Options for my mother

[DangerMouse]

One thing you have to consider which seems obvious from her actions is she seems like she does not want to live. If that is the case does anyone have the right to intervene? Does anyone have the right to impose their will on her.

It must be tough to watch this going on, you are in a no win situation. I wonder if a few sessions with a shrink might help her deal with what is going on with her mentally and help her get on the path to resolving her issues that are behind her current actions.

Good luck with whatever path you take. It must be painful to be an observer in this situation

 

[utrecht]

So sorry to hear this, both for you and your mom. I agree with everyone above, tough love is the only way to go. Perhaps she became depressed aft the death of her husband? Did she have an grief counseling at the time? Often in the elderly depression is overlooked when one of the couple dies and the other tends to let themselves go.

I know for a fact a good assisted living home will not keep her if she is drinking, they are worried about falls and such.

Also very important is that she not detox alone from either the alcohol nor the other drug. She must be monitored.

Wishing you the best of luck.






Queenie

Yes Im sure that shes depressed over the loss of her husband, although she never talks about it. Im sure shes even more depressed now that her life consists of wake up in pain, watch TV all day and go to bed in pain. She can barely drag herself and her walker to the bathroom, let alone leave the house. She only drank socially before her husband died and she didnt have anywhere near the kind of debilitating pain back then so no need for the pain medicine. She was a normal happy 60 year old.

Im really at a loss on how to even breach this whole subject with her.

The few times Ive said anything to her at all went like this:

Her: I need to see a doctor about how badly my feet and ankles are swollen.

Me: Its probably from sitting in one place all day. You need to try to move around more to get better circulation

Her: How am I supposed to do that? I cant even walk to the refridgerator.

She has basically lost hope.

 

[utrecht]

One thing you have to consider which seems obvious from her actions is she seems like she does not want to live. If that is the case does anyone have the right to intervene? Does anyone have the right to impose their will on her.

It must be tough to watch this going on, you are in a no win situation. I wonder if a few sessions with a shrink might help her deal with what is going on with her mentally and help her get on the path to resolving her issues that are behind her current actions.

Good luck with whatever path you take. It must be painful to be an observer in this situation

Trust me, Ive considered that at great length. I sure as hell wouldnt want to live in her situation. Thats the main reason up to this point that Ive continued to buy her alcohol and cigarrettes. We dont talk about this kind of stuff but Im sure she realizes she doesnt have much time left based on how quickly shes deteriorated. Who am I to tell her not to drink if she only has a year left no matter what she does?

 

[Queenie]

Utrecht, She is crying for help. Be tough, she will kick and scream but I have a feeling she will be grateful. This looks like a major depression, get her into rehab and to see a psychiatrist who can once she is detoxed prescribe anti depressants. She can kick the addictions and get her health back. Don't let her just slip into death this way. No one deserves that, she has only lost hope, help her not lose her dignity also.

Queenie

 

[FIREd]

One thing you have to consider which seems obvious from her actions is she seems like she does not want to live. If that is the case does anyone have the right to intervene? Does anyone have the right to impose their will on her.

That was my first thought as well. Perhaps she has decided not to go on for much longer.

The tricky part is how does one determine if this is her own, conscious decision or if her addiction and perhaps other medical conditions (depression for example) have warped her reality so much that she doesn't see anymore the choices before her.

 

[chinaco]

The stubborn thing is very common. No single way to handle it (IMO).

You might consider contacting your community's social services for information and help getting pointed in the right direction.

You may have to have a family intervention with her (other children, her siblings, etc.).

 

[GregLee]

Me: Its probably from sitting in one place all day. You need to try to move around more to get better circulation

Her: How am I supposed to do that? I cant even walk to the refridgerator.

I understand that this is just meant to illustrate the general problem. Nonetheless, I'll point out that this specific difficulty may have a solution. After my mother had a stroke, then broke her hip, the home care therapy nurse recommended an inexpensive little pedal device that you can use from a seated position to exercise the large muscles in the legs. You just pedal it like a bicycle. I found one at my local drugstore.

