Losing my ambition (that's me in the corner)

[Markola]

Through my 30s and 40s I used to write all of my goals on one index card each January and keep it in my wallet. One typical bullet was, "Become a national VP (in my field) in 5 years." Well, I accomplished that one and found out quickly that I do not like the extreme accountability to others and I really could not stand my highly-torqued CEO boss. I dialed it back to a director level at a different org with a truly nice boss and I am much happier. I haven't managed to write an index card in 2-3 years now, so that tells me I'm in a good groove. At 51, when I do write one next, a goal will be "Finish this current project, quit and slow travel the globe with my wife for a year." "Do more bonefishing." "Go to Aspen Ideas Festival once." Those are the kind of goals I'm driven to these days - for personal enjoyment and growth, bucket list stuff, not career stuff, which inspires more of a "been there, done that" feeling. I'm glad I still have that personal kind of ambition, at least!

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I liked the line from a song (Too Much Time on My Hands) at a recent Styx concert - I'm enjoying having nothing to do and all day to do it. I do have a lot of hobbies and we keep the calendar filled up - but it is mostly with fun stuff like hikes and concerts. I always have goals but they are just things like getting home repairs done, finish our decluttering projects, and working up to longer hikes.

 

[DrRoy]

Anyone else find that, as they get older, their drive and ambition diminishes?

What I mean is, I used to have lots of dreams and goals for myself. I read motivational books, strived to really do something with my life, dreamed big (not in conventional ways, but my own version), worked hard in my career, and was pretty goal-oriented. But as I've gotten older (55 now), I find a lot of that stuff has just dropped away.

I would say that I have not felt this happen to me so far (at 58, RE 3 mo ago). I was never a super career climber. There was too much hassle in management and too little reward to be a superstar performer. I have always been and remain pretty disciplined. I have plenty of plans for travel with DW and to expand my photography hobby. The overall energy level is not what it was 20 or 30 years ago, but I still do some hiking when we travel, for example.

 

[pb4uski]

OP and I could be brothers from a different mother.

I was very goal oriented and motivated early in my career, ending up with with a bachelor's degree, 3 professional certifications and an MBA by the time I was 30 and was running full tilt on the corporate hamster wheel with a Fortune 500 mega. I was in front of the Fortune 500 executive ladder and decided not to climb on since I wanted a better quality of life than I coud see the executive ranks had. I then joined a smaller mega and ran on their hamster wheel for a number of years and eventually plateaued with them and moved on to Big 4 advisory work. A couple years into that, when I was 45, I was approached about partnership and decided that I liked things just the way they were at that point and didn't care to get on the partnership hamster wheel either. I guess I was sort of like the guy that doesn't really care to go to the prom but still wants to be asked to go to the prom.

While from that point I was working for a paycheck, I still cared about our work and was passionate about our doing good work and providing outstanding client service but I wasn't going to run myself ragged doing it.

I find that I tire more easily now... we just finished our daughter's wedding and it was a bit of a DIY affair (their choice) but I am bushed and need rest/vacation.

 

[walkinwood]

My ambitions have changed since ER.

Now, my goal is to be mobile and healthy - physically and mental - to the end of my days, stay happily married, keep my friendships strong, continue to be curious about the world around me ... stuff like that. And of course, stay solvent till we exit. These aren't minor ambitions.

I think these ambitions is more meaningful to me than my "career" ever was, though the work itself was always something I enjoyed.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Happiness studies show people who lean into relationships and social connections are happiest: https://www.healthcentral.com/artic...ons-from-the-longestrunning-psychiatric-study

"We’re constantly told to lean in to work, to push harder and achieve more. We’re given the impression that these are the things that we need to go after in order to have a good life.....If this sounds like a life strategy you should strongly reconsider, you are absolutely correct, and Dr Waldinger has the data to back him up."

