Medicare-MoO, any positive experiences?

Rianne said:
OP here. I guess a better thread would be:
What were your premiums when you started with a Medicare Supplement?
What company did you start with?
How long have you been on Medicare?
What are your premiums now?

That would give us a better understanding of Medicare Supplement companies and how much premiums go up over time.

My edit: I just spoke with a SHIP representative in Illinois. I'll say that was an informative discussion about Illinois. She could not speak about other states. She said ILL is strict about Medicare companies and their strategies to make money. Other states may be laxer. Regarding closing the book, she had not heard of that strategy. But she said every insurance company changes to meet higher health costs and to make a profit. Premiums go up with all the companies in one way or another. The discussion went deeper but TMI would probably bore you.

She said Medicare insurance companies have gone out of business too. If that's the case in ILL you get a special open enrollment benefit where you can pick a new company with no underwriting.
Click to expand...


Another user had already shared links to two different MoO insurers in Illinois showing they conducted this strategy in Illinois.

It's like you want to believe that you can't be affected for some reason.

edit:

This was the post you seemed to overlook:

MBSC said:
2013 Illinois Medicare Supplement Premium Guide (Chicago area).
Page 25: Mutual of Omaha Insurance Company

https://silo.tips/download/medicare-supplement-premium-comparison-guide-3

2021 Illinois Medicare Supplement Premium Guide (Chicago area).
Page 28: Omaha Insurance Company

https://www2.illinois.gov/aging/xxship/Documents/ChicagoMedSupWeb.pdf

Person 'x' bought a "Mutual of Omaha Insurance Co." policy in 2013. Their policy terms have not changed. What has changed is that new enrollees who are younger and healthier are now being placed into "Omaha Insurance Co.".

The "Mutual of Omaha" pool/book/subsidiary/company is getting older and less healthy without the new enrollments. Premiums are adjusted to reflect their increased costs. All plans have rate increases but this amplifies the increase. Typically, it's just a matter of time before a new pool/book is opened and the current "Omaha Insurance" no longer accepts new enrollments.
Click to expand...
 
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harllee said:
Why in the world would MofO constantly close companies and have 6 open companies writing Medicare Supplements? The only reason is to be able to get away with large premium increases. Awful, awful, awful company! Get away from them if you can.
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harlee, I realize your question is rhetorical! :)

But for others just tuning in, it allows MoO to have low starter rates for the vast multitude that come in at age 65 to be "competitive". Allows them to sweep in many people. And a plus can be "they haven't raised rates for the last two years, and are not raising it this year". A big draw to those who are not aware of the book game.

But behind the scenes, I'll opine that the nice "competitive rates" are not sustainable over time. Once the first in to that specific company "book" have aged a few years, it's time to close that book and start another with teaser rates. Legal? Yes. I share with harlee that it is not ethical. I have no desire to reinforce the wrong behavioral characteristics.

As far as SHIP counselors, brokers, etc., either they know the disadvantages and are not telling, or they are ignorant to the finer details of the Medigap policy business.

To those who think this can't be happening, it can. The new book is a new company. Closing the old book does not force someone to lose their policy. It does not fail the "you will not be individually penalized" concept. The whole cohort in the specific state gets the shaft together. They continue to pay to who they paid to. They have no connection to the new book company.

As told repeatedly in other threads, I did a lot of research before turning 65, paid for a month of broker-market software access at CSGActuarial.com (or maybe it's CGS~, don't remember) to dig through all of this before starting Medicare. But I made one critical mistake in my research. I should have spent $10 more, to get the rate history over years. I would like to think that if I saw years of no rate increases, that something was up, that is NOT sustainable!
But the MoO company in TX was "United World". I would have had no idea at the time that that was anything but the name that was being used in TX for a long time.

However, when I later got hit with a 15% rate increase, I started looking around, and found that they started selling Medigap policies in TX under a different name, "OSIC", for Omaha Supplemental Insurance Company. That is what lawman has.
I then spent a lot of time trying to find out what was going on, and did. All over the country, MoO closes books and opens new ones. State by state. Any broker selling MoO knows that. The info would inform that in state xx effective date nn/nn/nnnn, no new policies could be written on (United World in TX, for example). That new forms were coming available before that date that must be used, with the new company name, and that exciting low competitive rates would be offered.

I am not an insurance expert. My only connection to insurance is buying it when needed.

