Not my problem?

[MichaelB]

I want a gold star. I answered the question.

So, you think just answering the question deserves special recognition? Isn't that another sign of declining culture?

 

[Bestwifeever]

So, you think just answering the question deserves special recognition? Isn't that another sign of declining culture?

Damn straight!

 

[brewer12345]

Don't you people have anything better to do?

 

[Hamlet]

I really don't buy that much of this is actually new behavior. I'm about 40, and I seem to remember that there were plenty of a**holes when I was growing up.

I think two things have changed for most of the people on this board--

1. There are now dozens of outlets to hear about bad behavior. I guarentee that there have always been parents who thought that their kids could do no wrong. You don't hear about good parents because it doesn't make the news/paper/facebook/water cooler conversation.

2. Most of the people on the board have gotten older, crotchetier, and need something to complain about, so they focus more on these things than they would have 30 years ago. Remember that old guy who would take your ball if it went in his yard? You're now him

People have been complaining that society has been going bad for a couple thousand years, but from where I'm sitting, the past appears to have sucked more than the present. In the past, the injustices that people didn't speak up about were slavery and wife-beating. Now they're cutting in line and impolite cell phone useage.

I'd call that progress.

Some interesting responses. The thread wasn't about pet peeves, it was more have we all helped enable these acts by fellow citizens in part because so few people speak up anymore. The expressholes have learned that consequences are highly unlikely, so why not! Imagine if it was more typical for people to speak up, and if the expresshole was hostile/unapologetic, everyone on line would make a statement? Not expecting anyone to go after a line cutting kickboxer, but that's not always the case. I'm pretty sure doing nothing or waiting for someone else won't change anything, probably make bad behavior even more common.

Again the bad kid at school. When I was a kid if my teacher told my parents (or any kid-parent) I was misbehaving at school, they would apologize to the teacher and let me have it that night. Now you hear about parents who immediately say 'my little angel wouldn't do that, you leave him/her alone or I'll sue you.' Did the teachers change, or the parents? Is it any wonder teachers are reluctant to deal with parents? Any wonder that kids push the behavior envelope more than ever? Is all this conducive to educating kids?

You can walk through example after example. No amount of "rules" will matter if there's no peer pressure to reinforce better behavior. Will they?

Again, I've just been doing some thought provoking reading along these lines, I'm still grappling with the ideas. And again, this applies to many acts, many larger than expressholes.

 

[audreyh1]

I think the problem is people are always generalizing everything. And lately, it seems everyone is doing it all the time.

Dang Michael! LOL!

 

[audreyh1]

Marko,
On a positive note, it is fun to go against this societal trend of rude behavior. I make it a point to hold the door open for people, young or old, out in public. I suspect this isn't common behavior, because of the reactions. Most people seem almost shocked, and are typically very thankful.

JP

Good one, JP! Pass it on. I usually go out of my way to be helpful when driving, letting people in, etc.

 

[audreyh1]

I've been reading a lot about how our culture in the US is evolving, for the worse IMO. But a real world example, to see how others view it?

Frankly? I think you should consider changing your reading material. Life is too short, IMO, especially when one is already retired.

Audrey

 

[audreyh1]

Don't you people have anything better to do?

No, LOL! We're retired!

 

[TromboneAl]

Ok, since we're venting. I've been doing this for a while now and it just makes me feel good. Picture a two-lane road that is being merged into a single lane after a traffic light. There are those little merge arrows painted on the road before and after the traffic light. While stopped at the light, some douche will invariably drive on the soon-disappear lane and cut in front of everyone else when the light turns green. So what do I do? I block the lane so no one can pass. On more than one occasion I have gotten dirty looks from other "law-abiders" when they thought that I was going to cut in front of everyone before they realized that I was trying to prevent someone else from doing it.

DW hates it when I do this!

This takes me back to my days commuting in the Bay Area. I did that a lot until someone got out of his car and shot me and I died.

 

[MichaelB]

Don't you people have anything better to do?

Better - yes. More enjoyable? No.

 

[MichaelB]

Damn straight!

