Plumbers: Every one I know hates them because ...

[RetireAge50]

I don’t really hate them because I barely know them. I think I’ve had maybe 4 plumbing issues in 30 years.

 

[Gumby]

I don't hate plumbers, or any other craftsman for that matter. But I do wonder how any of them stay in business around here. They don't return calls, don't show up when they say they will, and don't finish the work expeditiously. It has become such a hassle to find a plumber, electrician, carpenter, painter etc. that I just do most things myself. A shame, really, since I'm willing to pay well for good work.

 

[travelover]

I don't hate plumbers, or any other craftsman for that matter. But I do wonder how any of them stay in business around here. They don't return calls, don't show up when they say they will, and don't finish the work expeditiously. It has become such a hassle to find a plumber, electrician, carpenter, painter etc. that I just do most things myself. A shame, really, since I'm willing to pay well for good work.

My experience, too. I am really only willing to pay for back breaking work like roofing and even then, I probably got ripped off.

 

[pb4uski]

We use the same plumbers that did the domestic water and heating for our home. They are good but a bit expensive.

 

[Cobra9777]

I use 4 different plumbers, depending on the job:

1. Me (DIY enthusiast)... fix a toilet, change a toilet, fix small leaks and clogs, install new faucets/sinks/drains, install new garbage disposal, repair sprinklers, etc.
2. Very small company (2 trucks, 1 master plumber/owner, low prices)... repair shower valve, clear sewer line between house and street.
3. Medium size company (6 trucks, 2 master plumbers, more experienced helpers, higher prices)... new water heater, gas line repairs.
4. Large company (20+ trucks, several master plumbers/supervisors, large staff, very high prices)... major plumbing repairs, remodel, new sewer line.

I will try to tackle most plumbing jobs myself before calling. The very small company (#2) charges $90/hr plus parts at cost+20%. I use them for small jobs where I just don't have the right tools, like the tool to pull a shower valve cartridge. Also use them to snake the sewer line every 2-3 years when the old cast iron collects some debris, usually around the holidays.

The medium size company (#3) is able to handle slightly larger jobs more cost effectively, like installing a new water heater. I also trust them more for things like gas line repairs.

For really large jobs, we use the more commercial type company (#4). They have the resources to get it done fast and correctly. We used them at our old house to replace the sewer line to the street. And we used them recently at this house to replace all the leaky cast iron waste/drain pipes coming from our two upstairs baths. They're not cheap, but I trust them to get it done right and in a timely manner.

 

[audreyh1]

Had reasonably good luck with local plumbers.

In our area we generally call the companies used by the construction in our development.

At my Dad’s house in a small town we get recommendations from neighbors.

 

[brett]

We have renovated a few homes over the years. Plumbers have been fine.

Absolute worst.....drywallers. Never, ever turned up when they said they would. In our experience a totally unreliable bunch.

 

[gerntz]

My BIL is a nice guy. He's the guardian of his quadriplegic stepdaughter shot 4X my her wacko husband.

 

[Ronstar]

I've lived 25 years 2 doors down from a plumber. I used him several times. Great guy. Great plumber. He has since retired. His son and son in law now run the business. Didn't trust the kids at first, but now I have them do whatever plumbing that I don't want to do or can't do.

 

[RobbieB]

I don't know any plumbers except me.

And the Home Depot guy that put the water saver toilet in. The City rebate paid for him too -

 

[427Vette]

I don't hate plumbers, or any other craftsman for that matter. But I do wonder how any of them stay in business around here. They don't return calls, don't show up when they say they will, and don't finish the work expeditiously. It has become such a hassle to find a plumber, electrician, carpenter, painter etc. that I just do most things myself. A shame, really, since I'm willing to pay well for good work.

I think this is a direct result of not enough trades people for the job. All of my contractor friends along with myself have been operating at our labor capacities for years. There are simply no skilled tradesmen to hire. I can only assume it is the same way all over the country. I am sure that the contractors that you contacted didn't want to ignore you it's the simple fact that there isn't time to service every single call that comes in. I have tried changing my message saying that we are booked up for several months and unless you have a current project with us or you are a former customer to not bother leaving a message as we won't have time to call you back. Then I apologize and leave several other numbers for them to call. Every day I come to the shop there will be a boat load of messages of people waiting for a response.

