Owning Home vs. Independent Living

[RetiredHappy]

I have relatives with ASD. This would be a gigantic and overwhelming task for your son. Please make it as seamless as possible. I vote for option 4, especially if you’d like to spend more time around your son.

Fortunately my son is highly intelligent and holds 2 Bachelor's Degrees from State universities, with a 3.8 GPA in his Accounting degree. His short term memory processing is shot, and it is hard for him to follow conversations. He works in a minimum wage job. He does not do well with stress and likes his routine.

 

[Cayman]

You can sort and identify valuables now. The rest can go to auction or donate after you both pass. We donated the majority of a 5,000 sq. ft. home when we ER'd, it's very easy to do.

Also, a vote for Del Webb and similar communities. So many activities with a full time activities director and many clubs. It's easy to make friends and cultivate new/existing hobbies and interests in an environment designed for active senior living.

 

[Koolau]

Sounds great! You should be happy there.

It is amazing how things change once you lose your spouse.

A data point I can give you is we lived in a very nice 55+ community with lots of activities. But it was surprising to me the number of widows living there vs, widowed men. Probably a 5 to 1 ratio from the calculations I made using the community resident list and estimates from neighbors. Seems like most men move out right after the wife passes and the women seem to stay.

As Maverick said to Goose: A target rich environment.

 

[Koolau]

Whatever your decision, I would suggest setting up a process that following your passage, someone is hired to come in and sell, distribute, give away everything - leaving your son no extra hassle and (hopefully) a nice check to cash.

 

[aja8888]

As Maverick said to Goose: A target rich environment.

You have it wrong. Most old guys don't want a repeat performance. While I was the willing caretaker for my sick wife for almost 7 years, I'm relieved that it's over and I am happy with just me and the dog going forward. I still like to be around the opposite sex, but I am not wanting to "join up" with one on a semi-permanent basis.

 

[Koolau]

You have it wrong. Most old guys don't want a repeat performance. While I was the willing caretaker for my sick wife for almost 7 years, I'm relieved that it's over and I am happy with just me and the dog going forward. I still like to be around the opposite sex, but I am not wanting to "join up" with one on a semi-permanent basis.

Heh, heh, then get a young one to take care of you.

 

[Chuckanut]

You have it wrong. Most old guys don't want a repeat performance. While I was the willing caretaker for my sick wife for almost 7 years, I'm relieved that it's over and I am happy with just me and the dog going forward. I still like to be around the opposite sex, but I am not wanting to "join up" with one on a semi-permanent basis.

Neither do the women. I’ve known several who have spent years and years taking care of their aging husband. They were fun to be with, but made it clear from the beginning that no legally enforceable relationship was wanted.

I think what people want in your situation (and there a lot of who are widowed or divorced) is a different performance not a repeat performance.

It’s a new stage of life. One in which at many levels it is best to avoid the legal and family complications of a 2nd marriage. Yet, it can still be enjoyable.

 

[Aerides]

Thanks. Definitely alot to think about.

My ideal option which I did not list is to buy a moderate size home in his area, with a dual masters, or like next gen type home, and have him move in with me. He can have the main house while I take the "in-law" portion. That way, there is not even a need to sell the home after I die. I was making suggestions for him to sell his home somewhere down the line, and he basically said he has no plans to ever move out of his home.

He is the most important person in my life and I will do anything, within legal limits, for him.

In your case I would tag a couple of homes on his street, next door, etc., on Zillow and watch them, get alerts and such. If one that is ideal for you goes on sale, you can perhaps buy it now and either leave it empty to visit, or rent it out - assuming you have the assets to do so. That way you have your future location ready, as well as a nice place of your own when visiting.

As far as the stuff, you can streamline that now for your own lifestyle, and just plan for the clean up/out in your estate planning.

 

[pacergal]

Is there space to add on a larger master suite to his house so you don't have to climb stairs? Or build/buy a tiny home on his property for you if you want/need some separation? The largest 'tiny' home I have seen was 1000 sq ft, a nice size.
Aerides suggestion of buying a home for yourself on his street is a good one, too.

Is your DS ok with you nearby or is he adamant that you move in? What are his concerns?

 

[RetiredHappy]

He bought his home new in a small development in 2017, and it is in one of the rehab areas but very central to freeway and downtown. The homes are very well-built but on zero lot line, so addition is not an option. The other issue is that the homes are supposed to have 2-car tandem garage, but it is very narrow, and while it may hold 2, it is really not an option for me. All homes in that development have bedrooms upstairs due to shoebox size lots.

