Moved into CCRC today

[Alex The Great]

At my grandparents CCRC those residents in independent living apartments had to come to the dining room for at least one meal a day or they'd be transferred to assisted living.

Does it mean nobody allowed to cook and eat separately in apartment? What about those who are out traveling or doing something else?

 

[harllee]

At my grandparents CCRC those residents in independent living apartments had to come to the dining room for at least one meal a day or they'd be transferred to assisted living.

That is pretty extreme--what if you are sick, etc? During Covid my CCRC closed the dining rooms and there was meal delivery. The Head Chef told me that the number of people getting meal delivery is still way up. There is some discussion about encouraging people to come to the dining room by charging meal delivery fees or limiting the menu available for meal delivery.

 

[harllee]

@harllee, glad to hear you're thriving in your new retirement living place!

On your Mom, is she in AL or IL at this point (you might have said but I don't track those details well)?

My 87yo Dad moved from AL to IL this spring, and while it was a somewhat rough transition, he is physically and medically better off because he's being taken care of how he needs to be. We resisted the move for a while and in retrospect it might have been somewhat better had he moved proactively rather than after a medium-sized medical crisis that landed him in the ER then hospital for a week and PT/OT rehab for two weeks.

Also, from a financial point of view, I plan to deduct all of his rent and care fees on his taxes now that he is in AL, so on a net basis, it's actually cheaper for him to live in AL. Go figure.

My mother is still in Independent Living with caretakers morning and evening. It is working OK for now but she will probably eventually have to move to memory care, she has been diagnosed with Covid induced dementia and is progressively getting worse. My mother's CCRC is fee for services so her monthly fee will triple when she goes from Independent Living to Memory care and we will need her long term care insurance to pay a portion of that charge. Mother has LTC insurance and I am trying to get it to pay for her caregivers right now. The insurance company has denied her claim saying she is not bad off enough. I am fighting them, have hired a consultant and may have to hire a lawyer.

 

[RunningBum]

Harlee, as an introvert I have a question about your CCRC experience. I'm sure you can pick and choose which activities you do, but is there any kind of expectation or peer pressure that you will do a lot of things? I'm sure there's stuff I'd do, but when I don't want to do them I wouldn't want people bugging me at the dining table or calling or knocking at my door to try to get me to come. What I've found, as most (all) introverts have, is that being around a lot of people is often draining, and I need some downtime to recharge. Maybe a CCRC isn't for me.

 

[REWahoo]

Harlee, as an introvert I have a question about your CCRC experience. I'm sure you can pick and choose which activities you do, but is there any kind of expectation or peer pressure that you will do a lot of things? I'm sure there's stuff I'd do, but when I don't want to do them I wouldn't want people bugging me at the dining table or calling or knocking at my door to try to get me to come. What I've found, as most (all) introverts have, is that being around a lot of people is often draining, and I need some downtime to recharge. Maybe a CCRC isn't for me.

Great question.

I see ads for many of these places showing a group "active seniors" laughing it up at some sort of gathering and touting a long list of available activities and think, "no thanks".

 

[harllee]

Harlee, as an introvert I have a question about your CCRC experience. I'm sure you can pick and choose which activities you do, but is there any kind of expectation or peer pressure that you will do a lot of things? I'm sure there's stuff I'd do, but when I don't want to do them I wouldn't want people bugging me at the dining table or calling or knocking at my door to try to get me to come. What I've found, as most (all) introverts have, is that being around a lot of people is often draining, and I need some downtime to recharge. Maybe a CCRC isn't for me.

I have not seen any peer pressure to do any activities, in fact it is hard to get to do some activities because the available slots fill up fast--but I am not the best person to ask because DH and I are extroverts and we want to do all the activities we can. I do see some pressure to get people to eat their meals in the dining room. I think the thought is that it is not healthy for people to never leave their apartments and eat all their meals in their apartment. There is some discussion about implementing a delivery fee for meals to be delivered to the apartment (most CCRCs I looked at have a $5 charge for meal delivery) and having a limited menu of foods that can be delivered. There is a singles table in the main dining room for people who live alone. I have also seen some activities geared to single people.

 

[Teacher Terry]

In my friend’s ccrc most of the people were singles and there wasn’t any pressure to participate in activities. You would see many people out and about and gathering for happy hour, playing cards, etc. My friend enjoyed participating in the activities that interested him. The staff was very nice.

 

[harllee]

There are more single people at my CCRC than married couples and more women than men. I am not sure of the numbers. I just got back from the Scottish Country Dance Class (it's a hoot) and some of the women are asked to take the mens parts and they wear mens ties so we can tell the which dance part they are taking, like I said it is a hoot. We have run into several couples that met and got married while they were living at the CCRC and a few that just moved in with each other without marrying. It is significantly cheaper for a couple to share an apartment. There are also several gay couples. There are also some siblings sharing an apartment. It is a fun mixed bunch.