I think it gets forgotten by the general public that most times you are calling a smaller outfit. That person on the other end of the phone has more hats to wear then you can imagine. Unless you have been self employed you will never understand. Again, there isn't enough hours in a day to chase down every call. Of course we all have the option of hiring more office and clerical staff but that raises overhead and also complicates issues even further with all of the needs of employees.

It often comes up in threads like this on how tradesmen are flat out charging to much. I am curious to know what this is based on. Everything is expensive now days. I don't think it should cost $125.00 to fill my work van up with diesel fuel but it does. I don't think a couple bags of groceries should cost $100.00 but it does. I feel ripped off when I go to a doctor visit for a few minutes and get a $300.00 bill. Why is any of that different? Our labor rate hasn't changed in several years but everything else keeps going up. Yet I see references to the fact that we are all charging to much. I have seen posts here about the fantastic benefits that some members received. Its startling, paid vehicle expenses, expense accounts, retiree health care, employee health care, juicy pensions etc. These are all things contractors also need to either pay for indirectly or provide much like your employers either did or do provide. It seems like most people want to make the big bucks but nobody wants to pay anyone a living wage.

 

[Gumby]

I understand and agree with everything you say. However, in the situation you describe, it would seem logical for tradesmen to raise their prices. There will be fewer customers of course. But you will be able to serve them properly, and they will be the ones willing to pay a decent rate for the work.

I really am willing to pay top dollar to reliable people who do good work. So it is baffling to me that they seem not to want to take my money.

 

[MichaelB]

I understand and agree with everything you say. However, in the situation you describe, it would seem logical for tradesmen to raise their prices. There will be fewer customers of course. But you will be able to serve them properly, and they will be the ones willing to pay a decent rate for the work.

I really am willing to pay top dollar to reliable people who do good work. So it is baffling to me that they seem not to want to take my money.

Isn’t this one of the factors that leads to half of all small businesses failing within 5 years? Strong technical skills but deficient business management.

 

[euro]

Thanks for the link. Very interesting that PD meters probably have a magnet in them. That probably means I can use a magnet to interfere with their measuring.
.

Why would you ever have a need to "interfere with their measuring?"

 

[427Vette]

I understand and agree with everything you say. However, in the situation you describe, it would seem logical for tradesmen to raise their prices. There will be fewer customers of course. But you will be able to serve them properly, and they will be the ones willing to pay a decent rate for the work.

I really am willing to pay top dollar to reliable people who do good work. So it is baffling to me that they seem not to want to take my money.

It isn't that easy. There are still competitors of mine that are charging 30% less then we do. There are not many days that go by where someone doesn't complain about the cost of our services. The concern that I have with raising our prices is that if our regular customers whom we rely on and religiously hire us all of the sudden get startled by a bill then start shopping around for someone else. Your idea would certainly reduce the amount of calls and our income levels would remain the same in the short term but to successfully maintain a business for the long term you just simply cannot do that.

One thing you learn being in business and talking to many people every day is how to read people very well. I firmly believe that how you communicate with a contractor plays a part on if you get a call back. If you were to say like you said above that you are willing to pay top dollar if you can provide great service and clean up after yourself in your first conversation or the message that you leave you would certainly get someone to respond immediately. However it doesn't usually go like this. A typical customer now calls and says that they have been watching YouTube, researching on line and of course talked to several people who are truly experts like their dad and neighbors. They have it all figured out and this is going to be super easy and shouldn't hardly cost anything at all. Who in their right mind would call that person back when you have low maintenance customers to service instead. You are truly one in a million if you are willing to pay top dollar for good service. It seems that generally among most people and even on this board is that people are fine with spending money as long as it's really cheap, doesn't cost to much and they can save a little.

 

[zedd]

Hate the sin, not the sinner.


I can DO plumbing I'm just no good at it.


Let's see plumbers, hired a plumber to do the rough in of our Pacific Northwest home. He came highly recommended. Somehow he managed to get into a fist fight with our electrician. Fired the plumber on the spot. Paid him for work and material up to that point. He sued us for the finishing work! Replacement plumber did a great job but charged a premium to take on the job on short notice.


