Medicare-MoO, any positive experiences?

[Rianne]

Thanks for the chart, CRLLS. In Illinois, MoO is less expensive than AARP until you reach 85 and the increase is not astronomical. It looks like the state you live in matters. My broker is calling me today to go through this in detail.

 

[harllee]

Thanks for the chart, CRLLS. In Illinois, MoO is less expensive than AARP until you reach 85 and the increase is not astronomical. It looks like the state you live in matters. My broker is calling me today to go through this in detail.

Be sure to ask your broker about whether the Mutual of Omaha (or any other company) is known to "close the books" in your state and substantially increase premiums for the insureds who are left.

 

[lawman]

I live in Texas and have Omaha Supplemental Company (plan G )which is one of many companies owned by MoO. I called them and learned that the book is still open on this company but that they do in fact close books and start new companies. Does anyone here know if they are allowed to do this in Texas?

 

[Telly]

I live in Texas and have Omaha Supplemental Company (plan G )which is one of many companies owned by MoO. I called them and learned that the book is still open on this company but that they do in fact close books and start new companies. Does anyone here know if they are allowed to do this in Texas?

In Texas? Absolutely! They have and do! And in most states, too. But in some states (a small number), one can change Part B provider every year if you wanted to, without having to go through medical underwriting.
If you can pass underwriting for another Medigap company you might be interested in, you can change. But don't let it go too long, lest you be stuck.
IIRC, MoO books stay open for ~ 5 years in TX. It's all up to them.


EDIT: I know very little about those special states that have different rules than the majority. For those states, I am NOT a source of information! There are people here who are versed in those details. I am not one of them.

 

[lawman]

In Texas? Absolutely! They have and do! And in most states, too. But in some states (a small number), one can change Part B provider every year if you wanted to, without having to go through medical underwriting.
If you can pass underwriting for another Plan B company you might be interested in, you can change. But don't let it go too long, lest you be stuck.
IIRC, MoO books stay open for ~ 5 years in TX. It's all up to them.


EDIT: I know very little about those special states that have different rules than the majority. For those states, I am NOT a source of information! There are people here who are versed in those details. I am not one of them.

Thanks..I may already be stuck but I intend to find out..

 

[Rianne]

I guess I don’t understand the term “closing the books” I spoke with MoO customer service and my broker. It is illegal to force someone out of their Medicare plan and have to get underwriting unless they stop paying their premiums. Many people switch Medicare insurance companies during open enrollment and go with a cheaper plan. Most if not all insurance companies raise their premiums at some point.

The SHIP chart for Illinois is as accurate as shown. I cannot speak for other states. My monthly premium is $92. My husband’s is $104. I asked my broker about closing the books. He did not know that term. If it means MoO changes anything within their company, it does not change your Medicare coverage. If premiums go up, please share what company does not increase premiums at some point. Every company offers incentives, discounts, other health incentives like gym membership etc. what is the deal with MoO?

 

[Dash man]

I guess I don’t understand the term “closing the books” I spoke with MoO customer service and my broker. It is illegal to force someone out of their Medicare plan and have to get underwriting unless they stop paying their premiums. Many people switch Medicare insurance companies during open enrollment and go with a cheaper plan. Most if not all insurance companies raise their premiums at some point.

The SHIP chart for Illinois is as accurate as shown. I cannot speak for other states. My monthly premium is $92. My husband’s is $104. I asked my broker about closing the books. He did not know that term. If it means MoO changes anything within their company, it does not change your Medicare coverage. If premiums go up, please share what company does not increase premiums at some point. Every company offers incentives, discounts, other health incentives like gym membership etc. what is the deal with MoO?

Closing the books refers to not allowing new members to join that plan. As the group of people in the plan age, they raise the premiums to pay for the older group, which typically are less healthy as they age.

 

[REWahoo]

Closing the books refers to not allowing new members to join that plan. As the group of people in the plan age, they raise the premiums to pay for the older group, which typically are less healthy as they age.

+1

And by isolating this group of aging and presumably less healthy folks, a new "book" (Company) can open up and sell Medigap policies to younger, healthier folks new to Medicare and to older as well, as long as they are healthy enough to pass underwriting. The premiums for this younger, healthier "book" of insureds can be lower, at least for a few years, until the book is closed...rinse and repeat.

MoO pioneered this "close the book" strategy, something that is now fairly common in the Medigap insurance industry, at least to some degree. MBSC will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this strategy is only associated with attained age rated policies.

 

[teej1985]

+1

And by isolating this group of aging and presumably less healthy folks, a new "book" (Company) can open up and sell Medigap policies to younger, healthier folks new to Medicare and to older as well, as long as they are healthy enough to pass underwriting. The premiums for this younger, healthier "book" of insureds can be lower, at least for a few years, until the book is closed...rinse and repeat.

MoO pioneered this "close the book" strategy, something that is now fairly common in the Medigap insurance industry, at least to some degree. MBSC will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this strategy is only associated with attained age rated policies.

There is no reason for the strategy to be limited to attained age policies. I guarantee that MoO also does this in states which "Issue Age" policies are required.

