POLL: How do you rank yourself as an investor?

[robertfromtx]

I'm a former professional futures trader. I worked for decades in banking. I have degrees in Economics and Computer Science. I started investing in high school.

I voted "Average and not likely to change".

I generally get macro trends about right, yet its still so hard to act correctly, at the right time, on that knowledge - so I just stick to a fixed stock/bond allocation (w/ index funds) and rebalance occasionally.

 

[Rustic23]

I think it depends.

Compared to the average person, I think I am above average, having FIREd at 49.

Compared to this forum, I'm average at best.

+1 The scope of the fish bowl needed to be defined.

 

[WhenIsItTime]

I’m way above average. I seem to have been born financially savvy. Parents had nothing to do with it. I was adopted and they were not financial role models. I’ve just always valued my money.

Do you mind telling us more? What transactions results in way above average returns? What lead you to those decisions?

 

[Joylush]

Do you mind telling us more? What transactions results in way above average returns? What lead you to those decisions?

I’m not talking about individual stock picking, more-so financial management in general. Things like opening an IRA at age 22 when they first became available, to planning for my retirement from the start by buying investment properties at age 25, holding them for 30 plus years, never paying a cent of credit card interest, car loan interest etc…only mortgage interest. Started with low cost mutual funds, then switched and joined the index ETF bandwagon when they became available. I did get lucky with my Apple stock as well buying it a long time ago and it’s up over a million dollars (the shares I haven’t sold.). Did quite well with stocks like Ebay and Amazon as well because guess I just recognized their potential as a very early user of them, always looking for a bargain. I was talking about that kind of thing. I’m more conservative now and keep 1/3 of my portfolio in cash now because there is no way I could ever spend it all anyway.

 

[connor77]

Ok, then I'm below average, I tinkered with REITs. I lost on one and still hold 3 for dividend gain. and I wrongly have them in tax deferred accounts.
So many thinks to get right to maximize gains, it's good you don't have to win.

Please help me understand why it's undesirable to have dividend payers in tax deferred accounts. I'm asking because my Vanguard advisor suggested that my IRA have mostly dividend payers in it. In my brokerage account she suggested ETF's like VTI for example.

 

[Gumby]

If your dividends are "qualified dividends"* then you pay the same rate for them as you do for capital gains if, but only if, they are held in taxable accounts. If they are held in tax deferred accounts such as a tIRA, they will, when withdrawn, be considered and taxed as ordinary income.

* https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/what-are-qualified-dividends

 

[2017ish]

Above average at this point. Index, set, and forget until rebalancing time. (actually, I download quotes each market day, but don't do anything about them....)

Luckier than hell in my individual stock investing in the 90's and oughts....

 

[DrRoy]

Above avg from experience, not necessarily outcome.

 

[pjigar]

Q to who voted above average: Do you know your long term (over a decade or two) CAGR from your investment portfolio?

Most people I have met in real life have NO IDEA about CAGR of their portfolio but they think their returns are better than the market returns. I don't understand that logic, how do you know if you are better without an objective measure?

 

[Time2]

If your dividends are "qualified dividends"* then you pay the same rate for them as you do for capital gains if, but only if, they are held in taxable accounts. If they are held in tax deferred accounts such as a tIRA, they will, when withdrawn, be considered and taxed as ordinary income.

* https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/what-are-qualified-dividends

Gumby said it.

Also note, if you keep your AGI income below $83,350, you pay $0 tax on dividends and capital gains.

 

[connor77]

Gumby said it.

Also note, if you keep your AGI income below $83,350, you pay $0 tax on dividends and capital gains.

Thank you both!



Sorry for the thread drift.

 

[Joylush]

I don't think of myself as an investor, though I suppose I am. I put my money into VTSAX and VBTLX years ago and have left it there. It took almost no skill or investing acumen at all. It doesn't even take any guts to leave it there when the market is down, because I'm a bit of a dope and don't react to down-markets.

I guess I will vote myself as being average, or perhaps even a bit below average. I'll have a ham and cheese sandwich and a cuppa tea and think about it.

Update - I voted below average. If more people realized how ridiculously easy this buying and holding of index funds is, they'd wonder why they aren't doing it too.

Honestly just doing that alone makes you above average.

 

[6miths]

Welcome to Lake Wobegon.

 

[Koolau]

Welcome to Lake Wobegon.

Ain't it the truth!

t would seem most of us (me excluded) consider ourselves above average - just like Lake Wobegon. I'm honestly surprised by the magnitude by which we are above average. Many of us (like me) came to the concept of FIRE pretty late in our investing lives, so not only are we above average - we are fast learners as well. Well done!

 

[Imackenzie]

Just terrible cause I know too much

I spent 30 years as a reporter and editor covering financial services and the more I learned the more I realized that the "experts" were full of it. Modern Portfolio Theory? A joke, seriously, at least from an individual investor perspective. The "geniuses" were guys who went with one theory at the right time and when times changed they tanked. Money managers you are likely to have various fetishes and faiths they learned at ML or somehwere like it about money but their track records over time, with survivor bias removed, are awful. So what to do? I have generally been paralyzed which may or may not be worse than what would have happened if I listened to them! So either go Bogle and hope America continues to prosper and the tide lifts you all, or go all-in conservative and just save way more money, IMHO.

 

[Retired2016]

Average and not likely to change. I invest in index funds and forget about it (other than checking the market daily). Don’t have the mental capacity to learn something else. Over $2mm NW, retired, and have a surplus after SS and a pension.

 

[ArmchairMillionaire]

I think most people are broke and clueless so I rated myself above average. But I think that’s a pretty low bar.

