Brat
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Years ago I recall talking to a plumbing apprentice. I asked him why he choose that program. He said that even in a construction downturn a plumber is an in-demand trade.
Not every kid is an engineer. What do we do about the others?
- Thread starter bclover
- Start date
Yes, indeed I cheated on my English classes. Second language speaker!I guess you skipped the English classes? You've misspelled college twice now.
Sorry about that.The English language is one thing I am still learning and I don't think I will ever finish that.
Winemaker
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Collage isn't all bad!
The Funniest, Epic T-Shirt Fails You Have to See for Yourself – RoutineJournal
The Funniest, Epic T-Shirt Fails You Have to See for Yourself – RoutineJournal
audreyh1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
As the proud parents of an absolutely awesome nurse practitioner son, DW & I thank you for that recognition.
It’s great to see so many more male nurses.
Big_Hitter
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
we are just ribbing you bro!
audreyh1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
DH followed that path - went the college route. He was a techie though which is why he chose a particular branch.
I was a techie. Luckily discovered engineering at science camp before my senior year, encouraged by a Myers Briggs test no less. By the time I started university women were just starting to be encouraged to enter engineering programs. College was great after being that weird girl in high school.
Actually had no idea that engineering was a path to a well paying job. Then realized that a lot of my freshman we’re in it for the money. Pretty high dropout rate- it wasn’t an easy program.
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That's cool.
Kroeran
Full time employment: Posting here.
My neice nurse picked up an intensive care specialization after RN and is now a twenty something that can pick up a $800 double overtime shift whenever she wants. Has already travelled half the world on own dime.
Teamed up with over achiever government engineer plus house and car flipper boyfriend, accelerating the fun. They crunched some numbers and are about to set off on year long round world tour before having kids.
Asabino
Dryer sheet aficionado
Who says every kid needs a college degree? Like your son, i have a friend that is a plumber (self employed). He has a 4 year degree UVA (Univ. of Virginia). Opened his plumbing business and within a few years Roto Rooter offered to buy his business for 10mm. Why? He said he can make more!
Technical skills are very important and you can make a lot of money having those skills. A CEO (forget the name) of a large company once said "find a job that will make you money. You can always have your passion while you're making money"
People who write code are programmers, not engineers. While there are some legitimate software engineers, most of the people in IT who call themselves engineers, aren't. Most real engineers are civil, like my daughter, mechanical, electrical or chemical, like me and my son. There, now I feel all better!
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I am totally cool with anything about her. Just looking at her she should do well no matter how she spells.
Ha
I beg to differ.
I agree. Follow your passion.
I went into electrical engineering for a variety of reasons. When I ask questions at the doctor's office, I'm asked "are you an engineer?".
It's in my DNA, I love it and I don't make top $$$ at the company I've been with for many years.
Despite dinner table warnings like "Consider engineering, or learn to speak Chinese" my children followed their own passions: assistant manager at a credit union, accounts receivable at a family business, and a high school AP Physics teacher.
My father laments that the college degree has become the new high school diploma.
Given the written communication skills I see at my company, and the problem solving skills, I'm inclined to agree
I went into electrical engineering for a variety of reasons. When I ask questions at the doctor's office, I'm asked "are you an engineer?".
It's in my DNA, I love it and I don't make top $$$ at the company I've been with for many years.
Despite dinner table warnings like "Consider engineering, or learn to speak Chinese" my children followed their own passions: assistant manager at a credit union, accounts receivable at a family business, and a high school AP Physics teacher.
My father laments that the college degree has become the new high school diploma.
Given the written communication skills I see at my company, and the problem solving skills, I'm inclined to agree
Our stepson is a journeyman lineman and makes more after 4 yrs training than either my husband or I ever did. He is doing really well. He loves it, too.
My daughter lives in a town of 12000, and no one can get a plumber or electrician when they need one, since they have to come from a neighboring small city. Our plumber retired in his 50’s and told me he earned more in his late 20’s than any of his college friends, plus no student loans. He had his own business by age 34, and retired to Florida with a fully paid for home.
It really makes me think about encouraging fewer young people to go to college and more to go into trades.
My daughter lives in a town of 12000, and no one can get a plumber or electrician when they need one, since they have to come from a neighboring small city. Our plumber retired in his 50’s and told me he earned more in his late 20’s than any of his college friends, plus no student loans. He had his own business by age 34, and retired to Florida with a fully paid for home.