My son thinks it is a waste of money that I buy another home instead of moving into his home. My first home was in a very desirable zip code, which I have since sold, and that is about 4 miles from his home. He likes the whole area because that's where he grew up since we moved here, when he started middle school (private as I wanted to minimize bullying for him). There are a ton of great homes within 15 minutes of his home. I am sure I will find something when it is time to make a move there, which is probably a decade or so away.

 

[MarieIG]

You know your son best - and have time to develop a plan which is beneficial to both your son and yourself. Good luck.

 

[Retired Expat]

I would stay where you are because you are happy there. You can always downsize your stuff if you have too much while still living there. As others have mentioned you can hire a realtor to handle everything so your son won’t be burdened. Finding your tribe is not always possible after a move. There’s no way I would give up my friends and home if I was happy.

+1 stay where you are in the life that make you happy. Start a Marie Kondo review ( i think that is here name) and start getting rid of things you don't use or don't Spark Joy is the expression I think . You would be amazed how much you can part with. Having dealt with my parents stuff.... none of it was worth anywhere near what they thought. Really much of it had to be paid to be removed. But they lived in hight rises in Manhattan. from a suburban home it is much easier to have a tag sale.

But you may just find that clearing out stuff and reducing clutter or letting go of tchochkies will change your perception of what you would need to move to should you decide to do that.

 

[RetiredHappy]

We are not concerned about how much our "stuff" will sell for. We enjoy all furnishings and art work that we have at home. There is no reason to "get rid" of them right now. My only concern is that by leaving my home as it is, my son will get paralyzed by what to do with the home. It is his indecision that I have to worry about. Some of you may have missed the part where I said he has ASD. I will have to find the easiest path for him to settle the estate. There is no urgency in solving this now as I expect that I will be faced with the decision a decade from now.

 

[zippy2020]

If you want to make it easier on your son, then downsize so that you are the one deciding what to keep and what to get rid of. There are agencies that will help seniors downsize because it is a BIG job, if you have lived there for a good long while.

As to what you do after that, it's up to you. I would personally pick a place with Asst. Lvg, as in our state all such facilities also have Independent Lvg (that way they don't have to bother with two license requirements and annual inspections, just one set).

I would not assume that I will not need Asst. Lvg for a long while, because you just never know what's going to happen.

Make sure the place you move has a parking space assigned to it, check out the availability and desirability of the golf courses nearby both public and private as well.

Also very critical - will you be satisfied with the healthcare available in your new area? What happens if you have an accident and can't drive - is there public transportation, taxis, buses, Uber/Lyft, rental cars available?

Having settled two estates, I can attest that just dealing with the personal property side is incredibly time-consuming. Add in a RE sale, and it's double the trouble.

Make sure you update your legal documents ASAP if you do sell your home.

 

[RetiredHappy]

If you want to make it easier on your son, then downsize so that you are the one deciding what to keep and what to get rid of. There are agencies that will help seniors downsize because it is a BIG job, if you have lived there for a good long while.

You might have missed my post where I mentioned that we just moved into our current home 2 years ago and have done massive renovation. It is the perfect home for us. We are not going to sell anytime soon. I am also not old and feeble yet.

But yes, I will need to do something about it down the line. I will also move back to his state.

 

[Librarian]

I have been the child in this circumstance

This is pre-mature but I sometimes think about it.

Assuming my husband goes before I do, I have to make a decision as to where I want to live. My son would like me to move in with him and he won't want to move out of his home. We have had that conversation about it. With his disability (ASD), changes are hard and I won't want to move into his small home, and climb stairs to go up to the bedrooms.

I can remain in my home but the concern is that it will be much too stressful and difficult for him to sort through my stuff and list it for sale after I die. I am in a different state from his. We have a ton of art work and nice stuff. We belong to the country club here and I golf alot but I am willing to give it up.

I have 4 options:
- Remain in my home and he will have to deal with the sale of my home when I die. Not a preferred choice.
- Sell my home, buy another home closer to his home. Decorate minimally. Probably easier to prepare the home for sale if the home is sparsely furnished. Golf at public courses.
- Sell my home, buy another home in his city, like a Del Webb with golf courses. Decorate minimally.
- Sell my home. Move into a nice independent living cottage in his city without worrying that he will have to sell my home after I die. Assuming that I am allowed to keep my car. Golf at public courses.

