Miserable HOA/fence issue

[W2R]

Yea, I've heard that some of them restrict the number of number of abandoned cars you can have on blocks in your front yard. Where else would you chain your dogs?

 

[TromboneAl]

I guess HOA stands for Haughty Onerous A******s.

Yea, I've heard that some of them restrict the number of number of abandoned cars you can have on blocks in your front yard. Where else would you chain your dogs?

Good one. Reminds me of the joke: "You might be a redneck if you mow your lawn and discover an abandoned car."

 

[Walt34]

Yea, I've heard that some of them restrict the number of number of abandoned cars you can have on blocks in your front yard. Where else would you chain your dogs?

To the old RV that you use for an addition on the house.

No joke, there's a guy a few miles from here who did exactly that. HOA's aren't always all bad.

 

[eytonxav]

In most HOAs that I am familiar with, fences (sometimes termed party walls) between adjacent properties are a joint responsibility between the adjacent property owners and includes sharing of maintenance and replacement costs (eg joint ownership).

Also, if a single unit wanted to install an architectual improvement, typically most HOA's have committees that would have to approve the improvement, so presumably there would be a record to confirm who made that improvement if it was done by one particular owner in the past.

 

[grasshopper]

Read the Deed Restrictions/Covenants for your property. You should have received a copy when you closed. Normally all "improvements" in existence at time of purchase are "grandfathered in" when a property is bought whether previously approved or not. In our HOA the President has to give a statement to the closing company that all dues are paid and that there are no outstanding issues before a sale can be completed.

I think all/most HOA's have this in Deed Covenants.

 

[farmerEd]

"You might be a redneck if you mow your lawn and discover an abandoned car."

I am not a redneck, but I really did discover a car (two in fact) when I was mowing my fields...buried over 40 years ago, and little by little the dirt settled around them.

If I had to guess, there are more than 2 - but I am not going digging for them.

 

[ziggy29]

I helped create a [-]monster[/-] HOA in our subdivision, serving on the initial board and later becoming HOA president. After two years I could no longer stand it and ran for my life. Something about HOA's seems to attract control freaks and nut jobs who lack both reason and common sense.

My wife was elected to an HOA board when we lived in Houston. (That she was recruited to run for the position after we lived there for only 6 months should have been a red flag, as in "no one who knows the situation will do it".) It was actually a rather benign HOA which didn't much use Gestapo tactics, didn't aggressively enforce minor technical violations and had never foreclosed on anyone in its 40 years of existence.

Just the same, as soon as she was elected, she started getting bashed (along with other board members) by some militant anti-authoritarians in the development whose raison d'etre seemed to be finding joy in attacking the motives and character of the people on the board.

 

[REWahoo]

...as she was elected, she started getting bashed (along with other board members) by some militant anti-authoritarians in the development whose raison d'etre seemed to be finding joy in attacking the motives and character of the people on the board.

Yep, not all the neighborhood nut-jobs seek HOA positions. There seem to be three camps - the rule freaks who migrate to board membership, the anti-establishment types as you describe above, and us normal folks.

 

[ziggy29]

Yep, not all the neighborhood nut-jobs seek HOA positions. There seem to be three camps - the rule freaks who migrate to board membership, the anti-establishment types as you describe above, and us normal folks.

Yeah -- here's an example. There was a short-term need for an additional assistant to the one paid HOA staffer in the office. It was sporadic, part-time and only lasted a few months. The board wanted someone who was flexible and knew the association and the development well. My wife volunteered to do it.

The "job" paid $8 per hour, an average of maybe 10-15 hours a week for about three months, and no benefits. Additionally, there was an upgrade project for the pool and clubhouse area for which fundraisers were being held, and she donated half of her pay to this project. Nevertheless, the core group of haters raised a stink about this deal, as if she used their "clout" on the board to get this "job" that paid her basically nothing after taxes and donations back to the HOA -- as an example of the horrible, rampant corruption on the board and as an excuse to attack the character and ethics of the entire board. (Never mind that no one else ever "applied" for this work.)

Eventually she got tired of it and quit -- and they had to pay someone else even *more* to do it, and that wasn't someone who gave several hundred dollars back to the association's upgrade project along the way.

No good deed goes unpunished. And we quickly learned why they were desperate for candidates to run for the board every year.