 

[SecondCor521]

My mother is still in Independent Living with caretakers morning and evening. It is working OK for now but she will probably eventually have to move to memory care, she has been diagnosed with Covid induced dementia and is progressively getting worse. My mother's CCRC is fee for services so her monthly fee will triple when she goes from Independent Living to Memory care and we will need her long term care insurance to pay a portion of that charge. Mother has LTC insurance and I am trying to get it to pay for her caregivers right now. The insurance company has denied her claim saying she is not bad off enough. I am fighting them, have hired a consultant and may have to hire a lawyer.

Whomever does your Mom's taxes should know that 100% of her memory care monthly fees (*) less any LTC payments would be a Schedule A itemized deduction to the extent that they exceed 7.5% of her AGI. This could easily be a $100K deduction on your Mom's federal taxes (assuming a full year in memory care).

Good luck with the LTC fight.

(*) which are for room, board, and care. Don't deduct her cable bill.

 

[harllee]

Whomever does your Mom's taxes should know that 100% of her memory care monthly fees (*) less any LTC payments would be a Schedule A itemized deduction to the extent that they exceed 7.5% of her AGI. This could easily be a $100K deduction on your Mom's federal taxes (assuming a full year in memory care).

Good luck with the LTC fight.

(*) which are for room, board, and care. Don't deduct her cable bill.

Thanks for the reminder about the medical deductions. Mother will not get much benefit because her income is pretty low and she does not pay much income tax. Because he income is low, we need the LTC insurance to be able to move her into memory care.

 

[SecondCor521]

Thanks for the reminder about the medical deductions. Mother will not get much benefit because her income is pretty low and she does not pay much income tax. Because he income is low, we need the LTC insurance to be able to move her into memory care.

Ah gotcha. Good luck again with the LTC hassle/fight.

 

[MarieIG]

There are more single people at my CCRC than married couples and more women than men. I am not sure of the numbers. I just got back from the Scottish Country Dance Class (it's a hoot) and some of the women are asked to take the mens parts and they wear mens ties so we can tell the which dance part they are taking, like I said it is a hoot. We have run into several couples that met and got married while they were living at the CCRC and a few that just moved in with each other without marrying. It is significantly cheaper for a couple to share an apartment. There are also several gay couples. There are also some siblings sharing an apartment. It is a fun mixed bunch.

It does sound like a very fun bunch!

 

[MarieIG]

I have not seen any peer pressure to do any activities, in fact it is hard to get to do some activities because the available slots fill up fast--but I am not the best person to ask because DH and I are extroverts and we want to do all the activities we can. I do see some pressure to get people to eat their meals in the dining room. I think the thought is that it is not healthy for people to never leave their apartments and eat all their meals in their apartment. There is some discussion about implementing a delivery fee for meals to be delivered to the apartment (most CCRCs I looked at have a $5 charge for meal delivery) and having a limited menu of foods that can be delivered. There is a singles table in the main dining room for people who live alone. I have also seen some activities geared to single people.

I will admit - I do not like the idea of a meal delivery fee. The employees are not leaving the premises, the CCRC is not inexpensive, and it might be penalizing someone who is not feeling well.

 

[SecondCor521]

I will admit - I do not like the idea of a meal delivery fee. The employees are not leaving the premises, the CCRC is not inexpensive, and it might be penalizing someone who is not feeling well.

My Dad's place charges a delivery fee but waives it if the resident is ill.

 

[MarieIG]

My Dad's place charges a delivery fee but waives it if the resident is ill.

They should. I would hate to think that someone "coming down" with something would go down to the dining area and spread whatever he/ she was carrying to avoid the fee.

 

[harllee]

I will admit - I do not like the idea of a meal delivery fee. The employees are not leaving the premises, the CCRC is not inexpensive, and it might be penalizing someone who is not feeling well.

I expect there will be some sort of accommodation made for people who are sick, recovering from surgery, etc. It is "independent living" and as such people are expected to eat in the dining room or at least go pick up their own meal. Our building is so large that it does take quite a bit of time for an employee to deliver meals. My CCRC does allow you to chose what type of meal plan you want from zero meals to just a few meals a week, to one or two meals a day. If you chose a reduced meal plan then your rent is reduced but the reduction is not very large. The standard meal plan here is one large meal per day day (which would include entree, appetizer, dessert, etc) and we have found that we often have enough food left over to take home for lunch the next day. We are doing very little shopping and our grocery bill is substantially reduced.

 

[braumeister]

At my grandparents CCRC those residents in independent living apartments had to come to the dining room for at least one meal a day or they'd be transferred to assisted living.

I've never heard of such a thing. The only reason I can think of for such an extreme policy is that they are having cash flow issues. It's so important to check out the financial stability of a CCRC.
The ones I'm looking at all have very healthy balance sheets with substantial charitable funds.