Money is not a concern. I want it to be easier for him to handle my affairs after I pass.

Thoughts?

DM passed last year & DF moved to assisted living (tho we now realize he could have done independent...tho it is close. Likes where he is, doesn't want to move to the other side, so staying)
Cleaning out there house (VERY little of value) was OVERWHELMING. And I don't have ASD>

Forget #1.
Downsize now.
DH & I did 5 years ago--BEST THING WE EVER DID.
Bought a townhome & purged A LOT.

If you like to golf, a 55+ community on a golf course sounds brilliant.
We were looking at those in Vegas (Sun City, etc).

Obviously owning a home is financially a better deal.
I would look at a townhome/condo that would require less maintenance by you (our HOAs cover lawn/snow).

I would only consider independent living if you are no longer want the hassle of home maintenance AT ALL, or you are beginning to have safety concerns about living alone at a certain age.

55+ communities often have events for socializing (as independent living would have).

Only you can decide which living situation is most desirable for you--THAT is the defining factor.

But taking care of the bulk of "cleaning out" now will be a GIFT for your son.

 

[RetMD21]

DM passed last year & DF moved to assisted living (tho we now realize he could have done independent...tho it is close. Likes where he is, doesn't want to move to the other side, so staying)
Cleaning out there house (VERY little of value) was OVERWHELMING. And I don't have ASD>
....

Obviously owning a home is financially a better deal.
I would look at a townhome/condo that would require less maintenance by you (our HOAs cover lawn/snow).

I would only consider independent living if you are no longer want the hassle of home maintenance AT ALL, or you are beginning to have safety concerns about living alone at a certain age.
...

Independent living varies. My mother was in a "cottage" on the grounds of a retirement community in a smallish 2 bedroom detached unit with a 1 car garage with full kitchen and laundry. Other folks lived in the "tower" and had smallish kitchens from what I understood. They had access to the dining room via elevator. The complex added larger detached 2 br units with 2 car garages that were drawing a younger 70 ish crowd.

It's not obvious to me that owning is always better.

 

[Librarian]

My POV

Independent living varies. My mother was in a "cottage" on the grounds of a retirement community in a smallish 2 bedroom detached unit with a 1 car garage with full kitchen and laundry. Other folks lived in the "tower" and had smallish kitchens from what I understood. They had access to the dining room via elevator. The complex added larger detached 2 br units with 2 car garages that were drawing a younger 70 ish crowd.

It's not obvious to me that owning is always better.

ENTIRELY from a $ POV--I was referring to those you "rent" as my father does.
There are 55+ communities where one can buy their home.
But typically "independent" living facilities are rented.

 

[jayanu]

This is pre-mature but I sometimes think about it.

Assuming my husband goes before I do, I have to make a decision as to where I want to live. My son would like me to move in with him and he won't want to move out of his home. We have had that conversation about it. With his disability (ASD), changes are hard and I won't want to move into his small home and climb stairs to go up to the bedrooms.

I can remain in my home but the concern is that it will be much too stressful and difficult for him to sort through my stuff and list it for sale after I die. I am in a different state from his. We have a ton of art work and nice stuff. We belong to the country club here and I golf alot but I am willing to give it up.

I have 4 options:
- Remain in my home and he will have to deal with the sale of my home when I die. Not a preferred choice.
- Sell my home, buy another home closer to his home. Decorate minimally. Probably easier to prepare the home for sale if the home is sparsely furnished. Golf at public courses.
- Sell my home, buy another home in his city, like a Del Webb with golf courses. Decorate minimally.
- Sell my home. Move into a nice independent living cottage in his city without worrying that he will have to sell my home after I die. Assuming that I am allowed to keep my car. Golf at public courses.

Money is not a concern. I want it to be easier for him to handle my affairs after I pass.

Thoughts?

An important factor you must add to the decision-making process is the medical cost of retirement.

70% of the population will need Long Term Care - at home, assisted living, nursing home, or Dementia ward (and lastly, Hospice - free under Medicare). Long Term Care Insurance (LTCi) is expensive and not adequate depending on your medical situation and the age when you buy.

Look at the cost of such costs in various states at
https://www.genworth.com/aging-and-you/finances/cost-of-care.html.
We looked at LTCi at age 70, which was $2,800/month; your quote will vary!