 

[REWahoo]

There is no reason for the strategy to be limited to attained age policies. I guarantee that MoO also does this in states which "Issue Age" policies are required.

OK, I've been wrong on at least one other occasion.

I think it important to point out that MoO may have been the first and most aggressive with this strategy, however they are not the only insurer doing it. So if someone is concerned about this issue, simply staying away from MoO isn't necessarily going to insure you avoid the problem.

 

[MBSC]

2013 Illinois Medicare Supplement Premium Guide (Chicago area).
Page 25: Mutual of Omaha Insurance Company

https://silo.tips/download/medicare-supplement-premium-comparison-guide-3

2021 Illinois Medicare Supplement Premium Guide (Chicago area).
Page 28: Omaha Insurance Company

https://www2.illinois.gov/aging/xxship/Documents/ChicagoMedSupWeb.pdf

Person 'x' bought a "Mutual of Omaha Insurance Co." policy in 2013. Their policy terms have not changed. What has changed is that new enrollees who are younger and healthier are now being placed into "Omaha Insurance Co.".

The "Mutual of Omaha" pool/book/subsidiary/company is getting older and less healthy without the new enrollments. Premiums are adjusted to reflect their increased costs. All plans have rate increases but this amplifies the increase. Typically, it's just a matter of time before a new pool/book is opened and the current "Omaha Insurance" no longer accepts new enrollments.

 

[teej1985]

OK, I've been wrong on at least one other occasion.

I think it important to point out that MoO may have been the first and most aggressive with this strategy, however they are not the only insurer doing it. So if someone is concerned about this issue, simply staying away from MoO isn't necessarily going to insure you avoid the problem.

Depending on your state, you can see a list of all Medigap insurers. You can see who owns these companies. The obvious ones to me were Aetna nad MoO. I saw no evidence of BCBS, State Farm or USAA doing this.

 

[REWahoo]

The obvious ones to me were Aetna nad MoO.

I think you may have missed Cigna.

 

[lawman]

My next question is for someone who cannot pass underwriting with another company I wonder just how high one could expect premiums to go....Surely there is a law that limits that otherwise as the group ages and dies their premiums would eventually go into thousands of dollars...

 

[REWahoo]

My next question is for someone who cannot pass underwriting with another company I wonder just how high one could expect premiums to go....Surely there is a law that limits that otherwise as the group ages and dies their premiums would eventually go into thousands of dollars...

I think limitations, if any, would be determined by the insurance regulating authority in each state.

If someone finds themselves in this situation and are faced with unacceptable premiums, there is a one time "get out of jail" loophole. A bit of a pain to do, but might end up worth the effort:

Medigap underwriting loophole

 

[Rianne]

Fair enough, but we’re talking about insurance companies. All Insurance companies change their premiums and coverage based on many factors:

-Car insurance for teenagers, even boy vs girl are different premiums
-Life insurance for smokers
-I can’t get an affordable life insurance policy because I had cancer
-Dare you get homeowners insurance in a flood plain?
-if you’re a small business owner or independent contractor, good luck getting affordable health insurance if you earn over $100K
-Get 3 moving violations and good luck with car insurance
-Now the medical community is pushing everyone to get DNA testing to see if certain diseases run in the family. You think that might affect insurance premiums?

All insurance has perimeters to make money one way or another. Why should Medicare be different? I’m just happy to have Medicare. If my Medicare premium went up 50%, I’ll be paying ~ $150/ month (of course + $170.10). It doesn’t seem that bad.

 

[harllee]

My next question is for someone who cannot pass underwriting with another company I wonder just how high one could expect premiums to go....Surely there is a law that limits that otherwise as the group ages and dies their premiums would eventually go into thousands of dollars...

My DH is one of the people who is trapped in a Mutual of Omaha policy. The MofO company he is with (named Mutual of Omaha) quit writing new policies in our state and they started a new company (named Omaha Insurance Company) to write policies for younger healthier people. DH cannot pass underwriting to change to another company. He is trapped and his premiums are going up about 30% per year. I know of no limit on the amount the premium could go, we assume it could go up into the thousands. We understand that he has a couple of options. He can go with an Advantage plan and (then possibly back to a traditional plan under a loophole that we do not really understand) or we can move to a state that allows him to change policies without underwriting. Neither are good options for him. One saving grace is that I was able to get out of MofO because I passed underwriting and I was able to get a very inexpensive policy from AARP UHC so the cost of our combined policies is not too awful right now.

 

[lawman]

My DH is one of the people who is trapped in a Mutual of Omaha policy. The MofO company he is with (named Mutual of Omaha) quit writing new policies in our state and they started a new company (named Omaha Insurance Company) to write policies for younger healthier people. DH cannot pass underwriting to change to another company. He is trapped and his premiums are going up about 30% per year. I know of no limit on the amount the premium could go, we assume it could go up into the thousands. We understand that he has a couple of options. He can go with an Advantage plan and (then possibly back to a traditional plan under a loophole that we do not really understand) or we can move to a state that allows him to change policies without underwriting. Neither are good options for him. One saving grace is that I was able to get out of MofO because I passed underwriting and I was able to get a very inexpensive policy from AARP UHC so the cost of our combined policies is not too awful right now.