 

[SecondCor521]

I've never heard of such a thing. The only reason I can think of for such an extreme policy is that they are having cash flow issues. It's so important to check out the financial stability of a CCRC.
The ones I'm looking at all have very healthy balance sheets with substantial charitable funds.

Another reason could be to make sure someone hasn't fallen and can't get up. But there are better systems for that.

 

[harllee]

We have a button (mounted right beside the door to my bedroom) that we have to punch every morning by 10 am to let the CCRC staff know we are among the living. If you don't punch it by 10 am you get a call and if you don't answer the call they come to your apartment. If you are going to be out of town you need to let the staff know so they will not be expecting you to punch your button. So far I have not forgotten the punch the button (I have a big sign on my bathroom mirror reminding me) but I understand there are a few people who never punch the button and the staff has to call them every day.

 

[Alex The Great]

We have a button (mounted right beside the door to my bedroom) that we have to punch every morning by 10 am to let the CCRC staff know we are among the living. If you don't punch it by 10 am you get a call and if you don't answer the call they come to your apartment. If you are going to be out of town you need to let the staff know so they will not be expecting you to punch your button. So far I have not forgotten the punch the button (I have a big sign on my bathroom mirror reminding me) but I understand there are a few people who never punch the button and the staff has to call them every day.

I think it may be too much to ask because people either come to dining room to eat or order meals into apartment. Why not to check on them at that time?
I wonder do you have any stove to cook meals in apartment? Or it is not allowed at all?
Also how about cleaning up the apartment? Do they come every morning and open the door with their key like in a hotel?

 

[harllee]

I think it may be too much to ask because people either come to dining room to eat or order meals into apartment. Why not to check on them at that time?
I wonder do you have any stove to cook meals in apartment? Or it is not allowed at all?
Also how about cleaning up the apartment? Do they come every morning and open the door with their key like in a hotel?

Under our system you can totally opt out of the meal system. All apartments in Independent Living have a full kitchen, in fact we have a patio with a propane grill and we grill out some nights. We get housekeeping once a week. I like the button punch system, It gives me peace of mind to know that if I fell or got sick overnight a staff person would come and check on me the next morning if I did not punch the button. That is the sort of thing I am paying for.

 

[lucky penny]

harllee, before you moved in, how many times did you visit it and/or stay overnight?

Since moving in, have your expenses been about what you anticipated? Any significant unexpected expenses?

In some ways a CCRC sounds like a giant cruise ship. Are residents expected to tip the staff for their services? (cleaning, dining staff, gym instructors, etc) Maybe that happens at holiday time?

Your descriptions have been so positive. Have there been any disappointments?

 

[harllee]

harllee, before you moved in, how many times did you visit it and/or stay overnight?

Since moving in, have your expenses been about what you anticipated? Any significant unexpected expenses?

In some ways a CCRC sounds like a giant cruise ship. Are residents expected to tip the staff for their services? (cleaning, dining staff, gym instructors, etc) Maybe that happens at holiday time?

Your descriptions have been so positive. Have there been any disappointments?

I lived just a few minutes from my CCRC and had been on the waiting list for over 10 years and I have many friends who live here. Prior to Covid I visited many times (maybe a dozen) and was able to attend activities and eat meals. Since I lived so close I never spent the night. Expenses are actually less since I am buying very few groceries. The monthly charge will go up January 1, last year it increased 4.5%. Tipping is disallowed but they do collect a voluntary employee appreciation fund at the end of the year. Very few disappointments, I did have to have the washer replaced because it was lemon, but really no hassle. We did have fire alarm go off and had to evacuate due to someone burning bacon (I understand of there are multiple offenses they unplug the person's stove). I had to get on the waitlist for an activity I want to do, hopefully I will still get in.

 

[ncbill]

I've never heard of such a thing. The only reason I can think of for such an extreme policy is that they are having cash flow issues. It's so important to check out the financial stability of a CCRC.
The ones I'm looking at all have very healthy balance sheets with substantial charitable funds.

No, it's literally one of the best CCRCs locally.

Independent living is for those who can actually live independently.

If a resident there on an ongoing basis (not an acute illness) is not able to get dressed & show up for meals in the dining room then they're not in an appropriate placement

And so need to move up to the next level of care which there is assisted living.

 

[braumeister]

No, it's literally one of the best CCRCs locally.

Independent living is for those who can actually live independently.

If a resident there on an ongoing basis (not an acute illness) is not able to get dressed & show up for meals in the dining room then they're not in an appropriate placement

And so need to move up to the next level of care which there is assisted living.

Sorry, but I disagree. I know quite a few folks in CCRCs who do their own cooking and only occasionally visit the dining room for a meal. The situation you described is unusual.