My experience with other people 65 and up about Medicare, is that almost no one really knows anything! The comment I got time and time again was "but I could stay with my same doctors!" That's all they knew, that's all they cared about. Many did not know whether they had a MA Plan, or Original Medicare with a Medigap Plan! Where there are sheep, there are shearers. And these are big-dollar sheep for the shearers.

We have built up a small knowledge base on this website, we have some people here that are thinkers, and dig into things when something goes awry. This is unusual! And I would like to thank all of you that have brought your knowledge and stories to the forefront, you are great folks!
 
3 years ago I was paying 164/month for my blue cross supplement. Last year it went up 20/month. I have to buy through via benefits to keep my 195 hsa reimbursement per month so didn’t have options to switch to a cheaper plan last year. I am really hoping that there’s something cheaper this year but won’t know until the 15th.
 
You guys are gonna love this..I just called MofO at 1-800-775-6000. The customer service rep told me MofO has 5 affiliates that write Medigap policies and that they have NEVER closed the books on any company and have never stopped writing business in any of them. We talked about it for a good while just to be sure he understood my concern and he assured me MofO has never done that and would never do it. He said to do that would be unethical.:LOL:
 
lawman said:
You guys are gonna love this..I just called MofO at 1-800-775-6000. The customer service rep told me MofO has 5 affiliates that write Medigap policies and that they have NEVER closed the books on any company and have never stopped writing business in any of them. We talked about it for a good while just to be sure he understood my concern and he assured me MofO has never done that and would never do it. He said to do that would be unethical.:LOL:
Click to expand...

It probably is true that all of their affiliates are actively writing in at least one state somewhere.
 
harllee said:
Mutual of Omaha is known for "closing the book" on older policy holders. MofO stops selling new policies under one company name in a state and substantially increase premiums for the policy holders under that closed company name. Then they open a new company under a different name in the state for younger policy holders with lower premiums. As a consequence older policy holders will see substantial increase in premiums and often will not be able to move to another company because they cannot pass underwriting. While not illegal, this is a very questionable business and unethical practice in my opinion. Most companies (like United Health Care and Blue Cross) do not engage in this practice.
Click to expand...

Can you give an example?
 
Telly said:
harlee, I realize your question is rhetorical! :)

But for others just tuning in, it allows MoO to have low starter rates for the vast multitude that come in at age 65 to be "competitive". Allows them to sweep in many people. And a plus can be "they haven't raised rates for the last two years, and are not raising it this year". A big draw to those who are not aware of the book game.

But behind the scenes, I'll opine that the nice "competitive rates" are not sustainable over time. Once the first in to that specific company "book" have aged a few years, it's time to close that book and start another with teaser rates. Legal? Yes. I share with harlee that it is not ethical. I have no desire to reinforce the wrong behavioral characteristics.

As far as SHIP counselors, brokers, etc., either they know the disadvantages and are not telling, or they are ignorant to the finer details of the Medigap policy business.

To those who think this can't be happening, it can. The new book is a new company. Closing the old book does not force someone to lose their policy. It does not fail the "you will not be individually penalized" concept. The whole cohort in the specific state gets the shaft together. They continue to pay to who they paid to. They have no connection to the new book company.

As told repeatedly in other threads, I did a lot of research before turning 65, paid for a month of broker-market software access at CSGActuarial.com (or maybe it's CGS~, don't remember) to dig through all of this before starting Medicare. But I made one critical mistake in my research. I should have spent $10 more, to get the rate history over years. I would like to think that if I saw years of no rate increases, that something was up, that is NOT sustainable!
But the MoO company in TX was "United World". I would have had no idea at the time that that was anything but the name that was being used in TX for a long time.

However, when I later got hit with a 15% rate increase, I started looking around, and found that they started selling Medigap policies in TX under a different name, "OSIC", for Omaha Supplemental Insurance Company. That is what lawman has.
I then spent a lot of time trying to find out what was going on, and did. All over the country, MoO closes books and opens new ones. State by state. Any broker selling MoO knows that. The info would inform that in state xx effective date nn/nn/nnnn, no new policies could be written on (United World in TX, for example). That new forms were coming available before that date that must be used, with the new company name, and that exciting low competitive rates would be offered.

I am not an insurance expert. My only connection to insurance is buying it when needed.

My experience with other people 65 and up about Medicare, is that almost no one really knows anything! The comment I got time and time again was "but I could stay with my same doctors!" That's all they knew, that's all they cared about. Many did not know whether they had a MA Plan, or Original Medicare with a Medigap Plan! Where there are sheep, there are shearers. And these are big-dollar sheep for the shearers.