You should consider living in a Continued Care Retirement Community (CCRC). There are various types. I prefer Type - A - Lifecare which guarantees you long-term care for a lifetime as part of your monthly fees.
Other types will charge you at the market rate or a slightly discounted market rate.

Active 55+ Adult community does NOT have medical.

CCRCs have a variety of floor plans for independent, carefree living, from condos to Townhomes and Villas. And the medical services are on the campus and guaranteed LTC beds for you if needed. You do need your medical insurance for doctors, hospitals, and medicines.

I have a few documents based on my experience that you can look at as to why and the cost scenario.


My presentation on why one should think of a CCRC and where we are
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1CE1j7c2Ut8O6340oa7RKF_9P3utqYC1Ed-mn4f5VqiM/edit?usp=sharing

Fees at where we are
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1CE1j7c2Ut8O6340oa7RKF_9P3utqYC1Ed-mn4f5VqiM/edit?usp=sharing

Cost comparison of staying in a home vs a CCRC.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F7geilNMvtXPr-3548cRxeFzeFT8pn0VjXQXGD4PvyM/edit?usp=sharing

Look at the US News and Word survey also. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-lDNfBzI8X-iz6pnaTdNqhGLCA_OU218rcQGraogvFM/edit?usp=sharing

https://health.usnews.com/best-senior-living/ccrc/pennsylvania

You should ensure that the CCRC is non-profit and has an "A-" or higher Credit rating from Fitch. I have that if you need it.

There are ~1960 CCRC in the USA. 80% are nonprofit (my preference); some, like ours, do not accept Medicaid-dependent residents. The reimbursement is low, so that the quality may suffer.

The majority (~135) are in PA. PA does not charge State Income tax on retirement income like SS, Pension, RMSD, etc., but has a 4% inheritance tax.

A portion of Entrance fees and monthly fees are deductible in Federal income taxes as a Prequalified Medical tax - it can be a large number and can be helpful based on your tax bracket. Make sure to check how much is available for such a deduction!

LTCi premium is also deductible but only ~$5,000/year.
Thanks.
Love
Jay Shah

 

[Koolau]

An important factor you must add to the decision-making process is the medical cost of retirement.

70% of the population will need Long Term Care - at home, assisted living, nursing home, or Dementia ward (and lastly, Hospice - free under Medicare). Long Term Care Insurance (LTCi) is expensive and not adequate depending on your medical situation and the age when you buy.

Look at the cost of such costs in various states at
https://www.genworth.com/aging-and-you/finances/cost-of-care.html.
We looked at LTCi at age 70, which was $2,800/month; your quote will vary!

You should consider living in a Continued Care Retirement Community (CCRC). There are various types. I prefer Type - A - Lifecare which guarantees you long-term care for a lifetime as part of your monthly fees.
Other types will charge you at the market rate or a slightly discounted market rate.

Active 55+ Adult community does NOT have medical.

CCRCs have a variety of floor plans for independent, carefree living, from condos to Townhomes and Villas. And the medical services are on the campus and guaranteed LTC beds for you if needed. You do need your medical insurance for doctors, hospitals, and medicines.

I have a few documents based on my experience that you can look at as to why and the cost scenario.


My presentation on why one should think of a CCRC and where we are
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1CE1j7c2Ut8O6340oa7RKF_9P3utqYC1Ed-mn4f5VqiM/edit?usp=sharing

Fees at where we are
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1CE1j7c2Ut8O6340oa7RKF_9P3utqYC1Ed-mn4f5VqiM/edit?usp=sharing

Cost comparison of staying in a home vs a CCRC.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F7geilNMvtXPr-3548cRxeFzeFT8pn0VjXQXGD4PvyM/edit?usp=sharing

Look at the US News and Word survey also. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-lDNfBzI8X-iz6pnaTdNqhGLCA_OU218rcQGraogvFM/edit?usp=sharing

https://health.usnews.com/best-senior-living/ccrc/pennsylvania

You should ensure that the CCRC is non-profit and has an "A-" or higher Credit rating from Fitch. I have that if you need it.

There are ~1960 CCRC in the USA. 80% are nonprofit (my preference); some, like ours, do not accept Medicaid-dependent residents. The reimbursement is low, so that the quality may suffer.

The majority (~135) are in PA. PA does not charge State Income tax on retirement income like SS, Pension, RMSD, etc., but has a 4% inheritance tax.

