Questions about roof replacement and insurance

[Exchme]

We had sketchy looking roofing company reps come by saying that with the recent hail storm, we no doubt have roof damage, so just let them up on the roof and they will get it approved with the insurance company.

I told them we didn't have any hail, (we have an old roof so were very attentive, hoping for some) so see you later and have a nice day.

A few minutes later, back they come to tell me that the insurance company (they don't know who we have) had reports of hail in our area and they were sure they could make it happen!

Imagine starting a transaction with an attempt to commit fraud on the insurance company, is there any doubt they would try to pull something over on us too?

 

[Another Reader]

When I was first buying rentals in Arizona, I bought a house on a cul de sac. The comp shingle roof was not new, but was not in need of replacement. A couple of years later, there was a localized hail and wind event, almost like a mini tornado, and the other owners on the cul de sac replaced their roofs. Not being familiar with the level of damage that could be caused by these storms, I called the insurance company and asked them to inspect the roof. Turned out, a lot of nails were loosened and some shingles were torn. Water had started to seep in because there were problems with loosened underlayment. They replaced the roof and I paid the deductible.

The key is that I called the insurance company, told them about the storm, which is fairly common there, and let them decide. They realized not replacing the roof would lead to even more damage and decided to replace it.

 

[ncbill]

+1

Now for some lighter roof tales:

Last roof leak I had was caused by...a squirrel.

Sucker had chewed through the OSB/plywood/whatever to get into my attic.

Roofer our HOA uses waited until it was a nice, sunny day so hopefully Mr. Squirrel had gone outside & then used metal mesh & caulk to close the hole.

Next roof replacement I got to see the roofers cut a piece to replace that chewed-up (chewed-on?) section.

The 1920s house where i lived when young had a slate roof which apparently requires a steep pitch to properly shed rain.

And those slates were as slick as greased glass with any moisture, even the morning dew, so it was tough to find people willing to work on it.

But work was needed, regularly, since the original nails were iron which corroded over the decades, so on a regular basis a slate would slide free and fall three stories to shatter on the ground below.

So most of the original roof has probably been replaced by now, though not by any of the homeowners' choice.

 

[pb4uski]

... The thread however, started off with trying to get a roof based on contractor shenanigans or normal wear and tear outside of damaging weather, fire, etc.

Hi all,

I own a house with, unsurprisingly, a roof.

The house and roof are both 18 years old. The roof is standard 3-tab 20-year asphalt shingles.

I have home insurance through USAA. I have accurately informed them of the age and type of roof I have on my home. I assume they take that information into account when setting my premium.

The roof is largely intact, but the shingles themselves are getting increasingly brittle and a number of individual shingle tabs have broken off in recent windy situations. I am not yet at the point of worrying about leaks, but I can tell the clock is ticking for me to do something.

I have had several roofing companies tell me they can replace my roof for just my deductible, and that they would work with my insurance company inspector to make that happen. There have been several data points of this ilk, but all were from companies that seemed of questionable repute.

The most recent roofing company I spoke with, who seemed reputable, said pretty much the opposite: that I should work with my insurance company myself, for them to do so is a conflict of interest, and that getting insurance to cover a roof replacement in my situation never happens.

I really don't know what to believe, although I guess a good reputation should probably outweigh multiple data points.

Questions:

1. Is my USAA homeowner insurance premium intended to cover both unexpected roof replacements (such as a hail storm on a 1 year old roof) and expected roof replacements (such as my 18 year old roof that has just worn out)? Or just the unexpected ones?

2. Am I giving away anything by calling USAA and discussing the situation with them? If so, what am I giving away?

3. If USAA will pay for a new roof, are they going to increase my premium because I am no longer "claims free"? (I've had homeowner's with them on multiple properties off and on for 30 years with zero claims.)

Basically, I need to know between the two paths of (A) going through insurance where I pay just my deductible, or (B) paying out of pocket where I pay the whole thing, or (C) some path in the middle. Obviously this might affect the roof product I choose and how price sensitive I am.

The reputable company gave me a quote of $12K, FWIW.

Thanks.