Nice.

 

[W2R]

You can walk through example after example. No amount of "rules" will matter if there's no peer pressure to reinforce better behavior. Will they?

But it seems to me that peer pressure can be applied in both a positive and negative way. You can rail against the offender, point out his offense, try to humiliate him, and so on, and that would be negative peer pressure.

Or, as some have tried to describe on this thread, you can lead by good example - - this applies peer pressure too, but in a more positive way. My neighbors who wave, for example.... I would not have waved and smiled when I first arrived here, but started following their example and now I do it by reflex. Had one of them stopped me and asked me why I am so rude and don't wave, I'd probably NEVER wave just out of spite. For me, the positive example worked much better and actually changed my behavior (something that some people would probably swear was impossible! ).

That said, I just got back from the grocery. I actually rolled my eyes at a woman who stepped between me and the sugarfree creamer twice and nearly knocked me over, even though she apologized. I do have a temper but you know, I doubt that my eye-rolling changed her behavior in that respect.

 

[unclemick]

Previously my pet peeve was threads complaining about pet peeves, but it has now been superseded by complaints about threads not about pet peeves!

A day without whinning is like a day without sunshine. Or something.

heh heh heh - Curmudgeon 101. I'm begining to really like this thread.

Bacon? Dryer Sheets? and Psst Wellesley?

 

[RetireBy90]

I think part of the problem is that it is not socially unacceptable. I follow most rules because I'd be embarrassed if I didn't. I also feel rather strongly about doing the right thing, but I'm also kept in check somewhat because of what is expected.

Not sure if this is part of the problem or only another example or symptom...

 

[BigNick]

I don't understand the fuss about the "10 items or fewer" lane. It's not Federal Law. It's the supermarket's saying "In an attempt to trade off between the frustration which certain customers feel when they only have a few items and have to wait a long time, and the more general frustration felt by all customers when they have to wait, we have decided to select an arbitrary number, typically constrained by the number of digits which most people have on their hands, and give specific privileges to those who purchase no more than that number of items, although we have not defined what "item" means. If we were strictly rational, we would not have such a lane; after all, on average, the more items people are purchasing, the more we should be interested in helping them check out faster, since they are better customers. And in a really polite world, people with 100 items would invite people with 3 items to go in front of them, because the person with 3 items will have finished paying before the person with 100 has half-finished unpacking their cart onto the belt."

Given that, much of which seems fairly intuitively obvious to me and therefore, perhaps, to some other people as well (the ones with 15 items!), I don't think that it's a great scandal that people don't take the signs particularly seriously.

 

[Moemg]

I live in Florida where a good deal of the population is older than dirt .The thing I have found is after a certain age they give up any pretense of manners and just let it all hang out . They walk in front of cars daring them to hit them . They jam the grocery aisles by having their cart in the middle and their husband who looks like he doesn't want to be there standing by the side so the whole aisle is blocked . They have long conversations with the speedy check out girl about the weather in Indiana . They wait until all their groceries have been bagged before they locate their check book and proceed to write a check . Then they have to re zip their pocketbook and rearrange everything before they start to leave . The only thing that keeps me from screaming is that in a few years I will be one of them and game on !

 

[Keim]

Not limited to Florida, Moemg.

 

[haha]

I live in Florida where a good deal of the population is older than dirt .The thing I have found is after a certain age they give up any pretense of manners and just let it all hang out . They walk in front of cars daring them to hit them . They jam the grocery aisles by having their cart in the middle and their husband who looks like he doesn't want to be there standing by the side so the whole aisle is blocked . They have long conversations with the speedy check out girl about the weather in Indiana . They wait until all their groceries have been bagged before they locate their check book and proceed to write a check . Then they have to re zip their pocketbook and rearrange everything before they start to leave . The only thing that keeps me from screaming is that in a few years I will be one of them and game on !

I think they maybe just do not process social information so well anymore. Is this a possible explanation?