It really makes me think about encouraging fewer young people to go to college and more to go into trades.
friar1610
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2002
- Messages
- 1,639
A quick, off-topic anecdote. When I lived in VT I used to shop at the Lowe's in Burlington. It always cracked me up that all their signs were bilingual - English and Spanish. Yet a good percentage of the shoppers were French speakers from Quebec and Spanish speakers were a rarity in VT. Obviously, corporate policy was to have bilingual signs in the two major US languages and they didn't adjust for regional differences.
friar1610
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2002
- Messages
- 1,639
Many small business owners started as a tradesman and worked into owning their own business.
I F.IR.E.D last year with 2.5M+ with no college degree and in my mid 50's. All I knew was how to fix things and deal with people. Worked in the same trade all my life and was an "engineer" without a degree before owning my own show.
Drive and intellect will trump a degree at the end of the day.
He who can work with his hands will never go hungry.
My father was fond of quoting Benjamin Franklin: "he that hath a trade hath an estate".
I have a masters in engineering, and 6 Christmas layoffs. I've worked at 12 different places, most of which went under, buyouts, layoffs..... Over 142k in unemployment compensation lifetime.
I love technical work, but folks don't seem to understand how unstable engineering employment is. And how many folks use it as an entry point for management and abandon engineering at the first opportunity.
Mark Manson advises to do what you are good at, learn to at least like it, perhaps come to love it. Pushing folks toward college without a plan is expensive suicide.
At this point I consider basic technical literacy to be necessary, but not sufficient for a career.
Now obviously retired, after GFC and housing crunch wiped out career entirely. Diplomas expire after about a year of unemployment.
I love technical work, but folks don't seem to understand how unstable engineering employment is. And how many folks use it as an entry point for management and abandon engineering at the first opportunity.
Mark Manson advises to do what you are good at, learn to at least like it, perhaps come to love it. Pushing folks toward college without a plan is expensive suicide.
At this point I consider basic technical literacy to be necessary, but not sufficient for a career.
Now obviously retired, after GFC and housing crunch wiped out career entirely. Diplomas expire after about a year of unemployment.
World Traveler
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2014
- Messages
- 147
To me it is about ROI. I told my kids you don’t have to go to college it was encouraged but they had to learn a skill. I was not going to pay for college with studies in the major or psychology (knowing any descent jobs you would have to have a masters with few exceptions). No problem with them pursuing those majors but they would have to do it on their own dime. Trades are very underrated in our society.
Old Microbiologist
Recycles dryer sheets
I am always doing "other" things despite my 14 years of University education. For example, I used my Vietnam GI Bill to pay for a Commercial/Instrument license although never had the opportunity to work in commercial aviation due to the military keeping a tight hold on me for most of my life. I also, because I had 2,500 flight hours as a civilian pilot (I did teach on the side), was grandfathered into Rotary aviation in the Calif National Guard and then kept my fight pay in the military after I was recalled back to active duty (permanently) flying UH-1H's as PIC for hospital inspections around the country. I only had to go to a transition course to transition from fixed wing to rotary. Not particularly difficult as when I was in ROTC I was also an E-7 (Sergeant First Class) in the simultaneous membership program with the National Guard and was posted to an aviation unit where they taught me rotary piloting (off the books and under the table). I had about 50 hours (unlogged) when I went to the transition course at Fort Rucker. So, for me it was easy.
I was surprised to not see aviation listed here. There are going to be 20,000 pilot jobs vacant in the immediate future outside of the military. The military is short 2,500 pilots now. The former doesn't require a degree but the latter does and usually in engineering. A person can work their way up in civilian aviation starting with a Private Pilot's license and then get the commercial and Instrument ratings. Once you do that you can work as an instructor to build time. You can also fly commercial jobs like ferrying, parachutists, aviation tours and build time and experience. It is not easy to compete with the military pilots but not impossible either. I have several friends who did it without any college or serving in the military. I have a neighbor here in Hungary who works as a commercial pilot flying tourists and parachutists and his family owns and operates a fleet of small aircraft for this purpose. He is always haranguing me to fly weekends shuttling parachutist's. BUt, because of my medical situation I beg off. It would be s simple matter to move my US ratings over to the Hungarian/EU system. My point is that those skills are valuable outside the US. I also keep running into jobs to teach rotary pilot to foreign military as a contractor and here in our area there are a bunch of former soviet-era HIND pilots (my gardener is one) who go off periodically to teach in places like Namibia or Sudan. There is also a high demand for contractor military (mercenary). I was also Special Forces (Medic) at the end of my enlisted career and keep tabs on this stuff. There are a ton of jobs for former SOF guys willing to keep taking risks.
