It is a lot of getting up/down off your knees, I would not push it. You have plenty of woodworking skills for the job, it's a matter of your knees/back being up to it - but if you take it slow, and have a helper hand you things, it's not really that bad. DD, SIL and I did a med-sized bedroom, including cork underlayment in less than a day. Baseboards the next day, by then my knees were complaining.

CABINETS: I haven't seen this mentioned, and I forget the correct term, but many cabinets these days (and not just the from the big box stores) aren't really stained/dyed. They put a sealer on the wood, then spray a translucent finish to get the desired color/tone.

The problem - I've had bits of this chip off after just a few years, especially in the heavy wear areas (and I'm not alone, plenty of complaints on the web). The real problem is, you can't just use a touch up pen or stain - that sealer really seals the wood. IIRC, even sanding didn't help, the sealer went into the wood. I didn't have much luck touching it up, finally mixed some craft acrylic paints to get close enough to not catch your eye, but of course it stood out to me.

I think they do this to get away from 'blotching' of the stain. Looks good, until it doesn't.
If no one else comes up with the name of this finish, I'll try to search it out.

-ERD50

 

[street]

Thanks for more continued great advice. Yes, I will tear out first then hang cabinets and then do bases.

Still working on flooring product and application/install and will be designing and getting right cabinets sizes to match old design.

There is a lot to learn but I believe we can accomplish the project.

Aerides, thanks for your post! I'm not sure what I would do without my wife if something happened to her. She is the one that set some ground rules and goals and I'm always glad for that. I know when we start this project, we won't agree on everything, but she has always been supportive and has great ideas and without her input I wouldn't even want to do it.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Make your wife your assistant like I always was. The job goes faster and she won’t be bugging you to finish as she will be working with you. I always helped pulling up the old flooring and then was constantly handing him boards, tools, etc so he wouldn’t need to get up. It saves on wear and tear on the body.

 

[Sunset]

Use knee pads !

 

[Music Lover]

Most laminate only can be put down in one direction so take that into account before starting.

Put the cabinets down first.

I don't necessarily think it has to be centered, often staring along a long uninterrupted wall works best. I started along the long wall of the living room which continued into the hallway. It was 34' total. The other side had 15' of wall, then 12' of cabinets so I preferred to have full pieces on the long stretch. Actually, there were 3 doors on the long wall so I started with full pieces and put partial pieces into the doorways. that was probably the best way to lay it out. A thin piece of laminate doesn't look that bad, not like a thin piece of tile which I think looks horrible. You won't even notice it.

 

[Taco]

In addition to the great advice above, I will mention spacers...

I installed LVP recently and bought an installation kit like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S2PC6K9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Instead of using the spacers that were in that kit, I used these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N9LWZQF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The upgraded spacers were well worth it to me. There are other similar ones out there.
You want ones that sit on top of the flooring and don't fall over when you slide a board up against the wall. Check the video out at that Amazon link for the spacers - it shows some ways the normal spacers might fail.

 

[tfudtuckerpucker]

In addition to the great advice above, I will mention spacers...

I installed LVP recently and bought an installation kit like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S2PC6K9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Instead of using the spacers that were in that kit, I used these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N9LWZQF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I installed flooring in one room recently. I got frustrated with using wedge spacers, so I found the best approach was to screw down the first row, using scrap pieces. Later you replace that row. That way the floor does shift as you push/tap the floor together. The "tfloor" spacers look like a good idea, but if the room is not *exactly* square, you can't adjust the starting row slightly, since it would forced to be aligned exactly to that wall.

 

[JoeWras]

I installed flooring in one room recently. I got frustrated with using wedge spacers, so I found the best approach was to screw down the first row, using scrap pieces. Later you replace that row. That way the floor does shift as you push/tap the floor together. The "tfloor" spacers look like a good idea, but if the room is not *exactly* square, you can't adjust the starting row slightly, since it would forced to be aligned exactly to that wall.

That's an excellent tip! Spacers are maddening.

You will be replacing that row "backwards," which I talked about earlier. It is doable, just takes patience and a little more force.

 

[calnomore]

This would also be the time to look at the electric. Add more outlets/circuits and bring everything up to code. Plumbing as well.

Allow yourself more time than you think you'll need. Things never go as planned.

As far as the flooring, if you use a good product and plan it out, you'll be fine. The good thing in doing it yourself is it will be done according to your schedule.

 

[Ronstar]

I've never done laminate - only hardwood and engineered hardwood. Sounds like laminate is more difficult.