A portion of Entrance fees and monthly fees are deductible in Federal income taxes as a Prequalified Medical tax - it can be a large number and can be helpful based on your tax bracket. Make sure to check how much is available for such a deduction!

LTCi premium is also deductible but only ~$5,000/year.
Thanks.
Love
Jay Shah

Wow. Thanks for the info. It's a lot to chew on.

The one thing I worry about CCRCs is whether they are financially sound. I've heard of CCRCs essentially declaring bankruptcy and shoving everyone out. Don't know if that's correct, but I have to assume it could happen.

Of course, CCRC usually require a finical check on potential residents to be certain they can pay. Also, they require medical records and maybe an exam to be certain you aren't going to end up in the "nursing" facility right away or soon. In any case, there are some hoops to jump through. YMMV

 

[flyingaway]

We are not concerned about how much our "stuff" will sell for. We enjoy all furnishings and art work that we have at home. There is no reason to "get rid" of them right now. My only concern is that by leaving my home as it is, my son will get paralyzed by what to do with the home. It is his indecision that I have to worry about. Some of you may have missed the part where I said he has ASD. I will have to find the easiest path for him to settle the estate. There is no urgency in solving this now as I expect that I will be faced with the decision a decade from now.

Every time my wife and I get on the airplane for a trip, we worry about our son. If we both die unexpectedly, he will have enough money to last for his life. What we worry about is that he doesn't pay any attention to his money and he might lose it soon if we are not take care of his stuffs.

 

[Koolau]

Every time my wife and I get on the airplane for a trip, we worry about our son. If we both die unexpectedly, he will have enough money to last for his life. What we worry about is that he doesn't pay any attention to his money and he might lose it soon if we are not take care of his stuffs.

There are ways to set up trusts that set certain limits on distributions. I think they charge a lot to "manage" the funds. Of course, the only thing they do is prepare quarterly/yearly reports and eventually distribute funds. I don't think they really "manage" anything. Our kids had a trust from their grandparents. It didn't kick in until 21. The management (trust) company charged 4% of funds invested. So they took virtually all of any growth of the funds they invested in.

You gotta find someone you trust to do all of this. Best of luck!

 

[RetiredHappy]

I have a LTCI that pays $9K a month currently, and grows at 3% per year. I am not interested in moving into a CCRC. My son is able to manage his day-to-day finances and earns enough to support himelf currently. He also has a brokerage account which we jointly own (his money) and I will continue to grow it. When I pass, if he chooses not to work or unable to obtain a job, he will have enough to live on by drawing on dividends alone from my brokerage account. If I pass before my term annuity finishes paying me, he gets another $45K a year from the annuity. I am not worried that he will squander the money because he is very frugal. Money is not an issue here. I have not included the IRA and he will have 10 years to drain it. He is plenty intelligent, including having a Bachelor degree in Accounting.

Before we moved into our current Single Family home 2 years ago, we lived in a 3000 sq ft penthouse single-level condo with a to-die-for view. We owned it for 7 years, lived there for 5 years (we were still living in CA during the first 2 years of buying the home) before we got tired of it and decided that we much prefer a SFH. So, we are not going back. The condo is an all steel construction and very quiet so it was not an issue of sharing walls. We just prefer to have our own yard and pool to enjoy.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Every time my wife and I get on the airplane for a trip, we worry about our son. If we both die unexpectedly, he will have enough money to last for his life. What we worry about is that he doesn't pay any attention to his money and he might lose it soon if we are not take care of his stuffs.

I update a letter in a sealed envelope every year and leave it in his drawer when I see him on his birthday. It has very specific instructions as to what we own and what to do about them. He has met our trust attorney and knows to contact her to help him with the estate. My main concern is the home and hence I plan to sell it to move closer to him if/when my husband passes before me.

 

[Koolau]

I update a letter in a sealed envelope every year and leave it in his drawer when I see him on his birthday. It has very specific instructions as to what we own and what to do about them. He has met our trust attorney and knows to contact her to help him with the estate. My main concern is the home and hence I plan to sell it to move closer to him if/when my husband passes before me.

I'm planning a note book that will include all our finical info (account numbers, etc.) phone numbers for Vanguard and a couple of other places, etc. I'll review it with her (heh, heh, hopefully before I die.) Then she'll know who to call and who to send death certs. to. She can establish her full ownership based on being the beneficiary of every account I own. I think it will be relatively smooth - I hope so.