I also was a medical laboratory technician in the Army and was licensed in California without a college degree because of my experience and I passed the State Exam. My entire intent for my University degrees was to stay in the lab in the civilian world and at the time of my recall I was the Director of Laboratory Services as a major hospital in S. Cal. Up until I received my PhD I was doing essentially the same thing in the Army and commanded laboratories around the country. So, lab technician, which pays well, is also possible without a university degree.
I also became a volunteer Ski Patroller my second tour in Germany. I rose in the ranks of the NSPS and earned my Senior Patroller rank and then later my Certified Patroller rank. There are a number of ski patroller positions which are outside of the National Ski Patrol system. Resorts actually prefer to hire professional patrollers rather than rely completely on volunteers. The Certified level is essentially equivalent to an Master's in Resort management and once you have this extremely difficult to get rating, you can get a job as the resort manager or director of emergency services at ski resorts around the world. I also (because I was Regional Director for Training) received my certificate with the PSIA-AASI at Level II. I was rated as a snowboarding instructor having switched to snowboarding in 1990. So, yet another non-University career path teaching skiing or snowboarding. You can also work for the National Park service as a Ranger. I have a retired Colonel friend (Infantry) who was a buddy in the NSPS with me and he runs an avalanche training school in Idaho. He is the happiest man I know.
I also earned my license (International Certificate of Competence) as a skipper for yachts in Croatia. My rating permits operating vessels in oceans, inland seas and waterways. I am limited in size though but with time(as in aviation) you can gravitate and take the exams for the rating of Captain and operate large commercial vessels. I only did it so I can charter and operate yachts while on vacation and to get lower insurance premiums. But, here again is a career path outside of the university system. I think all sailors are in general extremely happy people.
I also became interested in drone operations as my wife is also a professional photographer (another non-university career path) and she wanted aerial shots but didn't want to deal with learning to fly. So, as I am a pilot with a lot of experience I took on this job (willingly as I can't fly any more after cataract surgery and 2 detached retina's) and bought a quadcopter. As the US (and many other countries) are now requiring licensure I took the Part 107 exam while in the US last year. I am now legal to operate commercial drones (Unmanned Aerial Systems - UAS). This is a big growth industry for remote pilot vehicles and another non-university career path. With companies now getting FAA approval to deliver goods and services there is a huge demand for licensed UAS pilots.
I also have a Black Belt in Kendo and taught Kendo part time. My son is a 6th degree Tae Kwon Do Master and teaches TKD on the side. He has developed his own school though so had branched out. I also have a niece who is married to a 2 time Olympic Gold medalist figure skater who never attended university and works as a national coach (Russia) for figure skater's. He moved back to Russia from Chicago because the pay was better there. My daughter was a National Gymnastics and it got her full boat at University and she doesn't do it anymore but many of her friends moved into teaching gymnastics after leaving the competition level. My point to all of this is that if you have some sports skills you can use those as a career path as well.
Like someone said you should try and find things you love to do and figure out a way to make that work for you. It doesn't necessarily require a degree to be successful. It does help but isn't required. My wife, as another example, has a PhD in Geophysics but was hired as a web developer in the US as there were no jobs for geophysicists in the US. She went to a vocational night school (run by Russians in Washington DC) and learned web development. She got the jobs because of the US government requirements for a college degree but in fact it was her skills as a programmer that were her real asset and she had a large portfolio of commercial web sites she designed to show. She worked part time in the evenings doing web development for roughly $20k a site which usually took her 5 days to do. So, here is yet another non-university career path. Commercial artists are similar (yes, I am a painter as well) and there are a ton of jobs for people who have talent especially in digital art.
I also danced ballet for 15 years and taught male ballet on the side for a few years. So, another area (perhaps more like a sport?) that is non-university. There aren't very many male dance instructors out there. I have a friend who moved from commercial art into Tango instruction and she is doing fine and much happier. So yet another avenue for creative careers.
I almost forgot about language instructor. My son whose BA in History is actually useless got certified to teach English as a second language and works part time in Israel doing that. There is a high demand for language instructors willing to relocate. Some places like Korea, China, and Japan are desperate for instructors.