 

[DAYDREAMER]

Its amazing how 1 or 2 bad apples can poisen a HOA. I'm a on a board, and will never volunteer again. We have 2 people that are extremely immature, and love talking trash about people. Very unprofessional environment

My recommendation to you would be to try to talk with people on the board with them all there. Many people like to talk behind your back, but are usually cowards to your face. Would be better to see the people when talking with them.

 

[MichaelB]

No good deed goes unpunished. And we quickly learned why they were desperate for candidates to run for the board every year.

When we lived in a condo the associations were always like that. Lots of rotation among the council because every association meeting brought one or two real [-]obsessive[/-] outspoken [-]nutjobs[/-] owners that were disruptive and would not accept any views that did not match their own.

Our HOA in Fl is ok. They are petty tyrants but do an excellent job overseeing the maintenance and upkeep, which requires a lot of personal time.

 

[Ronstar]

When our HOA had a possible claim against a resident, they hired me to survey the property in order to either prove or disprove the claim. I would think that the responsibility for the survey in your case lies with the HOA. How do they even know whose fence it is, and who to make the claim against?

 

[arebelspy]

Yep, not all the neighborhood nut-jobs seek HOA positions. There seem to be three camps - the rule freaks who migrate to board membership, the anti-establishment types as you describe above, and us normal folks.

The problem is that everyone thinks they are in the third category and that everyone else is in the former two.

 

[Dreamer]

Note to self: Never live anywhere with a HOA.

+1 I have not ever lived anywhere that had an HOA and I do not want to. I don't care if my property is valued lower or not. I could not stand having the feeling that people were spying on me and then creating problems for me because of their spying. Besides, lower property values means lower property taxes. Win, win situation IMHO.

 

[haha]

Yep, not all the neighborhood nut-jobs seek HOA positions. There seem to be three camps - the rule freaks who migrate to board membership, the anti-establishment types as you describe above, and us normal folks.

 

[haha]

There is a condo building next door to my apartment. It was built in the 70s, and converted in 2007. It took them a while, but they finally sold all the units last year. Some former renters who couldn't or didn't want to buy stayed on renting from the new owner. If a board could make a building, that is where I would live. The assoc president is a 40ish guy who loves to improve the building, and he has some very impressive carpentry and landscaping skills. Super nice guy to boot.

I did consider buying there, as the neighborhood is superb and the building has him watching over it, but the units are window deprived and I like light.

Ha

 

[jimnjana]

Two years ago, the HOA for the community where we have our rental townhouse, picked up a couple of new members; since then, they have been on a continual rampage of snooping, nit-picking, and threats. I believe none of these people must have any sex life; they certainly act like it.

Among our latest wire-brushings: Our townhouse is second from the end unit. The HOA told us, in a letter, that there is no architectural request on file for a fence between our unit and the end unit. They are demanding that we submit a "post-construction" architectural request for their approval, or face fines and sanctions.

Being the fourth owners since the place was built in 1995, we have no idea who erected the fence, or when. The fence could as easily belong to the end unit. The lot plat in our closing papers does not indicate a fence, even though it was there when we bought the place in 2003. The plat shows the deck that was also there when we bought the TH.

We cannot communicate with the HOA except through the management company (who are overwhelmed and hard to reach) or via scheduled, 15-minute evening "hearings." When we get our hearing, we fully expect the HOA to demand that we pay for a survey to "disprove" our ownership of the fence. This would cost about $500.

Are there any other reasonable avenues we can take? We're really stressed about this, on top of all the other headaches this HOA has caused. We usually support HOAs and covenants, but these folks are...well, what I said at first.

Amethyst

One way to determine who originally put up the fence is which way are the support boards facing. People who put the fence up normally face the support boards towards their neighbor and the finished boards facing their property.

 

[sheehs1]

Two years ago, the HOA for the community where we have our rental townhouse, picked up a couple of new members; since then, they have been on a continual rampage of snooping, nit-picking, and threats. I believe none of these people must have any sex life; they certainly act like it.

Among our latest wire-brushings: Our townhouse is second from the end unit. The HOA told us, in a letter, that there is no architectural request on file for a fence between our unit and the end unit. They are demanding that we submit a "post-construction" architectural request for their approval, or face fines and sanctions.

Being the fourth owners since the place was built in 1995, we have no idea who erected the fence, or when. The fence could as easily belong to the end unit. The lot plat in our closing papers does not indicate a fence, even though it was there when we bought the place in 2003. The plat shows the deck that was also there when we bought the TH.