New locale, new/old house. Been using a guy who I heard about from a friend of a friend. He does a great job, timely and efficient. He always arrives in a brand spanking new truck.

 

[ERD50]

It isn't that easy. There are still competitors of mine that are charging 30% less then we do.

... A typical customer now calls and says that they have been watching YouTube, researching on line and of course talked to several people who are truly experts like their dad and neighbors. They have it all figured out and this is going to be super easy and shouldn't hardly cost anything at all. Who in their right mind would call that person back when you have low maintenance customers to service instead. You are truly one in a million if you are willing to pay top dollar for good service. It seems that generally among most people and even on this board is that people are fine with spending money as long as it's really cheap, doesn't cost to much and they can save a little.

I'm pretty much in alignment with Gumby's comments/observations, and it's good to hear from the other side (often, we don't know what we don't know).

Assuming the "one in a million" was a bit of hyperbole, sure, I'd accept that the majority are basing on price mostly. But some of that comes from not being able to really judge if the trades person is good or not. It's hard to tell for most people, since they don't know how to do the job themselves. In my case, I get suspicious if a price is too low - are they skimping, will they be around in 5 years if I need them?

In my case, I'm fairly knowledgeable about cars, enough so that I have a pretty good idea if my independent mechanic is giving me a straight scoop, or is trying to sell me stuff I don't need, and I might be able to tell if he did a quality job or not (but likely not, most of the job is hidden, but I might pick up on sloppy work).

Going by references isn't much help, since my friends and neighbors often don't know what to look for. For example, friends of ours who are almost too nice, and tend to look positively on almost everyone, were suspicious that the local well guy ripped them off. To them it didn't make sense that two parts of their well system would go bad at the same time. It seemed a little odd to me until they explained:

They needed a new well pump and a new pressure tank. Bingo - when your pressure tank goes bad, your well pump turns on/off every time you open/close a faucet, or flush a toilet, or any other draw. The short on/off cycle will ruin the pump in short order. A working pressure tank stores enough water under pressure so the pump runs for a minimum of a 1 minute cycle. He would have been screwing them if he didn't replace both!

I understand a trades person needs to charge to cover their overhead, liability, lots of things we don't see. I guess I should have no problem with trades people, since I don't begrudge them that. But maybe because I do try to educate myself, they get concerned that I'm going to be a tough customer, rather than a compliant one? I dunno.

But I've got a good relationship with a few, so I guess it works out, once you understand each other. But as you say, you need to get new customers, and that's hard if you are 30% higher, and the new customer doesn't know you.

But with a shortage of good trades people, it seems there should be a good answer to this. But we can say that about a lot of things, right?

-ERD50

 

[427Vette]

Ironically I just got a call from a customer with a situation that fits this thread nicely. He called and said that he wanted me to come out and give him a price on fixing the power out to his shed. He didn't know anything about why it quit working or how it worked in the first place. I explained to him that I would have to come out and spend some time diagnosing why it doesn't work then go back and put together an estimate which could take an hour and it still may be a guess if the underground wires are broke. I tried to educate him that this was more of a service call type of job rather then something you put out for competitive bids. I told him to find an electrician that he really trust and have him come do the job by the hour. He then said that he had been calling people all week and I was the only one that he had actually talked with. He like many others is under the impression that he absolutely must get several bids for around a $200-$400 job. I am certainly not going to go over there and spend possibly a half of a day educating him on how to fix his problem. After all that is what we get paid to do. Sadly I am guessing no one else will call him back either.

He is probably sitting around griping to his buddies on how he can't get anyone to come out or call him back.

 

[LOL!]

And an update by me: Today the 811 guy came out and marked the underground electric service to the street light: "I didn't get a good read on it, but it is exactly where your leak is, so be careful digging."

I started digging and found my neighbor's water line almost immediately on my property and going back in the direction towards where I suspect my water line is. That made me very very happy as I will finish digging tomorrow since I am almost certain I am within a foot of the leak. I should have it repaired before afternoon thunderstorms.