Same here. I consider myself above average if I compare myself to the broke and clueless people I w*rk with. On this site, with all the wise people here, I would consider myself lucky to be average. I'm still following "The Armchair Millionaire™" strategy (with the addition of bond funds after I turned 50) which actually embraces mediocrity and it is working for me. Back when I was 30 I set a goal of having $1M in savings & investments by the time I turned 50. I was pleased to hit the $1M mark soon after I turned 49 so I'm happy enough with mediocrity.

 

[RobLJ]

I'm a Lake Wobegon investor, "“where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average.” I pretty much have tracked a 60-40 portfolio, since 2010. (And that has worked fine.)

 

[hotwired]

Secret

Buying equities = Terrible

Buying fixed income = Genius

I'm obsessed with fixed income now that we have actual interest rates. If you're truly even half a genius, I'd like to learn from you

 

[SunGuy]

I spent 30 years as a reporter and editor covering financial services and the more I learned the more I realized that the "experts" were full of it. Modern Portfolio Theory? A joke, seriously, at least from an individual investor perspective. The "geniuses" were guys who went with one theory at the right time and when times changed they tanked. Money managers you are likely to have various fetishes and faiths they learned at ML or somehwere like it about money but their track records over time, with survivor bias removed, are awful. So what to do? I have generally been paralyzed which may or may not be worse than what would have happened if I listened to them! So either go Bogle and hope America continues to prosper and the tide lifts you all, or go all-in conservative and just save way more money, IMHO.

Sorry, going to have to respectfully disagree, the people able to generate alpha can do it in any market conditions, they just may have to overcome the market prevailing headwinds that hold back the market in bad quarters/years.

Of course if you are talking to people pretending to be good traders, that is one thing.
But the real traders are just like any other top 1% of skills/sports.
The financial industry is fraught with fraud. Loads of wealthy people are just scammers and criminals, look at Bernie Madoff/Ken Griffin etc. versus the real traders like Warren Buffett/Howard Marks/Mohnish Pabrai.

With how I trade my portfolios, at least for individual stocks, if they are short term trades I want at a minimum 25% ROI.

When I was trading forex, due to the leverage available, I could trade blocks and leverage up to 50:1. As an example I could find a trade with one currency pair and put in say maybe an initial $500, and that is leveraged up to $25k.

I could make many multiples of that a month in the right conditions per block. A good month would be for any given block of $500, it would make me at least $2k.

 

[1242Vintage]

Rate myself as Above Average.

Am an engineer but spent the majority of my career figuring out how to finance an annual multi-billion dollar portfolio of public works infrastructure projects. Involved a deep understanding and close eye on economic trends, inflation, bond yields and general market trends and conditions.

Mid-way through my career I picked up an MBA in finance.

Transferred those skills to my own portfolio and have grown it significantly over the years. Has been a good, rewarding and fun ride.

 

[WhenIsItTime]

I’m not talking about individual stock picking, more-so financial management in general. Things like opening an IRA at age 22 when they first became available, to planning for my retirement from the start by buying investment properties at age 25, holding them for 30 plus years, never paying a cent of credit card interest, car loan interest etc…only mortgage interest. Started with low cost mutual funds, then switched and joined the index ETF bandwagon when they became available. I did get lucky with my Apple stock as well buying it a long time ago and it’s up over a million dollars (the shares I haven’t sold.). Did quite well with stocks like Ebay and Amazon as well because guess I just recognized their potential as a very early user of them, always looking for a bargain. I was talking about that kind of thing. I’m more conservative now and keep 1/3 of my portfolio in cash now because there is no way I could ever spend it all anyway.

I'm slow to reply, but this answer is excellent. Except for maybe a few stock pics that were openly popular, your path is available to many. Good on you for winning the game!

 

[Koolau]

I spent 30 years as a reporter and editor covering financial services and the more I learned the more I realized that the "experts" were full of it. Modern Portfolio Theory? A joke, seriously, at least from an individual investor perspective. The "geniuses" were guys who went with one theory at the right time and when times changed they tanked. Money managers you are likely to have various fetishes and faiths they learned at ML or somehwere like it about money but their track records over time, with survivor bias removed, are awful. So what to do? I have generally been paralyzed which may or may not be worse than what would have happened if I listened to them! So either go Bogle and hope America continues to prosper and the tide lifts you all, or go all-in conservative and just save way more money, IMHO.

I go for "average" on everything - IOW diversification. It's no way to get rich quick but at least you're less likely to lose it all. I have a reasonably broad indexed stock/bond portfolio with a good chunk of fixed, a little PM for (generally) negative correlation to everything else and stay below 4% WDR. Nothing fancy and nothing exotic. Has been w*rking for 18 years. YMMV

 

[DallasGuy]

Does investing in CD's count? Over the years I've been pretty good at finding decent rates and locking them in when I could. Would I have done better in the market? Most likely. But I like not having the extra stress of investing in stocks. For many people that's not an issue, but for me it is. But I've done ok and can live off of my savings with no problem at all....and my net worth continues to go up each year. What more does a person need?

 

[Koolau]

Does investing in CD's count? Over the years I've been pretty good at finding decent rates and locking them in when I could. Would I have done better in the market? Most likely. But I like not having the extra stress of investing in stocks. For many people that's not an issue, but for me it is. But I've done ok and can live off of my savings with no problem at all....and my net worth continues to go up each year. What more does a person need?

I agree about "individual" stocks, but how about index funds? Those are pretty simple and, though not fool-proof, considered pretty safe over the long run - keeping your particular Asset Allocation. The so-called "Couch Potato" AA is really simple. It's more or less set and forget except maybe yearly rebalancing. I'm not trying to talk you into anything but holding at least some stock is generally more effective in the long run. It's true that fixed income stuff is "nice" right now, but I wouldn't give up on stocks - and I have a pretty low equity position in my AA. As always, YMMV.