Added
Tedtalk video here:

https://www.ted.com/talks/robert_wa...est_study_on_happiness/transcript?language=en

 

[NW-Bound]

...I realized that I need some goals in my life again, that just "doing what I feel like" really wasn't producing results I liked. I too easily gravitated toward the easy, the familiar, the automatic.

So I've set some goals for myself, to help break me out of my comfortable complacency. I have no interest in becoming driven or ambitious again, but I do think I need goals and a sense of forward movement.

I set a goal of growing big juicy tomatoes. After a few trials, I think the best I can do is to grow a smaller grape type, as that somehow can handle the heat in the SW.

Another goal is to finish the redecking of my 2nd home. I was going gunho on it last summer, but discovery of roof rats up in the attic of my low-elevation home kept me from finishing it. Then the winter came, and I was busy with planning my long European road trip. I will be up there at 7,000 ft soon to finish placing all those expensive top-grade Trex planks that I already bought.

And then, I will replace the railings in stained redwood, in order to take a photo to post here for bragging rights. It's a bit of work for about 1000 sq.ft. deck, and 100 ft of railing. The triangular rear deck sits over a slope, and is 7 ft off the ground at its apex. The old deck lasted only 10 years before looking shabby. This new deck should last until I croak, as I will not be able to repeat this work.

 

[ls99]

Retired over ten years, most interests went by the wayside, widowed recently. Current minor ambition is to become a decent Argentine Tango dancer, will see how that turns out.

 

[Fedup]

I set a goal of growing big juicy tomatoes. After a few trials, I think the best I can do is to grow a smaller grape type, as that somehow can handle the heat in the SW.

Another goal is to finish the redecking of my 2nd home. I was going gunho on it last summer, but discovery of roof rats up in the attic of my low-elevation home kept me from finishing it. Then the winter came, and I was busy with planning my long European road trip. I will be up there at 7,000 ft soon to finish placing all those expensive top-grade Trex planks that I already bought.

And then, I will replace the railings in stained redwood, in order to take a photo to post here for bragging rights. It's a bit of work for about 1000 sq.ft. deck, and 100 ft of railing. The triangular rear deck sits over a slope, and is 7 ft off the ground at its apex. The old deck lasted only 10 years before looking shabby. This new deck should last until I croak, as I will not be able to repeat this work.

Same here. Somehow I used to be able to grow big juicy tomatoes but not this year. All cherry tomatoes. I don't know why. The plants are there but no fruit.

 

[timemoveson]

I was always extremely ambitious. Served me very well in my career but once I became FI it faded away to a large extent. That's when ER became so desireable. Everybody is different.

Once retired, it took a while to adapt to my new circumstances, but even now 11 years in, I doubt anyone would describe me as other than a Type A personality. Still, a lot more relaxed and easy going than when I was working.

That is going to be me exactly, sometime in the near future.

 

[LiveBelowMeans]

If it's a virus, I have it. I had the ambition to make it to the top and did. I used to think everyone was my competitor in climbing the ladder but found out otherwise. What I did learn was the stress of being the decision maker during the financial crisis was enough to make me question why I wanted the job in the first place. Most everyone else (who remained anyway), clocked out and went home. I didn't have that luxury.


Our owner and grandson of the company founder (whom I respect a great deal), told me during the worst of the crisis that his lifestyle wasn't affected at all by those serious economic events. At the time, my income was down 80% and I was losing $200,000 per year in net worth.


I got into the habit of leaving the office daily at 2:30pm because that's when the daily chest pains started and I figured I'd rather die at home than in the office. The company recovered nicely in the years since, but my ambition to make it larger and more successful left me during that time.


Currently working 10-15 hours per week and am putting myself out to pasture as quickly as I can without causing disruption in the business.

I can relate. Ran a manufacturing company with over 1000 employees for 15 years and managing thru the recession was brutal. retired at 53. Had enough of the stress.