Ha

 

[unclemick]

Ya won't revoke my Curmudgeon certificate if I confess to letting people with only a few items go ahead of me.

heh heh heh - I do get to mention I'm not in a hurry BECAUSE I'M RETIRED!!

 

[tangomonster]

Midpack, I think this OpEd piece from the Atlanta Journal Constitution touches upon what you were thinking:

Don’t set bar low on behavior  | ajc.com

It's written by a former judge. The most salient points are:

"My point is, we all do things we know aren’t great but we tell ourselves they’re no big deal. Sociologists call this phenomenon “defining deviancy down” — a phrase coined by the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who argued that as people become accustomed to deviant behavior, we lower the “normal” level of acceptable conduct.
In other words, when you put up with bad behavior for too long, it can become normal to you.
The types of behaviors that have “defined deviancy down” cover a broad spectrum — using profane language (once unacceptable, now the norm), bearing children out of wedlock, driving up credit-card debt, cheating on income taxes, and the proliferation of sex and violence in the media."


She ends the piece by saying:


"In these examples, the behavior in question is tolerated — even accepted — as bad, yet not so bad. The behavior has become the norm, rather than just plain wrong.
We should all examine ourselves carefully to make sure that the way we live our lives serves only to contribute in a positive way to the world in which we live. We should speak up when we see things that aren’t right and uproot our own petty offenses before the bar is set so low that what is deemed unacceptable becomes the standard by which we must all live.
We can start by swearing a little less, watching less smutty television and refusing to look the other way when we see something undeniably wrong, like condoned cheating. In so doing, each of us will do our part to stop “defining deviance down.” "


Of course, she admits to adding to the problem (frequent use of profanity, watching Real Housewives, not speaking up). But I do think she touches upon what you initiated in the original post. The cutting into a grocery line with more than the allotted number may be a little thing, but it's part of defining deviance down. So---do we go with the mantra of "Don't sweat the small stuff---it's all small stuff" or do we do our part, as she suggests, to stop defining deviance so that we don't become even less civil to each other?

 

[marko]

I live in Florida where a good deal of the population is older than dirt .The thing I have found is after a certain age they give up any pretense of manners and just let it all hang out . They walk in front of cars daring them to hit them . They jam the grocery aisles by having their cart in the middle and their husband who looks like he doesn't want to be there standing by the side so the whole aisle is blocked . They have long conversations with the speedy check out girl about the weather in Indiana . They wait until all their groceries have been bagged before they locate their check book and proceed to write a check . Then they have to re zip their pocketbook and rearrange everything before they start to leave . The only thing that keeps me from screaming is that in a few years I will be one of them and game on !

This is the other side of the coin, isn't it!

One could argue that the loss of civility (at any age) could be liberating.

Early in life, someone told me to fight the battles you think you can win.

If the expectations are now so low, why fight a losing battle and give yourself heartburn when you could just do your own thing, 'horray for me to h*ll with you'.

No one cares! Its expected.

We've reached the point where YOU are the problem if you complain (you're intolerant/racist/out of touch) about poor manners.

Stop stressing and just go for it!

 

[eridanus]

It's written by a former judge.

And a current curmudgeon.

She's complaining about naughty words? Seriously? Shiiiiit.

 

[Hamlet]

I think we should also talk about "defining deviancy up".

There are many areas of our life that are much improved over the past. Remember, it wasn't too long ago when--

1. Discrimination and racial slurs were an accepted societal norm.
2. Wife-beating and child abuse were considered a private concern
3. Sexual harrassment and date rape were just boys being boys.
4. Drunk driving was no big deal
5. Seat belts were considered optional for children

A little more swearing seems a small price to pay for the big improvements in our society.

My point is, we all do things we know aren’t great but we tell ourselves they’re no big deal. Sociologists call this phenomenon “defining deviancy down”

 

[TromboneAl]

And a current curmudgeon.

She's complaining about naughty words? Seriously? Shiiiiit.

And having kids out of wedlock.

That damn bastard has 12 items!

 

[urn2bfree]

Yeah. It we can have a more tolerant and open society with out paying the "price" of in civility and rude and inconsiderate behavior.