I didn't read the OP as trying to get a roof based on contractor shenanigans at all. In fact, the opposite.

The OP talked with some companies that told him that they could replace the roof for just his deductible but was uncomfortable with them and that seemed of questionable repute. The roofing comany that said getting insurance to cover a roof replacement in my situation never happens was characterized as reputable.

Then the OP just asked some questions to understand how this stuff works in practice and where the boundaries are.

 

[d.davis]

We had hail, half dollar size and larger, on our 3 tab 15yo roof. Called the insurance company and they denied the claim. Their inspector said there was no hail damage.
Since the roof was leaking after the hail (ceiling water damage) I got three estimates assuming I was buying a new roof. Two of the roofers said my insurance company should be paying for it because of hail damage. I asked them to show me. The first one drew lines 10ft x 10ft then began circling the hail impact points on the west side. The second company did the same on the east side.
I called my insurance company with my new data points and they sent out a different inspector who admitted the hail claim was valid as he walked around the chalked areas.

Quite disgusted with my insurance company after that. Been with them over 30 years and that was our only claim. They are not the company they were 30 years ago.

 

[REWahoo]

Quite disgusted with my insurance company after that. Been with them over 30 years and that was our only claim. They are not the company they were 30 years ago.

I really expected that last line to read, "They are no longer my insurance company."

 

[jazz4cash]

We have used a local company that offers “roof tune-ups” for $150-200. They inspect, re-nail shingles, reseal flashing, etc with before and after pics. We called them out when our roof was about 15 and 18 yrs old. At 18 yrs they recommended replacement of the rubber boots on the plumbing vents which cost $75 extra. They said our roof still had a few years of life but we got hail damage 2 years later. There was never a hard sell. In fact I was not even aware they did roof replacement and they were booked solid when we had the hail damage.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

We have used a local company that offers “roof tune-ups” for $150-200. They inspect, re-nail shingles, reseal flashing, etc with before and after pics. We called them out when our roof was about 15 and 18 yrs old. At 18 yrs they recommended replacement of the rubber boots on the plumbing vents which cost $75 extra. They said our roof still had a few years of life but we got hail damage 2 years later. There was never a hard sell. In fact I was not even aware they did roof replacement and they were booked solid when we had the hail damage.

This seems like a great idea.
Not knowing anything about roofing except having paid for one once, it would seem that this would be a great way for a company to train newer employees.

 

[JoeWras]

Imagine starting a transaction with an attempt to commit fraud on the insurance company, is there any doubt they would try to pull something over on us too?

Exactly! That's how I felt and why I didn't go that route.

 

[JoeWras]

We had hail, half dollar size and larger, on our 3 tab 15yo roof. Called the insurance company and they denied the claim. Their inspector said there was no hail damage.
Since the roof was leaking after the hail (ceiling water damage) I got three estimates assuming I was buying a new roof. Two of the roofers said my insurance company should be paying for it because of hail damage. I asked them to show me. The first one drew lines 10ft x 10ft then began circling the hail impact points on the west side. The second company did the same on the east side.
I called my insurance company with my new data points and they sent out a different inspector who admitted the hail claim was valid as he walked around the chalked areas.

Quite disgusted with my insurance company after that. Been with them over 30 years and that was our only claim. They are not the company they were 30 years ago.

Half dollar size, now that can cause damage. That's a real hailstorm and worthy of a claim.

 

[Jeffman52]

I have had a roof put on that was worn out (about 5 years ago), so 12K does not sound very different from what we did.


As someone else said, flashing rules have changed but a quality installer is going to do that correctly.



If you live where it gets cold, make sure you get ice and water protector (Peel and stick) installed around the eaves and valleys.



Also have them check the ventilation. Over the years that has improved so much but also people have insulation blown in, and don't realize they blocked the venting. I had poor venting (due to the previous owner having sofit installed incorrectly blocking the vents) and ended up having to get solar blasters put in to correct it.



Lastly I have a fireplace and the water was coming down the roof and hitting it directly causing damage to the mortar. I had a "cricket" installed, which is basically a dormer that flows the water around your chimney.