 

[googily]

I could have written a lot of what OP has said, though I'm coming at it from almost the opposite tack. I don't think I ever had a lot of ambition--but I had parents who expected great things from me, followed by a husband I wanted to desperately to impress and keep up with. I had no great plans for my post-work future, other than to ER with DH and travel and enjoy life and beyond that, we were going to figure it out together. We were a team.

And now he's gone (died of cancer in March), and with having lost my mother four years ago, I find myself utterly adrift, without the two people who really were the engines that drove me.

But.... I am also just starting to find out what it's like to *finally* be able to just do nothing and not feel guilty about it. I used to protect my "alone time" vociferously, so that I could do nothing or very little and get away with it. And now--there's no one watching!

What I am finding out is that this all resulted in a lifetime of extreme anxiety, that is now ebbing (as long as I don't start to think about a future all alone). I'd give anything to have received this enlightenment in some way other than losing my soulmate, but it is what it is at this point.

Surprisingly, my 84-year-old dad is telling me to pull the rip cord and retire next year (at 51), because I have the means and there's no need to keep on doing it Just Because. To have heard that from him meant everything. Because he has pretty much spent the past 25 years, since he retired at 59 after achieving great things in his career, puttering through his days doing the things he wanted to do and little more.

I really appreciate this thread, because I have wanted to start a similar one, along the lines of "is it really okay to just do nothing?" The guilt remains strong.

 

[unclemick]

Beware. I who never volunteers can testify that doing nothing in particular requires skill and cunning. Work (now that you are not doing anything) a 'we need some volunteers to do yadda yadda' requires some effort to master without ticking some( of those you don't want to) off. It some instances it's unavoidable if you wish to stay 'free' in ER.

heh heh heh - I've a great run while it lasted. But life happens.. I shall live to love dirt and plant some trees.

 

[45th Birthday]

I have been thinking about this same issue for some time. I FIREd 11 years ago at the age of 45. Mostly because I had a chance to cash out at a great price, and also because I was tired of the stress of running a small company in a fast-changing industry. In the 15 years I owned/ran it, we changed strategy in a major way probably five times and each change was like stepping from a sinking rock onto a more stable one. All ended well, though.

I've never been one to make concrete goals and track them. Mostly, I just charged ahead in one direction until my head hit a brick wall and then turned around and charged in another.

Looking back to the days when I was working, I sometimes marvel at what I was able to accomplish. It was great fun, but also carried great stress. Now, I wonder how it was I was able to do that, and don't think I have it in me to do it again. I'm still at the age when many people would be doing what I did a time or two more.

I also sometimes think that maybe I'm not doing enough "big" things to contribute to the world. I've been pretty involved in not-for-profit work, but am currently between (unpaid) gigs.

Thinking about it, I think that there are several reasons I don't get more revved up to do more.

1) Financial Independence. The marginal utility from the next $X just isn't enough, and the risks to what I already have are too great.

2) Time away from the rat race means I'm not exposed to others who might give me a subconscious push to do more, and to "succeed" at Every Day is Saturday requires a totally different mindset.

3) I don't miss it. It's that simple. While I can look back and wonder how I was able to do what I did, I don't regret not doing it now.

 

[Totoro]

I really appreciate this thread, because I have wanted to start a similar one, along the lines of "is it really okay to just do nothing?" The guilt remains strong.

Thank you for sharing your story - it moved me! Just wanted to say this: fear (anxiety, guilt) are a great short term motivator, but a very poor long term one. Also, why have that in your life?

It is perfectly fine to not do anything, as long as you can accept the consequences (financial or otherwise). Try to be a good and compassionate person, yes, of course. But ambition is only great as long as it works for you, not when it eats away at you.

 

[Walt34]

I really appreciate this thread, because I have wanted to start a similar one, along the lines of "is it really okay to just do nothing?" The guilt remains strong.

This is one of the adjustments one has to make in retirement. I had an insight to this one time shortly after retirement sitting on the back porch with a glass of wine, feeling a little guilty because I wasn't "doing anything" and had nothing scheduled for the immediate future.