 

[jrendt]

I would make sure you use a waterproof product in the kitchen. I used LifeProof in my current house. Two years and its held up well. In my old house I thought about laminate but put in a tile floor instead. About a month later the drain hose on the dishwasher came loose and flooded the floor in hot water; that put me off non waterproof floors. I have used the Pergo stuff from HD. It seems to hold up well to spills. As for installing, it's not rocket science. You can minimize getting up and down by having one person lay and mark the flooring and the other cutting it. Kneepads help a lot. If you do go with vinyl, get the good stuff; the cheap stuff is hard to lock together and sometimes come undone when you walk on it. Good luck with the project.

 

[street]

Thanks, again for your experiences and advice. Very much appreciated!

I have been in the process of learning more about it how too. I will need to have a couple spots where vinyl plank flooring meet with carpet. I will need to install an expansion joint or seam to keep the floatation on floor. Will need to see how that install is done.

 

[Music Lover]

The first couple rows are always the hardest. If you can get them down nice and straight it's usually clear sailing after that. Someone suggested screwing down the first row and replacing it later. That is a good idea.

Or, you can lay the first row tight to the wall and after 3 or 4 rows pry it back to leave the required gap.

 

[street]

The first couple rows are always the hardest. If you can get them down nice and straight it's usually clear sailing after that. Someone suggested screwing down the first row and replacing it later. That is a good idea.

Or, you can lay the first row tight to the wall and after 3 or 4 rows pry it back to leave the required gap.

Thanks Music Lover. I'm getting in the right mind set to tackle the job. These tips are very helpful, and they make me aware of what I need to pay attention too as I start laying plank.

 

[Music Lover]

Thanks Music Lover. I'm getting in the right mind set to tackle the job. These tips are very helpful, and they make me aware of what I need to pay attention too as I start laying plank.

I've laid 4 or 5 laminate floors. One thing I've learned is that you will have to use a (preferably) rubber mallet to tap some pieces into place. Use a scrap piece so that you don't damage the piece you're working with. I even tap pieces that "set" nicely just to make sure that they're as tight as can be.

Someone also said that keeping the area clean is important. That's true, even a tiny grain of sand can prevent two pieces from fitting tightly together. Do a quick pass with a handheld vacuum before laying each piece.

Also, open up a few boxes and spread out the pieces before you start. There will always be nice and not as nice pieces as well as some colour variation or some damaged pieces. The damage can be cut off and those pieces used when you need a short piece near a wall. Put the less appealing pieces in areas that will be covered with furniture and use the "signature" pieces in open areas.

 

[JoeWras]

I wish I had the picture of the ultra low end laminate floor we installed last year. It was a brand famous for being priced under $1 sq. ft. We had many pieces printed wrong. A few had the grain printed off by 20 degrees or so. A handful had some "blank" sections without printing. One board was printed with the special printer calibration patterns, you know, the targets and color pallet. It was actually pretty cool, but a waste. We installed it under the stove for some future person to get a surprise.

Back to LVP and "Lifeproof" brand. This is a Home Depot brand. I've installed some. This is a mid-range product. It isn't terrible, it isn't great. It is some of the hardest LVP I've experienced to install correctly. I'm glad user jrendt got it right! I would put it in my home basement, but I'd be super careful on installation. I'd likely go with something like Pergo LVP for my kitchen (over $4 sq. ft.), but that's just me.

This article describes Lifeproof perfectly, especially regarding the installation challenges and potential break of the locking tongues. Lifeproof is a Home Depot only product. Read it if you are interested in the brand, especially the review comments. Again, I'm not against this brand, I just want people to be wide awake on the challenges of it.

https://www.homeflooringpros.com/lifeproof-vinyl-flooring/

Finally, I have pictures of a very bad Lifeproof install. Next post.

 

[JoeWras]

Here's what a bad installation looks like. This was done by volunteers who didn't understand how to lock the Lifeproof LVP. This floor will be toast in a few years, and is already having challenges of severe separation.

The crew just didn't realize they weren't locking. This Lifeproof model is very popular (Sterling Oak, https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lifepro...-Flooring-20-06-sq-ft-case-I966106L/300699284)

It is the hardest stuff I've used to get to lock properly. And you really do need to be careful about breaking the fragile rubber tongues. I had to use every trick in the book to get it right. When it is done right, the seams literally melt away. You have to get on your knees to find them. When it is done wrong, you'll see them, and then it is game over. Your floor won't last.