 

[Texas Proud]

We had hail, half dollar size and larger, on our 3 tab 15yo roof. Called the insurance company and they denied the claim. Their inspector said there was no hail damage.
Since the roof was leaking after the hail (ceiling water damage) I got three estimates assuming I was buying a new roof. Two of the roofers said my insurance company should be paying for it because of hail damage. I asked them to show me. The first one drew lines 10ft x 10ft then began circling the hail impact points on the west side. The second company did the same on the east side.
I called my insurance company with my new data points and they sent out a different inspector who admitted the hail claim was valid as he walked around the chalked areas.

Quite disgusted with my insurance company after that. Been with them over 30 years and that was our only claim. They are not the company they were 30 years ago.

It is interesting that when we had hail the guy never got on the roof... he said he could see the damage from the driveway... I think the 3 cars riddled with dents caused by hail helped...

 

[Sunset]

It is interesting that when we had hail the guy never got on the roof... he said he could see the damage from the driveway... I think the 3 cars riddled with dents caused by hail helped...

So what about the cars ?

Does the auto insurance pay for that ? or for diminished value ? or do folks just ignore it ?

 

[aja8888]

So what about the cars ?

Does the auto insurance pay for that ? or for diminished value ? or do folks just ignore it ?

Auto insurance pays for fixing the damage under your comprehensive coverage. happened to us several years ago.

 

[scrinch]

Just had my 24-year-old composition shingle roof replaced last month. The lowest of four bids from reliable companies was $22k for our 2100 sqft home (plus garage and shop). There was no indication on the surface whatsoever of rot in the sheathing, but when the old roof was removed there were nine spots that required replacement. My BS meter started ringing a bit when they reported the rot, so I climbed up there to inspect the spots. Yep, nine spots, eight of them right around the edges, completely invisible before the roof was removed. The job was completed in 8 hours by 16 guys. It was fun to watch a crew that knew what it was doing work in such a coordinated way.

 

[Rianne]

Four pages in 2 days. Impressive. Goes to show roofs and insurance companies hold water or serious opinions

Our roof: Hale damage: corrupt inspector: good inspector: awesome roofer: new roof: grateful for our insurance company: glad I don't live in FL.

Edit: DB lives in Fort Lauderdale. 500-year flood may well become the norm.

 

[retire48in2018]

FYI - our insurance just changed to depreciation value for roof - starting year 1 - and amortized to some kind of benchmark.

We have 30 year roof, insurance considers it a 20 year for amortization. Our roof is 18 years old - so if terrible storm completely ruined it - we would get 10% of “original replacement value” - which is what was installed 18 years ago - not 10% of bids to meet current standards for 30 year roof.

We will change insurance companies-not just for this reason - but making this change in middle of term, along with other changes.

I am mentioning this to echo what other poster said - check your insurance policy.

 

[Texas Proud]

So what about the cars ?

Does the auto insurance pay for that ? or for diminished value ? or do folks just ignore it ?

Same insurance company... got 4 checks written to me at the time... he said if anything cost more than what he gave to give him a call..

 

[Music Lover]

We have used a local company that offers “roof tune-ups” for $150-200. They inspect, re-nail shingles, reseal flashing, etc.

It's probably not a bad idea every now and then if you have an older roof and don't want to or shouldn't go on roofs or climb ladders. It shouldn't be required at all if you have a new roof installed properly.

I check my roof myself every year, although I haven't since I put new shingles on 3 years ago.

 

[JoeWras]

It's probably not a bad idea every now and then if you have an older roof and don't want to or shouldn't go on roofs or climb ladders. It shouldn't be required at all if you have a new roof installed properly.

I check my roof myself every year, although I haven't since I put new shingles on 3 years ago.

Agree. Great service if you can find a reputable contractor.

The boots around plumbing penetrations are especially vulnerable to [-]tiny lentil sized hail [/-] regular sun exposure. A good service can fix you up through caulking or boot replacement or place-over. This will avoid problems before they happen which can morph into slow leaks that kill your sheathing/decking.

 

[H2ODude]

^^^ And this is why we are all paying higher homeowners insurance rates.