 

[MichaelB]

She has basically lost hope.

She may have lost hope, this may be depression, or the drugs and alcohol may be affecting her judgement.

What would be my first step when you guys say "lay it out to her doctor"? If she needs a "new doctor", what kind of doctor? Im going to try the advice you guys are giving but remember that shes not mentally disabled or incapacitated so I have no power to make her do anything and shes VERY stubborn. She wont even admit that shes weak because she doesnt eat enough.

I would write a summary of the facts. Which doctors she is seeing, what medicines she is taking, how much she is eating, and how much she is drinking, how long this has been going on. The lying on the floor for 10 hours. Then check to see if any of the physicians she is currently seeing are internists or family doctors. If so, schedule an appointment with him/her. Otherwise, choose one from her insurance plan. Accompany her to the appointment, ask for a HIPAA form, fill it out and ask her to sign it. Make copy, give original to the office staff. Now you can go in with your mother to see the doctor and later discuss her case without her being present. Give him/her the paper you wrote. She needs to be treated for her swelling but now you can also ask for a physical and/or blood work to see if there is another undiagnosed problem.

Im really at a loss on how to even breach this whole subject with her.

The few times Ive said anything to her at all went like this:

Her: I need to see a doctor about how badly my feet and ankles are swollen.

This is your opportunity.

It is very difficult to deal with family members that need help, almost impossible without their cooperation. Support groups can help and there are therapists with experience in this. If you choose to attempt to help the first thing you need is qualified, professional help to guide you.

 

[freebird5825]

...She has many doctors.

1) A pain management doctor
2) Lung doctor
3) A new doctor shes about to see for severe swelling in her feet and ankles (to me its obvious its from lack of circulation from never moving around)
4) Some other doctor she goes to every 4 months to get some spinal tap type of cortisone injections directly into her spine...

It is very possible that your mother is engaging in what they call "doctor shopping". If she takes the painkillers in great quantity, it is possible that she has multiple Rx, all active, from different physicians. Do the math.

I would like to suggest that YOU alone make an appointment, first with her pain management doctor. Describe what her life consists of, and DEFINITELY inform that doctor about her alcohol consumption along with the pain killers. Show him/her the receipts for the booze and tobacco, and tell that doctor exactly what is going on.

By law, none of her doctors cannot discuss her medical records with you without the HIPAA, however...since the pain management doctor is the source of one of the addictive substances, this doctor has the power to withhold a prescription (new or refill) to ensure your mother's compliance with a scheduled appointment that that office sets with him/her. If she chooses to not show up, bye bye painkiller Rx. That in itself will be a powerful motivator for compliance.

If I am wrong, there are several medical folks here who may be able to correct what I am saying or refine your options. Please chime in.

A high school friend played the "doctor shopping" game for her painkillers, cleverly using different pharmacies, for 10 years until her husband finally put 2 and 2 together. He went to each and every physician, on his own, and rooted out the issue. Her primary physician confronted her alone and made her go to rehab. She is now drug and alcohol free. Happy ending.

 

[Nuiloa]

The few times Ive said anything to her at all went like this:

Her: I need to see a doctor about how badly my feet and ankles are swollen.

Me: Its probably from sitting in one place all day. You need to try to move around more to get better circulation

Her: How am I supposed to do that? I cant even walk to the refridgerator.

She has basically lost hope.

She's crying for help! Unfortunately, as we learned with my mom, trying to make helpful suggestions only made her dig her heels in. She once told us that saying things like "it's probably from sitting in one place all day" sounded judgmental. It's like telling a fat person to lose weight. Well, duh!

A better response would be "You're right. You do need to see a doctor. Why don't I set up the appointment and I'll go with you. After that, we can take ourselves out for a nice lunch". It gives her something to look forward to but it also calls her bluff - and you can talk to the doctor about what your concerns too.

More important than her physical well-being though, is her mental health. A lot of aches and pains go away when you're surrounded by friends and laughter.

