Leaking Under Sink

[TromboneAl]

Our appliances, etc, tend to break around the holidays, or at least it seems that way. This year is no exception.

After discovering some water under the sink, I have found two independent small leaks.

Leak 1: When the Moen faucet is running, I get some dripping under the faucet (in the cabinet under the sink) at the green arrow.



Probably related to this, if I push down gently on the faucet when it is running, water appears at the locations shown by the red arrows. I'm guessing there's a leak that causes the whole assembly to fill with water, and that is then dripping down through the entry holes.

Moen is off for Christmas, and I'm guessing they'll have a fix for me, but in the meantime, does anyone know if there's something that can be tightened to fix this?

Leak 2: If I dump a lot of water into the garbage disposal at one time, a few drips come out on the side, and from the bottom.



I guess I will follow advice here:
Garbage Disposal Troubleshooting - Leaking Disposal

or, probably better, leave it until after Christmas.

 

[Ronstar]

Al,

The faucet leaks look like the inside gaskets are not sealing. So you may need new gaskets or the assembly needs to be tightened. A lot of these tighten from under the sink. Moen is great. A supplier told me that Moen will give free parts to an original owner. If your problem continues, go to a plumbing parts supplier (not a big box store), and they should be able to give you some good advice/part numbers, etc.

The upper disposal leak may be able to be fixed by tightening. But a leak around the electrical connection is odd. I wouldn't use the disposal with water leaking near the electrical connection. I replaced my disposal at our condo and I can't remember how to tighten the top. It looks like yours has bolts that connect the disposal to to the sink strainer? You may want to start by tightening this area, and then evaluate the lower leak. You may need a new disposal. (FYI- my new one didn't come with an electrical cord - I had to buy the cord separately)

 

[W2R]

What rotten timing for this leak, Al! So sorry to hear it.

I think you've got the best idea - - put a bucket under it and then wait until after the holidays to cope with it. Most of us have too much to do already at this time of year, due to the holidays, and so it's easy to get overstressed.

You'll be able to fix it at your leisure once things return to normal.

 

[omni550]

Moen is great. A supplier told me that Moen will give free parts to an original owner.

A couple of years ago, I had trouble with my Moen single-handle bathtub faucet. It needed a new cartridge. It would've been ~$30-40 at the local hardware store.

The Moen customer service guy had me send him pictures of the partially disassembled faucet...and coached me through the rest of the disassembly. He then offered to send me a replacement cartridge via standard mail for free or, if I was in a hurry, I could pay extra for priority mail.

I used the in-wall shutoffs to turn the water on for showers and off the rest of the time.

The cartridge was here within about 5 days via standard mail.

I was impressed with Moen. Although I was the original owner/installer of the faucet, Moen did not require any documentation from me.

omni

 

[Free To Canoe]

Our appliances, etc, tend to break around the holidays, or at least it seems that way. This year is no exception.

This is due to some universal but less documented law. I have had several people comment on appliance failures before or during the holidays. Our stove died the day before Thanksgiving 2 years ago with my DW hosting the meal. Last year the dishwasher broke (filled with water) during Thanksgiving dinner. There, proof positive.

Leak 1: When the Moen faucet is running, I get some dripping under the faucet (in the cabinet under the sink) at the green arrow.

Probably related to this, if I push down gently on the faucet when it is running, water appears at the locations shown by the red arrows. I'm guessing there's a leak that causes the whole assembly to fill with water, and that is then dripping down through the entry holes.

Tightening the offenders after you rip things apart might be the fix. Good to have the parts store open and near by however.
T-Al do you have a shutoff valve for the sink and does it (they) work?

Leak 2: If I dump a lot of water into the garbage disposal at one time, a few drips come out on the side, and from the bottom.

or, probably better, leave it until after Christmas.

I suspect that the water is sneaking down from the top and dripping "out" the bottom.

The bucket idea or using the shut off valve may be alternatives that I would consider until after the holiday weekend. Depends on your situation.

 

[braumeister]

Leak 2: If I dump a lot of water into the garbage disposal at one time, a few drips come out on the side, and from the bottom.

I would take a big adjustable wrench, like the kind you would use to change the oil filter on a car, and tighten that big nut your upper red arrow is pointing to. The vibration of the disposal motor has probably just loosened it over time.

 

[omni550]

Leak 2: If I dump a lot of water into the garbage disposal at one time, a few drips come out on the side, and from the bottom.

Not sure why water is coming out of the side.

I know that the typical failure mode for garbage disposals like these is rusting through the bottom. There's always some water that sits in the bottom of these and eventually they rust through. I seem to recall getting about 10-12 years of service out of my disposals.

You may want to get a flashlight and take a look at the bottom of the disposal to verify if this is the case.

Otherwise, the water on the bottom may simply be the [mysterious] water that has dripped out of the side and run to the bottom, no?

omni

 

[TromboneAl]

Otherwise, the water on the bottom may simply be the [mysterious] water that has dripped out of the side and run to the bottom, no?

omni

Yes, I am sure that is it.

Agreed, Moen is great. They already sent me replacement cartridges a few years ago. However, I would prefer that "Lifetime Warranty" meant "Never any problems" rather than "problems every few years that we will help you fix."

 

[FreeAtLast]

I know that the typical failure mode for garbage disposals like these is rusting through the bottom. There's always some water that sits in the bottom of these and eventually they rust through. I seem to recall getting about 10-12 years of service out of my disposals.
omni

+1

We have been in our house 25 years and are on our third disposal. Both of the replacements were due to leak related problems.