I was surprised to not see aviation listed here. There are going to be 20,000 pilot jobs vacant in the immediate future outside of the military. The military is short 2,500 pilots now. The former doesn't require a degree but the latter does and usually in engineering. A person can work their way up in civilian aviation starting with a Private Pilot's license and then get the commercial and Instrument ratings. Once you do that you can work as an instructor to build time. You can also fly commercial jobs like ferrying, parachutists, aviation tours and build time and experience. It is not easy to compete with the military pilots but not impossible either. I have several friends who did it without any college or serving in the military. I have a neighbor here in Hungary who works as a commercial pilot flying tourists and parachutists and his family owns and operates a fleet of small aircraft for this purpose. He is always haranguing me to fly weekends shuttling parachutist's. BUt, because of my medical situation I beg off. It would be s simple matter to move my US ratings over to the Hungarian/EU system. My point is that those skills are valuable outside the US. I also keep running into jobs to teach rotary pilot to foreign military as a contractor and here in our area there are a bunch of former soviet-era HIND pilots (my gardener is one) who go off periodically to teach in places like Namibia or Sudan. There is also a high demand for contractor military (mercenary). I was also Special Forces (Medic) at the end of my enlisted career and keep tabs on this stuff. There are a ton of jobs for former SOF guys willing to keep taking risks.
I also was a medical laboratory technician in the Army and was licensed in California without a college degree because of my experience and I passed the State Exam. My entire intent for my University degrees was to stay in the lab in the civilian world and at the time of my recall I was the Director of Laboratory Services as a major hospital in S. Cal. Up until I received my PhD I was doing essentially the same thing in the Army and commanded laboratories around the country. So, lab technician, which pays well, is also possible without a university degree.
I also became a volunteer Ski Patroller my second tour in Germany. I rose in the ranks of the NSPS and earned my Senior Patroller rank and then later my Certified Patroller rank. There are a number of ski patroller positions which are outside of the National Ski Patrol system. Resorts actually prefer to hire professional patrollers rather than rely completely on volunteers. The Certified level is essentially equivalent to an Master's in Resort management and once you have this extremely difficult to get rating, you can get a job as the resort manager or director of emergency services at ski resorts around the world. I also (because I was Regional Director for Training) received my certificate with the PSIA-AASI at Level II. I was rated as a snowboarding instructor having switched to snowboarding in 1990. So, yet another non-University career path teaching skiing or snowboarding. You can also work for the National Park service as a Ranger. I have a retired Colonel friend (Infantry) who was a buddy in the NSPS with me and he runs an avalanche training school in Idaho. He is the happiest man I know.
I also earned my license (International Certificate of Competence) as a skipper for yachts in Croatia. My rating permits operating vessels in oceans, inland seas and waterways. I am limited in size though but with time(as in aviation) you can gravitate and take the exams for the rating of Captain and operate large commercial vessels. I only did it so I can charter and operate yachts while on vacation and to get lower insurance premiums. But, here again is a career path outside of the university system. I think all sailors are in general extremely happy people.
I also became interested in drone operations as my wife is also a professional photographer (another non-university career path) and she wanted aerial shots but didn't want to deal with learning to fly. So, as I am a pilot with a lot of experience I took on this job (willingly as I can't fly any more after cataract surgery and 2 detached retina's) and bought a quadcopter. As the US (and many other countries) are now requiring licensure I took the Part 107 exam while in the US last year. I am now legal to operate commercial drones (Unmanned Aerial Systems - UAS). This is a big growth industry for remote pilot vehicles and another non-university career path. With companies now getting FAA approval to deliver goods and services there is a huge demand for licensed UAS pilots.
I also have a Black Belt in Kendo and taught Kendo part time. My son is a 6th degree Tae Kwon Do Master and teaches TKD on the side. He has developed his own school though so had branched out. I also have a niece who is married to a 2 time Olympic Gold medalist figure skater who never attended university and works as a national coach (Russia) for figure skater's. He moved back to Russia from Chicago because the pay was better there. My daughter was a National Gymnastics and it got her full boat at University and she doesn't do it anymore but many of her friends moved into teaching gymnastics after leaving the competition level. My point to all of this is that if you have some sports skills you can use those as a career path as well.
Like someone said you should try and find things you love to do and figure out a way to make that work for you. It doesn't necessarily require a degree to be successful. It does help but isn't required. My wife, as another example, has a PhD in Geophysics but was hired as a web developer in the US as there were no jobs for geophysicists in the US. She went to a vocational night school (run by Russians in Washington DC) and learned web development. She got the jobs because of the US government requirements for a college degree but in fact it was her skills as a programmer that were her real asset and she had a large portfolio of commercial web sites she designed to show. She worked part time in the evenings doing web development for roughly $20k a site which usually took her 5 days to do. So, here is yet another non-university career path. Commercial artists are similar (yes, I am a painter as well) and there are a ton of jobs for people who have talent especially in digital art.