Please "tough love" her. And good luck!

 

[Nords]

Based on my debit card transactions shes drinking about a bottle of Vodka every 4 days. I dont drink so Im no expert. Where would you say this ranks on the "alcoholic" scale? From 1-10 with 10 being "time for rehab".

I learned from a geriatric nurse that at that age, especially in women, one drink per day may be enough. Two would be pushing it. The body's not processing the alcohol quickly enough to enable her to sober up as fast as younger women.

Considering the medication with the alcohol, she's at about an 11 on the alcoholic scale.

Who am I to tell her not to drink if she only has a year left no matter what she does?

I guess you have to decide how you'll feel when a family member labels you an enabler.

 

[Meadbh]

I agree with what many people have said. Your mother is at significant risk of sudden death at any time from an OD (not to mention a myocardial infarction or stroke). She is caught in a vicious circle of two addictions and possibly depression as well, which may be a big factor in this self destructive behaviour. She may have given up. You seem to have given up on her too. That's unfortunate, because with the right intervention, there is hope here. I hate to be so direct, but please be a good son and get her an intervention, NOW.

 

[FreeAtLast]

I take her to her doctor appointments but have never spoken to any of the doctors because Ive been trying not to make her feel like a child by taking over her life. .

I am sorry to hear about your Mom and her problem. It is time for you to start speaking with the doctors. Yes, you may hurt her feelings for a while but you might also save her life. Hopefully she will appreciate what you are doing to help her at some point. You have to be strong and take the lead. That is just your responsibility in life now. Get some professional help if you feel you have a hard time taking the lead. That is why professionals are out there.
Best of luck to both you and your mom.

 

[utrecht]

After reading all of this advice and also talking with a friend who we just found out had the same issues with her mother, my wife and I are formulating a game plan. I will report back soon. Thank you to everyone who responded.

 

[sheehs1]

utrecht..So very sorry for this situation. Don't think I can add much more than what others have said. Your mom is not thinking clearly....if at all. It's not the smoking. It is the pills, alcohol and depression. I'd say the first step is detox if you can get her to agree. If you can not, committing her.....becoming her legal guardian... is a very last step option but one that should be considered to save her life. We experienced a similar situation with my dad (alcoholism). He went into detox 3 times between the ages of 65 and 77. At one point we, the family, had to consider committment . His doctor finally talked him into the first round of detox. Whatever you do...do not take her alcohol or pills away. The withdrawal could kill her. She needs to be in a medical facility during any form of detox. She will also get the much needed support and counseling while in there.

 

[utrecht]

I have another update to report and its not a good one. I had last posted on 9/22 that my wife and I were coming up with a game plan on how to talk to my mother about all of the issues that I brought up. We visited and brought her meals each of the following days. One day she looked pretty bad, the next she looked better, was holding a normal conversation and moving around with her walker.

On Monday 9/26 we went to visit and she was in very bad shape. She was disoriented and confused. She was having trouble breathing and couldn't sit up by herself. We brought her to the emergency room and without getting into details, she passed away yesterday. We found out that she had a very aggressive form of lung cancer which had also spread to her liver. She had pneumonia and a variety of other less serious issues.

Obviously I felt very guilty about the whole situation but the doctor has assured me that she wouldn't have survived much more than another week or two no matter what we had done. After talking to more doctors I now believe that she knew she had cancer and was either in denial or didn't want to worry us (or both) which is why she didnt tell us anything and why she didn't get the care she needed. My brother and sister are all here and we are doing OK emotionally.

This brings me to the reason for posting so soon after her death. I am the executor of her will and would love to hear any advice you all have for me. She will be cremated and all of those arrangements have been made. I have notified Social Security. I have a power of attorney to handle all financial matters (bank accounts, real estate ect).