 

[easysurfer]

Few months ago had both a leaky garbage disposal and faucet. I ended up changing the entire faucet anyhow (the faucet that I had was not a popular brand and didn't have cheap replacement O-rings available). The disposal had an old worn out gasket by where the disposal connected to the sink. It took me an entire day (plumbing not my favorite thing) -- the biggest challenge was figuring out how to take apart the disposal to get at the leaky gasket. But finally, I fixed the leaking from the disposal. The faucet replacement was easier.

Here's a youtube link I remember viewing when pursing the garbage disposal leaking:

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

It may be that the little aeration screen on the faucet tip is plugged with scale, rust or sand. When it gets plugged, the pressure builds up on the packing on the valves and they leak. Remove the screen and clean it. It is held in with a little threaded collar. Give it a try.

 

[grasshopper]

Al, we will renew your man-card this year. Ms G. was really excited when I [-]fixed[/-], got lucky and stopped the leaks in 2 faucets this week.

 

[TromboneAl]

Just called Moen, and they are sending me a new faucet.

 

[kaudrey]

Is the disposal still leaking? Mine was recently leaking from the area around the little button on the bottom, which was weird. I had to replace it (or, I should say, I bought it, and my SO replaced it!)

 

[ERD50]

... Moen is great. They already sent me replacement cartridges a few years ago. However, I would prefer that "Lifetime Warranty" meant "Never any problems" rather than "problems every few years that we will help you fix."

I wish there was a way to tell which products are the ones that 'never have problems'. Not literally 'never', but if I move up and pay 2x or 3x what the bottom rung faucets cost, I think it is reasonable to expect it to last 20 years with maybe a few washer/cartridge changes. It's a pain to change these things, I want them to last.

But it doesn't seem that going up in price has any relationship to long-term quality. And they change these things so often, who knows if brand XYZ that was good 5 years ago is good today?

-ERD50

 

[TromboneAl]

The good news is that I recently got a basin wrench at a garage sale, so that should make installation easier. Also, I've got a great device that makes it easier to lie on your back under the sink. Picture coming.

 

[easysurfer]

A basin wrench is worth its weigh in gold. When I changed the faucet, now way could I have done that without that wrench along with temporarily removing the disposal and underneath pipes to get some elbow room after crawling underneath the tight area under the sink.

 

[TromboneAl]

Also, I've got a great device that makes it easier to lie on your back under the sink. Picture coming.

I couldn't find a picture of it, but it's simply a plywood platform that's the same height as the floor of the cabinet under the sink. You put it right next to the cabinet, and you can lie on a flat surface instead of holding your butt up in the air. Without that, it's backbreakingly uncomfortable to work under there.

 

[easysurfer]

I couldn't find a picture of it, but it's simply a plywood platform that's the same height as the floor of the cabinet under the sink. You put it right next to the cabinet, and you can lie on a flat surface instead of holding your butt up in the air. Without that, it's backbreakingly uncomfortable to work under there.

Sounds like a simple, yet very effective solution.

 

[Lsbcal]

You guys who do these kinds of plumbing jobs are true heroes. Other then fiddling with cleaning out traps, I don't generally work under the sink. Unfortunately plumbers don't work for peanuts.

 

[Nodak]

Must be some sort of correlation between holidays and plumbing problems; my cousin's water heater sprung a leak on Christmas eve. With the monday holiday there was no hot water there until yesterday afternoon.

 

[deserat]

Must be some sort of correlation between holidays and plumbing problems; my cousin's water heater sprung a leak on Christmas eve. With the monday holiday there was no hot water there until yesterday afternoon.

+1 here - same thing - no hot water and it also provides our heating (water radiators here in Germany) - has happened two times before - once I had not hot water for 5 days! Of course hubby wasn't here then, so I gutted it out. This time he got to have the wonderful experience....over Christmas, no less.

They finally brought in the engineer - they don't speak very good English and my German isn't good enough for the technical terms they use (except for the blue collar four letter words ;-)) Plastic parts in water heaters aren't a good idea as they tend to heat up and cool down - thermally cycle and loosen up and then crack....don't know why they do this, but they've now replaced several parts several times. But the top of the water heater has a real nice digital panel and programmer....just can't heat water some times - huh!

We are moving in a couple of weeks, so goodbye oil heated water heaters and radiators - yahooo!

 

[TromboneAl]

OK, today is "be a plumber" day.

Here's that platform I mentioned, the basin wrench is on it:



And in action:



Here's the exact source of the leak around the garbage disposal. It only happens when you dump a lot of water into the sink at once. From the rust, you can see that it's been there a while.



So, I'll take that out, install the new sink then put the disposal back in, tightening or replace parts as necessary.

 

[Lsbcal]

OK, today is "be a plumber" day.
...

Maybe this should be designated "talk like a plumber Day". I've heard of talk-like-a-pirate day.

We should all go around saying things (in a deep voice) like
"Argh, hand me that monkey wrench DW" or
"where is that F*in washer?".

 

[TromboneAl]

I think I found the problem with the old faucet (broken gasket), but since I have a nice new one, I thought I'd go ahead and install it.

The big problem at this point is getting these things off:



These hand-tightened nuts are pretty frozen, I've gotten one halfway off, but I've had to fight for every quarter turn. I use my channel locks, there's no way this could be turned by hand.

Is there some tool that will help with this?

Also, I realized too late that Moen and plumbing stores are closed today.