We have built up a small knowledge base on this website, we have some people here that are thinkers, and dig into things when something goes awry. This is unusual! And I would like to thank all of you that have brought your knowledge and stories to the forefront, you are great folks!
Click to expand...

I can't find anything on the internet about this practice by MofO. Any additional evidence of this would be apprciated..Thanks..
 
lawman said:
Can you give an example?
Click to expand...

This is what happened to me and my husband. We live in North Carolina. We both bought Plan G policies from Mutual of Omaha when we turned 65, premiums around $90 each per month.. For the next 3 years all was well, just small increases each year. When we each reached 68 Mutual of Omaha substantially increased our premiums to about $180 each. We immediately started looking for other insurers. I was able to go with AARP UHC Plan G for about $100 per month. Husband has a preexisiting medical condition and could not pass underwriting to move to any other insurer so he is stuck with Mutual of Omaha. I did some research, contacted NC Dept of Insurance and found that Mutual of Omaha was no longer writing new Medicare policies in North Carolina, they were keeping their old insureds but those who could not move to another insurer are stuck with them at exorbitant rates. At the same time they closed "Mutual of Omaha" in NC they started a new company in NC selling Medicare Supplements under the name "Omaha Insurance Company" with Plan G policies for $125.

Do a search on this Forum for "Mutual of Omaha" and you will find examples of other people with this same issue. I have talked with several agents and was told that this is a common tactic by Mutual Of Omaha.
 
harllee said:
This is what happened to me and my husband. We live in North Carolina. We both bought Plan G policies from Mutual of Omaha when we turned 65, premiums around $90 each per month.. For the next 3 years all was well, just small increases each year. When we each reached 68 Mutual of Omaha substantially increased our premiums to about $180 each. We immediately started looking for other insurers. I was able to go with AARP UHC Plan G for about $100 per month. Husband has a preexisiting medical condition and could not pass underwriting to move to any other insurer so he is stuck with Mutual of Omaha. I did some research, contacted NC Dept of Insurance and found that Mutual of Omaha was no longer writing new Medicare policies in North Carolina, they were keeping their old insureds but those who could not move to another insurer are stuck with them at exorbitant rates. At the same time they closed "Mutual of Omaha" in NC they started a new company in NC selling Medicare Supplements under the name "Omaha Insurance Company" with Plan G policies for $125.

Do a search on this Forum for "Mutual of Omaha" and you will find examples of other people with this same issue. I have talked with several agents and was told that this is a common tactic by Mutual Of Omaha.
Click to expand...

Should be illegal..As of today I have been accepted by UHC but still waiting to hear from them for my wife..THaNKS!
 
lawman said:
I can't find anything on the internet about this practice by MofO. Any additional evidence of this would be apprciated..Thanks..
Click to expand...
2021 Illinois Medicare Supplement Enrollment

HCSC (BCBS-IL) 352,005
UnitedHealthcare Ins Co 111,245
*United World Life Ins Co 50,593
Aetna Hlth Ins Co 46,737
*Mutual Of Omaha Ins Co 37,203
Country Life Ins Co 19,159
Cigna Hlth & Life Ins Co 12,991
*Omaha Life Ins Co 8,576
American Continental Ins Co 6,866
State Farm Mut Auto Ins Co 6,101

2021 North Carolina Medicare Supplement Enrollment

BCBS of NC Inc 157,386
UnitedHealthcare Ins Co 112,699
*United World Life Ins Co 42,039
Aetna Hlth Ins Co 26,878
*Mutual Of Omaha Ins Co 25,197
*Omaha Life Ins Co 12,565
Colonial Penn Life Ins Co 8,920
Cigna Hlth & Life Ins Co 7,892
Aetna Hlth & Life Ins Co 6,753
USAA Life Ins Co 6,239

2021 Texas Medicare Supplement Enrollment

UnitedHealthcare Ins Co 203,897
HCSC (BCBS-TX) 159,331
*Omaha Supplemental Ins Co 73,102
Aetna Hlth Ins Co 61,056
*United World Life Ins Co 52,110
Cigna Hlth & Life Ins Co 32,261
Continental Life Ins Co 30,445
USAA Life Ins Co 29,957
*Omaha Ins Co 21,430
*Omaha Life Ins Co 20,549