This from Mutual of Omaha website .."Rate increases aren’t personal. You can’t be singled out for a rate increase, no matter how many times you receive benefits. Your premium changes each year on the renewal date with or following the anniversary of the policy date until you reach age 99; and when the same premium change is made on all in-force Medicare supplemental insurance policies of the same form of classification and geographic region of the state."


Whatever that means..


I'm wondering if anyone here can give an example of a policy doubling or tripling from the original price..

 

[harllee]

This from Mutual of Omaha website .."Rate increases aren’t personal. You can’t be singled out for a rate increase, no matter how many times you receive benefits. Your premium changes each year on the renewal date with or following the anniversary of the policy date until you reach age 99; and when the same premium change is made on all in-force Medicare supplemental insurance policies of the same form of classification and geographic region of the state."


Whatever that means..


I'm wondering if anyone here can give an example of a policy doubling or tripling from the original price..

Yes MofO must treat all the policy holders of the same age etc the same in each of their companies.. How MofO gets around that is that the close down the original company and start writing new policies under a different company with a different name so they can charge different rates in the new company. All the old sick people are stuck in the old company. The new company has the younger healthy people and much lower rates. After a few years they close the newer company and start a third company. My DH started with MofO at age 65 and he is now 71, his policy premium has more than doubled (actually it has gone up about 150%) in those 6 years.

 

[REWahoo]

My DH started with MofO at age 65 and he is now 71, his policy premium has more than doubled (actually it has gone up about 150%) in those 6 years.

MoO rate increases obviously vary by state, by Plan and other factors. I started with MoO (Plan N) at age 71 and they closed the book on me the following year. In the four years I've had the policy my premium has increased by 40% and I'm now paying $123/mo.

Clearly this is a product where YMMV when it comes to premium increases.

 

[Rianne]

OP here. I guess a better thread would be:
What were your premiums when you started with a Medicare Supplement?
What company did you start with?
How long have you been on Medicare?
What are your premiums now?

That would give us a better understanding of Medicare Supplement companies and how much premiums go up over time.

My edit: I just spoke with a SHIP representative in Illinois. I'll say that was an informative discussion about Illinois. She could not speak about other states. She said ILL is strict about Medicare companies and their strategies to make money. Other states may be laxer. Regarding closing the book, she had not heard of that strategy. But she said every insurance company changes to meet higher health costs and to make a profit. Premiums go up with all the companies in one way or another. The discussion went deeper but TMI would probably bore you.

She said Medicare insurance companies have gone out of business too. If that's the case in ILL you get a special open enrollment benefit where you can pick a new company with no underwriting.

 

[harllee]

Here are my numbers: I started on Medicare Plan G in NC in 2017 with MofO, my premium was about $80 per month. In 2020 I got a notice that MofO premium was going up to $190 (more than doubling). I found out that MofO has closed the book on me, discontinued selling policies from the company I was with and started a new company in NC. Fortunately I was able to pass underwriting and changed in 2020 to AARP UHC Plan G (my husband was not to able to pass underwriting and is stuck with MofO). In 2020 my AARP UHC policy was $90 per month. Now 3 years later my AARP UHC policy has gone up a little to $105 per month. If I had stayed with MofO my Plan G policy would now be over $250 per month.

 

[Rianne]

Here are my numbers: I started on Medicare Plan G in NC in 2017 with MofO, my premium was about $80 per month. In 2020 I got a notice that MofO premium was going up to $190 (more than doubling). I found out that MofO has closed the book on me, discontinued selling policies from the company I was with and started a new company in NC. Fortunately I was able to pass underwriting and changed in 2020 to AARP UHC Plan G (my husband was not to able to pass underwriting and is stuck with MofO). In 2020 my AARP UHC policy was $90 per month. Now 3 years later my AARP UHC policy has gone up a little to $105 per month. If I had stayed with MofO my Plan G policy would now be over $250 per month.

I edited my previous quote which may address what happened to you. SHIP is Illinois-specific. As the SHIP rep said, different states may be more lenient with what insurance supplement companies can do.

 

[lawman]

I'm 67 and have had MoO for two years..Slight increase last year. The MoO subsidiary I'm with is Omaha Supplemental Company. It started in 2019. MoO told me yesterday that this subsidiary is still open but that they do close after a few years. She said they currently have 6 open companies writing Medigap policies. I will try to change to UHC but my wife may not be able to pass underwriting..Seems like this should be illegal..

 

[harllee]

I'm 67 and have had MoO for two years..Slight increase last year. The MoO subsidiary I'm with is Omaha Supplemental Company. It started in 2019. MoO told me yesterday that this subsidiary is still open but that they do close after a few years. She said they currently have 6 open companies writing Medigap policies. I will try to change to UHC but my wife may not be able to pass underwriting..Seems like this should be illegal..

Why in the world would MofO constantly close companies and have 6 open companies writing Medicare Supplements? The only reason is to be able to get away with large premium increases. Awful, awful, awful company! Get away from them if you can.