I have some specific questions

1) Do I need to file the will somewhere?
2) Does the will supercede the beneficiary info on her IRA. There are 4 of us kids and we are all listed 25% each on her IRA but her will specifically excludes one of her kids entirely and says that all of her assets should be split 3 ways. My brother who has been excluded is not here with us and has no idea what money she does or does not have. I dont expect him to cause a problem but if the IRA beneficiary is not superceded by the will I assume they will send his portion directly to him?
3) My mother has a 6 figure estate, but I believe there is no death tax since her estate is under a million?
4) I dont think she has life insurance but is there some way for me to find out? Is there some registry somewhere that can check? I cant very well call every insurance company and ask.

Feel free to advise me on any other isse you know will come up that I probably havent even considered yet.

 

[Buckeye]

I'm so sorry you lost your mother. The incredible twists and turns life takes. You just never know.

 

[W2R]

utrecht, I am so sorry to hear about your mother. My condolences to you and your whole family.

I have never been an executor, but my brother was when my mother died. He said that EVERYBODY wanted an official death certificate, and that he had obtained 20 and was worried that wasn't enough.

So, if/when you get to order them, get a lot. That's the only thing I can contribute and I hope others have some good advice for you.

My brother is a CPA, so he had that covered, plus he had her lawyer, an estate lawyer, and her CPA to help him with various things such as her final tax return and so on. There was a lot of work to do. It is important to let your siblings know everything you are doing in regular updates, so they feel you are being open and honest with them. At least, his regular emails on his progress helped me to just know what he was doing. Otherwise I would not have realized that he was actually doing so much and that it really does take that much time.

 

[MichaelB]

My condolences on the loss of your Mother. From everything you’ve posted to now you have no reason to feel guilty at all.

Regarding the will, a six figure estate will probably need to be probated if it is not part of the IRA. The IRA beneficiary designation is final regardless of what the will says.

 

[Purron]

I'm very sad to hear about the loss of your mom. You are a good person. You worried about her declining health but never once put her down for her weaknesses. You just tried everything to help her including reaching out here. Now you're facing the estate settlement. I wish I could offer advice but have no expertise in this area. I'm sure others around here who are much smarter than me about these issues will chime in. Rest in peace utrecht mom.

 

[GregLee]

1) Do I need to file the will somewhere?

Judging only from my own experience when my mother died, no, unless she had property whose ownership is left unclear. I suppose it might be worthwhile checking this out with a lawyer, which is what I did (for $50), and was told I needn't file the will anywhere.

 

[utrecht]

My condolences on the loss of your Mother. From everything you’ve posted to now you have no reason to feel guilty at all.

Regarding the will, a six figure estate will probably need to be probated if it is not part of the IRA. The IRA beneficiary designation is final regardless of what the will says.

Why? Cant I just liquidate everything, split up the money and be done with it? Why does a judge need to be involved? If nobody contests anything there shouldn't be a problem, should there?

 

[Moemg]

I am very sorry to hear about your Mom .

 

[Nuiloa]

Why? Cant I just liquidate everything, split up the money and be done with it? Why does a judge need to be involved? If nobody contests anything there shouldn't be a problem, should there?

I'm the executor for my mom's will. I agree that you will probably need a lot of copies of the death certificate - everyone wants them.

Keep some money in reserve for taxes. We kept about 1/3rd of the estate to hand out to the money-grubbers.

The only other advice: document everything! Keep every receipt. Just because everyone is getting along now, doesn't mean they will later. CYA.

 

[powerplay]

My condolences, it is difficult losing a parent. May she rest in peace. You now know what was going on with her and that there was no way to make it better. You did all that could be done for your mother and you should take comfort in knowing that.

As for the estate settlement, do get multiple death certificates. I believe they may be a little less $ if ordered all at the same time. Not sure if you need 20 though it depends on how many banks or financial institutions she had accounts with and property she owned.
Life insurance if she had any would probably be found somewhere in her home or safe deposit box if she had one. I'm not aware of anyway to search for a life insurance policy, but others here may have some ideas. You could check her name on the unclaimed property list for your state which may produce info about any forgotten accounts. Start at
NAUPA