So the plumbers who refused to dig saved me at least $500 if not $1,000. I'll let them know. And I can tell my neighbor exactly where their water line is for future reference.

 

[Bamaman]

Plumbing is not rocket science, and most jobs are simple.

I'm astonished that so few people pay so much for a plumber to disassemble a bathroom drain to clean out a trap--a 5 minute job that needs doing 2x per year.

I did have one come out last week to RotoRoot a drain that had washing machine lint slowing down the flow of gray water. It took them 30 minutes and cost $80 to get them to come 18 miles to the house. They didn't make any money on that call.

 

[Winemaker]

I have done all my own plumbing work in my house and in my rentals for over 40 years; I must admit that I worked in a hardware store for 3 years in high school and 4 years in college. DD was pretty good mechanic so i have his skill set.

Before DMIL passed, she wanted a "higher commode" to facilitate getting on and off. I picked out a model and said I'd buy it and get to it by the weekend. The "elder" commode was $150 at HD or Lowe's. DMIL would not hear of it, she called a local plumber and paid $900 for a new commode that was only 3/4" higher. She could have gotten that much height with a foamy toilet seat.

This summer was the first time I ever used a plumber. In the basement of my 2 story rental home, my cast iron stack pipe had cracked ner the floor and needed replaced. I figured I could do it but was unsure of the stability of the 30' of stack 4" cast iron above it to the roof. I got 2 estimates, $825 and $425, but I had to break the concrete floor, dig out and expose the pipe for their installer for both estimates. I obviously went with the $425 plumber. It was repaired/replaced uneventful, it was good insurance for not having 30' of nasty cast iron pipe come down on my head and filling the basement up with broken pieces.

 

[rpguy4]

A number of years ago, I was down in our basement where our water line comes into the house. I faintly heard water running near the shutoff valve, and went upstairs to see if my DW was doing laundry or running water somewhere. Nope. We were not running water anywhere in the house. Contacted my BIL who is a plumber, he recommended that since I could hear the water running in the basement, that the leak was probably on the outside, where the water line comes in. Sure enough, dug down, about 3-4 feet, and found the leak. According to my BIL - 9/10 the leaks occur where the line comes into the house. It was a very slow leak, but enough that it sounded as though someone was running water in the house. Saved us a bunch of money. The water line comes in from the street, and runs under our driveway. Very lucky !

 

[pb4uski]

....I'm astonished that so few people pay so much for a plumber to disassemble a bathroom drain to clean out a trap--a 5 minute job that needs doing 2x per year. ...

2x per year? The only time that I clean traps are they they plug enough so water flow slows.... perhaps 2x in 40 years for me!

I used to pull and drain traps for our seasonal properties to empty water out before putting in RV antifreeze but I don't even do that now... just pour a cup or so of RV antifreeze down the drain.

 

[Andre1969]

I just had to have a plumber out to my old house on Tuesday. I had shut off the water over the winter but didn't drain the pipes properly, so there was a couple of bursts. And, every time he fixed one leak he'd turn the water on and another one would pop out...the joys of old plumbing, I guess. To be fair, some of these were pinhole leaks that had probably been there for years.

I've used this plumbing company in the past and always had good luck with them. My next door neighbor recommended them to me awhile back, as she's used them for ages.

However, they are a somewhat small outfit. I don't know if they'd be equipped to handle the main pipe that runs from the street to the house. I have a feeling that might require more of a specialist, but I'm not sure.

**Edit: Also, just wanted to mention, when I called this particular plumber, I did have to leave a voicemail, but he called me back within the hour. Also showed up exactly when he said he would. And, even though the job ended up being a lot worse than originally thought (I only knew of one leak, which was a really bad one close to the shutoff valve, but I think he ended up fixing 7 or 8), he still finished fairly quickly, and the price was reasonable. So, the good ones are out there!

 

[street]

I don't hate plumbers, or any other craftsman for that matter. But I do wonder how any of them stay in business around here. They don't return calls, don't show up when they say they will, and don't finish the work expeditiously. It has become such a hassle to find a plumber, electrician, carpenter, painter etc. that I just do most things myself. A shame, really, since I'm willing to pay well for good work.

My same experience.