I also danced ballet for 15 years and taught male ballet on the side for a few years. So, another area (perhaps more like a sport?) that is non-university. There aren't very many male dance instructors out there. I have a friend who moved from commercial art into Tango instruction and she is doing fine and much happier. So yet another avenue for creative careers.
I almost forgot about language instructor. My son whose BA in History is actually useless got certified to teach English as a second language and works part time in Israel doing that. There is a high demand for language instructors willing to relocate. Some places like Korea, China, and Japan are desperate for instructors.
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denver.miller.3
Confused about dryer sheets
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2018
- Messages
- 3
Someone is listening to Mike Rowe, finally.
I'm of several minds on this.
I get frustrated with the parental "we'll only pay for a paying career like engineering," even given the reality that many/most kids will never qualify.
I also think trades are a great idea for kids for which they are suited, which are many. Many of the boys with which I went to small high school in Oklahoma did a dual curriculum: academics in the morning, working as apprentices in trades in the afternoon, and many did quite well.
On the other hand, I got an undergrad in English/Poli Sci (had a tuition scholarship and worked in a slaughterhouse in summer for my room/board) and then went to grad school in Cali. My parents didn't want me to go into law (which was the original plan), but they were fine with me doing whatever I thought was best for me.
Curiously, it all turned out fine, at least for me.
Myself, I encouraged my two sons to pursue what they were most interested in: one got a Enology (winemaker) degree at UC Davis and the other a computer engineering/Professional Writing double major at Carnegie Major. The latter's interviewers told him the latter degree was what got him hired at Microsoft. Interesting.
Both of them worked after school at high school; the winemaker worked redoing diesel engines for the city/university transportation partnership at Davis, so a willingness to support themselves outside their major interest was a given. Encouraging adaptability is also a key, at least in my view.
YMMV. I don't pretend to "know" what is best for you or your kids, but on the other hand, I don't think fitting your round kids in a square hole works either, in my opinion.
I get frustrated with the parental "we'll only pay for a paying career like engineering," even given the reality that many/most kids will never qualify.
I also think trades are a great idea for kids for which they are suited, which are many. Many of the boys with which I went to small high school in Oklahoma did a dual curriculum: academics in the morning, working as apprentices in trades in the afternoon, and many did quite well.
On the other hand, I got an undergrad in English/Poli Sci (had a tuition scholarship and worked in a slaughterhouse in summer for my room/board) and then went to grad school in Cali. My parents didn't want me to go into law (which was the original plan), but they were fine with me doing whatever I thought was best for me.
Curiously, it all turned out fine, at least for me.
Myself, I encouraged my two sons to pursue what they were most interested in: one got a Enology (winemaker) degree at UC Davis and the other a computer engineering/Professional Writing double major at Carnegie Major. The latter's interviewers told him the latter degree was what got him hired at Microsoft. Interesting.
Both of them worked after school at high school; the winemaker worked redoing diesel engines for the city/university transportation partnership at Davis, so a willingness to support themselves outside their major interest was a given. Encouraging adaptability is also a key, at least in my view.
YMMV. I don't pretend to "know" what is best for you or your kids, but on the other hand, I don't think fitting your round kids in a square hole works either, in my opinion.
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dirtbiker
Full time employment: Posting here.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2019
- Messages
- 630
I'm so jealous! In another life I'd like to save a few bucks, sell everything, and ride my motorcycle around the world for a year or two while I'm young and before having kids. Alas, I'm married with four children, so that ship has sailed. I'll have to be content with my once or twice yearly week-long bike trips. Though I daydream of traveling for an extended amount of time. Looks like I need to keep saving and retire early!!!
My son will be graduating from UNOH with his diesel Tech certification, and all of his ASE certs, along with having his CDL. A few years of wrenching on big rigs will probably find him in management/ownership or on to crane operation, heavy equipment operator/supervisor....all of which are 6 figures + (twice $$ what I have ever made).
My 25 year old daughter got a 2 year C.A.D. degree, and currently makes $60,000 a year in her first full year designing petroleum pipeline applications.
My 25 year old daughter got a 2 year C.A.D. degree, and currently makes $60,000 a year in her first full year designing petroleum pipeline applications.
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