It then occurred to me that all my life since kindergarten, I was "supposed" to be doing something and I hadn't had that kind of unscheduled life since I was four. I then realized that now I had reached the goal. I don't have to do anything except meet the basic responsibilities of any mature adult.

Nords wrote a great piece on this phenomenon several years ago:

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f30/the-fog-of-work-42328.html

 

[googily]

Thank you for sharing your story - it moved me! Just wanted to say this: fear (anxiety, guilt) are a great short term motivator, but a very poor long term one. Also, why have that in your life?

It is perfectly fine to not do anything, as long as you can accept the consequences (financial or otherwise). Try to be a good and compassionate person, yes, of course. But ambition is only great as long as it works for you, not when it eats away at you.

Thank you--and I should admit that my "nothing" is probably not truly "nothing" -- I do have a side hustle that I would probably keep at even once I quit working full time, and I'm sure I will come up with all sorts of little projects to keep myself occupied. Maybe it's just more about a slower pace, and about only doing the stuff I want to do.

However, despite my lack of ambition, I did end up with a pretty good job for the past, oh, 20 years. So I succeeded in spite of myself.

 

[googily]

Nords wrote a great piece on this phenomenon several years ago:

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f30/the-fog-of-work-42328.html

Thank you for this link!

 

[ER Eddie]

My favorite times are when I don't have to do anything. When I was a kid, my favorite times were vacations.

But then, I always liked school, too, and after a long time of "doing nothing," I inevitably wanted to get something done.

So it's a balance. The main thing for me is to have goals that are self-chosen, rather than a "should" or a "have to."

 

[Scuba]

Thank you for this link!

Yes, thank you! Loved the original post by Nords - "being" rather than "doing" is exactly what I need to focus on more. Very thought-provoking!

 

[Elbata]

Interesting thread and something I've given a lot of thought.

Not only has my outlook changed, but now I realize that me in 10 years will be different than me today, and I should take that into account with my plans.

Also, while not as productive as when having my own business, I'm still open to helping out, just not on a set schedule.

What I like most about retirement is time to think. And though that idea may come off as trivial, it's something that I do like to devote time.

 

[Markola]

But ambition is only great as long as it works for you, not when it eats away at you.

This might be the key to this thread. Most of here had to have above average ambition to build a career or business and put aside a stash. Now we're on an ER forum, because we've either gone or are going in the opposite direction toward more personal time and freedom. It can be confusing to ourselves and maybe others. I know I wonder about how my comfort level will be 2.5 years from now when DW and I plan to have the opportunity to start living off of our portfolio. My own ambition is now running toward taking a year off to travel then semi-retirement. But will I have the _alls when the time comes to quit? Our ambition has served us well so far but we can sense the end of its usefulness coming earlier than most we know in daily life.

 

[Maenad]

I would say that as long as a person is happy, losing ambition isn't a problem. If it's accompanied by a more general malaise, then a visit to a doctor or therapist to help may be in order.

My ambitions have mostly been towards maximizing income while minimizing work-related expenses, so I've stayed in the technical roles rather than moving into management, with the associated pressures to "live large" and the time crunch that makes it difficult to cook for myself, etc. I recently realized that I've pretty much maxed out how high I want to go, and we're projecting FI in less than 1.5 years, so it really isn't worth it to keep striving.

 

[street]

I haven't lost the ambition for my hobbies and the great outdoors. If I wouldn't have them I might be very depressed. I work a part time job that I only can get 90 days of work in a year. I find it a nice balance for me and kind of weans me from slowly from loosing my fire and ambition for now. I would bet with high goal setters here this is a problem for a lot of people. I'm not saying loosing ambition is bad it is our way of life for so many years to be busy.

 

[spncity]

I was going to answer your post, but I found out on another thread that I'm too lazy to do so.

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