We cannot communicate with the HOA except through the management company (who are overwhelmed and hard to reach) or via scheduled, 15-minute evening "hearings." When we get our hearing, we fully expect the HOA to demand that we pay for a survey to "disprove" our ownership of the fence. This would cost about $500.

Are there any other reasonable avenues we can take? We're really stressed about this, on top of all the other headaches this HOA has caused. We usually support HOAs and covenants, but these folks are...well, what I said at first.

Amethyst

I'd pursue the argument that you bought it as is and the HOA failed to regulate prior to that. Also that there is no way you can comply with their request since you did not build it. Again, I'd try to emphasis the failure of the HOA to provide oversite on the fence building of the owner that did it. I'd also argue that you are "grandfathered" since you bought "as is" and would look into any legal verbiage on any documents pertaining to that.

I would also entertain the thought of ....having a lawyer write the HOA a letter on his/her letter head. You can write it to save some money...and the lawyer can edit, put on the letter head and send. You need to let the HOA know you will not be bullied. Send it "certified mail" return receipt. Just some thoughts...

 

[target2019]

One way to determine who originally put up the fence is which way are the support boards facing. People who put the fence up normally face the support boards towards their neighbor and the finished boards facing their property.

Exact opposite is in the local code in my town and most others in the area. The good side must face your neighbor.

Last year a neighbor did the opposite, and blamed it on the installers. I gave him 30-60 days to correct the problem. Naturally he took 90 or more days, but I persisted.

Fences are generally a problem if you see a new one going up. On another property line a neighbor has installed a temporary wire fence, but has not observed the setback.

 

[travelover]

Exact opposite is in the local code in my town and most others in the area. The good side must face your neighbor.
........

+1 Same here.

 

[Nords]

Note to self: Never live anywhere with a HOA.

HOAs are like insurance companies. You pay them money and they claim to protect the value of your property.

But then your relationship with them becomes full of fine print.

The "good" news is that bigger HOAs have a bigger gene pool to select board members. In the small HOAs the effects of one overbearing board member are magnified way out of proportion.

I think all/most HOA's have this in Deed Covenants.

Um, maybe not.

We live in a community of ~14,000 homes. That's enough HOA dues to hire a couple people to drive around all day in cars taking photos of common permit-requiring modifications (basketball backboards) and comparing them to the home's permit file. Then a letter can be sent to the homeowner informing them that no permit is on record for the backboard and an after-the-fact permit must be filed (accompanied by an application fee).

Meanwhile the [-]dirtbag[/-] neighbor up the street hasn't painted their home since it was built (1989) and has no visible enforcement action in effect. Rumor is that the lien(s) are piling up but it's not possible to tell from the street.

 

[tryan]

Approach the end unit owner and team with him ... or if there is no cooperation say the fence is his (by default). I agree they are making you jump thru hoops only to tell you to tear it down (need to minimize your costs).

Owner-occupants hate landlords/renters ... that's where the divide lies.

Thanx for reminding me why I stopped renting out condos decades ago. Ruling by committee is too painful ... too many chiefs, to few indians. And did I tell you about the "special assessments" ... they'll KILL your cashflow every year.

 

[sheehs1]

Interesting that your plat does not show a fence. I like the idea of making the HOA prove it is your fence. LOL ! Do you know if it actually sits on your property? Try to check the location of the fence in reference to your property lines...if you can and if you have not already done so.
Do you know whether someone complained about your fence?

 

[tightasadrum]

The neighborhood I lived in prior to moving out on 8.5 acres in paradise had a HOA. I was president one L-O-N-G year. I'd get calls all the time from a homeowner, often an elderly woman but not always, about something their neighbor was or was not doing that irritated them. What was I going to do about it? After applying all different actions to appease the malcontents, I stumbled on one that usually worked. I expressed by shock and concern for the situation, said I was certainly glad THEY were also concerned, indicated that I'd been looking for such a concerned neighbor in that section of the neighborhood, and wouldn't they be interested in taking over that position. The telephone conversation always ended quickly, and the calls stopped.

 

[REWahoo]

I expressed by shock and concern for the situation, said I was certainly glad THEY were also concerned, indicated that I'd been looking for such a concerned neighbor in that section of the neighborhood, and wouldn't they be interested in taking over that position.

Ah hah! Now we know how so many of these nutjobs end up on HOA boards.