(*) Mutual of Omaha companies
 
MBSC said:
2021 Illinois Medicare Supplement Enrollment

HCSC (BCBS-IL) 352,005
UnitedHealthcare Ins Co 111,245
*United World Life Ins Co 50,593
Aetna Hlth Ins Co 46,737
*Mutual Of Omaha Ins Co 37,203
Country Life Ins Co 19,159
Cigna Hlth & Life Ins Co 12,991
*Omaha Life Ins Co 8,576
American Continental Ins Co 6,866
State Farm Mut Auto Ins Co 6,101

2021 North Carolina Medicare Supplement Enrollment

BCBS of NC Inc 157,386
UnitedHealthcare Ins Co 112,699
*United World Life Ins Co 42,039
Aetna Hlth Ins Co 26,878
*Mutual Of Omaha Ins Co 25,197
*Omaha Life Ins Co 12,565
Colonial Penn Life Ins Co 8,920
Cigna Hlth & Life Ins Co 7,892
Aetna Hlth & Life Ins Co 6,753
USAA Life Ins Co 6,239

2021 Texas Medicare Supplement Enrollment

UnitedHealthcare Ins Co 203,897
HCSC (BCBS-TX) 159,331
*Omaha Supplemental Ins Co 73,102
Aetna Hlth Ins Co 61,056
*United World Life Ins Co 52,110
Cigna Hlth & Life Ins Co 32,261
Continental Life Ins Co 30,445
USAA Life Ins Co 29,957
*Omaha Ins Co 21,430
*Omaha Life Ins Co 20,549

(*) Mutual of Omaha companies
Click to expand...

Interesting numbers..In Texas I see 4 MofO companies. I'm told there are at least 5. I wish we could know the number of companies they have closed the book on..I can think of no ethical reason for closing the book..Thanks
 
lawman said:
Interesting numbers..In Texas I see 4 MofO companies. I'm told there are at least 5. I wish we could know the number of companies they have closed the book on..I can think of no ethical reason for closing the book..Thanks
Click to expand...

Profits of course. This has been exhaustively explained on this forum but people don't seem to want to believe it of course.
 
lawman said:
Can anyone give me the name of a MofO company in Texas that has closed the book?
Click to expand...

Texas? Sure.

United World (a MoO company) closed the book in July of 2019. In August of 2019 MoO began selling Medigap policies under a new subsidiary, Omaha Insurance Company, which closed the book in July of 2022. Not sure of the name of the latest MoO company.
 
Sunset said:
All this talk of MoO closing the book, has me concerned as we signed up with a MoO.
How does a person switch to another company ?
Click to expand...

Depends on your state. In most states you have to apply with a new company and go through health underwriting. In a few states you can change during certain times of the year without underwriting. In any event you would start by figuring out the company you want to switch to, go to their website and complete an application. I switched from MofO to AARP/UHC.
 
Sunset said:
All this talk of MoO closing the book, has me concerned as we signed up with a MoO.
How does a person switch to another company ?
Click to expand...


If you’re still within six months of turning 65, you can change with no underwriting.
 
Last edited:
lawman said:
Can anyone give me the name of a MofO company in Texas that has closed the book?
Click to expand...

REWahoo said:
Texas? Sure.

United World (a MoO company) closed the book in July of 2019. In August of 2019 MoO began selling Medigap policies under a new subsidiary, Omaha Insurance Company, which closed the book in July of 2022. Not sure of the name of the latest MoO company.
Click to expand...

The latest MoO in TX is Mutual of Omaha Insurance Company (MOIC for short).
DW just received a mailer from them.

"New, Lower Medicare Supplement Insurance Rates In Texas"
"You Can Switch Now See What You Save"

Uh-huh, sure. But for how long? That's a rhetorical question. :nonono:
 
For those that are stuck in dead / closed pool you maybe able to do this:

You can switch from a Medicare Supplement plan (Plan G) to a Medicare Advantage ( 5 star) plan for the first time and then switch back to a Supplement plan (Plan G) within 12 months without medical underwriting with a different insurance company if the insurance company no longer sells (closed, dead pool) Medicare Supplement plans.
 
adlerps said:
For those that are stuck in dead / closed pool you maybe able to do this:

You can switch from a Medicare Supplement plan (Plan G) to a Medicare Advantage ( 5 star) plan for the first time and then switch back to a Supplement plan (Plan G) within 12 months without medical underwriting with a different insurance company if the insurance company no longer sells (closed, dead pool) Medicare Supplement plans.
Click to expand...

But Moo , according to others, closes one, and opens a new one. So can a person still switch companies, or do they have to go back to the same Moo. ?
 
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