Why should a homeowner get a brand new roof at no cost for a 15 year old roof that is 60% to 75% through its normal useful life? The rest of us that buy homeowners insurance are all paying for that new roof, especially the 60-75% that should have been the owner's responsibility.

BTW, I'm sorry to be harsh and am trying as best I can not to single you out and understand why it was an unexpectedly pleasant experience for you... and good for you... but the fact that society tolerates such things is why we pay so much for homeowner's insurance and it annoys me.

You may not like the way the system works, but I've paid HOI for over 45 years and this was first claim. I've never read through the policies to know exactly what they specify, but an adjuster came out, examined the roof, and can only assume that within the terms specifically written in said policy that the damage I had (roofer and adjuster agreed fairly widespread hail dings). Have no idea when it happened but there was evidence of hail within specified time.

I was shocked there was no amortization for a roof that old, but the insurance company paid the full. Do I have some overly generous insurance company or an extraordinarily broad coverage? Have no idea. I do recall the roofer indicating that requirements for payment varied quite a lot between carriers. I'm reminded of the stupid insurance ads "pay for what you need!" I don't need such coverage and would not pay extra for it in all likelihood. My coverage is car/home/umbrella bundle at about $3k a year. I think the HO is about 1500 now with the higher deductible for $500k house. So I'd say I am unlikely to be buying deluxe insurance. I did cash the check. Reread your reply and not sure this is a society toleration thing. Policies are competitive and I really don't think a company would pay out if adjuster saw it did not meet coverage requirements.

 

[Involuntary Retiree]

^^^ And this is why we are all paying higher homeowners insurance rates.

Why should a homeowner get a brand new roof at no cost for a 15 year old roof that is 60% to 75% through its normal useful life? The rest of us that buy homeowners insurance are all paying for that new roof, especially the 60-75% that should have been the owner's responsibility.

BTW, I'm sorry to be harsh and am trying as best I can not to single you out and understand why it was an unexpectedly pleasant experience for you... and good for you... but the fact that society tolerates such things is why we pay so much for homeowner's insurance and it annoys me.

Because the insured contracted and paid for replacement cost coverage?



If the insurance company offers me replacement coverage on my roof for an added premium (it's always more expensive), and I agree to their offer and pay the additional premium, irreparable damage to a roof that occurs during the policy term means that I am contractually entitled to have my roof replaced with no depreciation for age/wear and tear. It is not fraud or any sort of malfeasance on the part of the insured to expect the insurer to live up to its bargain.


Just my thoughts.

 

[CardsFan]

Two experiences;

The first, about 25 years ago. Hail in the area, called the insurance co. Yep, they replaced everything, including a shed roof that really was already aged before the storm.

Second time, about 6 years ago, different place (condo/town home, and at that time the insurance was on the owner, it has since changed) same insurance company. There was a minor event. Neighbor called her Ins. Co. Yep, hail damage. She got a new roof. We called ours and they said NO. Same ins. co., and the roofs are connected. We replaced it anyway, as we knew it was over 20 years old.

Changed ins. co. after that. And now the HOA handles the roof ins.

FWIW, I was amazed at how fast the roofers were. One day with 4-5 guys.

Sheathing was extra, but reasonable, and they found one spot that needed it. A clear rot hole though, that corresponded with a dark spot in the garage ceiling.

 

[DougJohnson]

^^^ And this is why we are all paying higher homeowners insurance rates.

Why should a homeowner get a brand new roof at no cost for a 15 year old roof that is 60% to 75% through its normal useful life?....

Because the policy had replacement cost coverage? Mine does and I paid extra for it. It also covers the cost of replacing stuff damaged in a fire or other insured event. Otherwise, you will get the depreciated value. For clothes and lots of other stuff, that can be close to zero.

-- Doug

 

[Aerides]

Because the policy had replacement cost coverage? Mine does and I paid extra for it. It also covers the cost of replacing stuff damaged in a fire or other insured event. Otherwise, you will get the depreciated value. For clothes and lots of other stuff, that can be close to zero.

-- Doug

The key is an event, not wear and tear. Replacement doesn't cover you because your sofa got worn out, only if there is a storm/fire, etc.