Second Bivalent Booster?

[Gearhead Jim]

Curious, can you provide where you found that interesting piece of information.

"Getting covid offers no better protection than a shot".

Thanks.

I'd be interested in that also, because I've seen different news stories saying both that a booster is as good as previous infection, or not as good.

The answer seems to depend partially on how sick you got, and which version(s) are currently circulating.

 

[GenXguy]

Strange, Relatives and Friends who are fully "boosted" have caught Covid.
Nothing serious. Cold like symptoms.

Even mild cases can result in long COVID, which may not be immediately known. I've heard that keeping up to date on vaccinations reduces the chance of long COVID, which can go on for months or for the rest of your life.

 

[Badger]

We have had all 5 shots (Moderna) to date. I will get more as they are available and recommended. Never had a problem with any of them and didn't even feel the "poke". We have also always worn a mask (properly covering mouth AND nose) in public, social distanced, never gone to a theater (so much available on streaming TV) or eaten inside a restaurant (outside and distanced from others), avoided crowds, and not flown on an airplane (traveled by car for vacations). I don't understand what the big deal would be to properly protect my health. So far no Covid. We are too old to risk the infection. My wife just turned 76 today and I don't want to take the chance of losing her to Covid or subject her to long Covid with the time we have left.

Cheers!

 

[pacergal]

We've had all 5 recommended vaccines. Most likely, I see them as becoming more like annual flu shots, and will help prevent serious illness/hospitalization, but not necessarily prevent you from catching it.
Add in wearing a protective mask in crowded places now and in the future, and we are doing the most we can to prevent us from getting Covid, and it has helped with flu and regular colds, too.
As we get older the risk of pneumonia with flu like illnesses increases, so we don't mind.

 

[RetMD21]

Curious, can you provide where you found that interesting piece of information.

"Getting covid offers no better protection than a shot".

Thanks.

I have seen the same thing reported but I think it is hard to say for sure especially since it may well vary depending on the strain of Covid.

 

[Sojourner]

Does" natural immunity", you had Covid, last longer than vaccination

AFAIK, there is no definitive answer to this question. Like many aspects of COVID, it's being researched, debated, and discussed extensively among virologists, immunologists, and public health scientists around the world. I have heard that natural infection could confer some benefits that vaccination doesn't have, for example, having "front-line" antibodies in one's nasal passages that could help prevent a future infection. But I think no one really knows how long immunity lasts in any case, especially considering the rapid pace of SARS-CoV2 mutations we've been seeing over the past 18 months.

 

[MarieIG]

Due to the rapidly evolving mutations; conflicting information on the need/ efficacy/ benefit/risk analysis at this point; and my reactions to the prior - I'm in no rush . . .

 

[NomDeER]

Same for us. And unlike the first two doses and first two boosters that made us feel punky the next day, we had no reaction to it other than a slightly sore arm.

Same with me. I got my last booster two weeks before going on vacation. I didn't want to get sick while on vacation. I know people who have gotten COVID while on vacation, and it wasn't fun. Also, I know people with long COVID, and that really isn't fun. I have weird autoimmune issues, so would rather not take the risk. Also, because of sinus issues, it's hard for me to test effectively, and I would feel bad exposing others. I have no problem getting COVID booster shots. But, I'm also someone who gets a flu shot every fall, and the sore arm really doesn't bother me very much.

I would think it's hard to research natural immunity not only because of the type of COVID and time between original infection and subsequent exposure, but also because people are exposed to different amounts of the virus.

I seem to recall reading at some point that getting a booster after having had COVID gives more protection than just the booster, but don't know if that's still true with current strains.

I definitely know people who have had COVID more than once within a year, so the idea that having COVID will protect you for a year seems incorrect.

Last month, my niece was at what turned out to be a super spreader event. Lots of the infected had been infected within the last year. My niece had been infected about five months prior - more recently than some of her friends who were reinfected - and she did not get reinfected. But, that might partly be because, unlike most others, she wore a mask for part of the time she was exposed that day. Or, it could be that she had more antibodies because she had been sicker than others when she had COVID. Or, a combination of factors. None of them had boosters, so that was not the difference.

 

[Retired2021]

I appreciate this post. DW and I received are last booster 2/28/21 (shot number 4). Neither of us have had COVID. Always wear a mask when indoors in a large crowd. Also, still using Purell and washing hands frequently. Taking a plane to Florida for vacation in a couple weeks. I'm thinking about getting the booster this week. Kinda on the fence.

 

[RetMD21]

I would think it's hard to research natural immunity not only because of the type of COVID and time between original infection and subsequent exposure, but also because people are exposed to different amounts of the virus.

I think a definitive answer would have required a challenge study to give people Covid at a specified time and then study their rate of reinfection/hospitalization/death from a second infection as compared to a vaccinated group. Not really warranted or practical.

 

[intent]

I think the OP asks an excellent question and I'm a bit surprised more people aren't asking it and that there doesn't seem to be much information coming out of the CDC. As someone who has had all of my shots as soon as I could get them, it feels a bit like the public's general lack of interest in the virus/vaccine is creating a situation where the CDC has essentially given up on trying to actively inform those of us who do want to be vaccinated.

I received my bivalent booster in early September, so it's been more than 4 mos. I don't think I necessarily need another booster today, but I might benefit from one soon. Then again, who knows ... maybe I wouldn't benefit. Maybe another could actually be harmful.

I suppose maybe they just don't know. Whatever the answer, I'd like them to continue communicating with us and just let us know what they've learned and/or what they're suggesting.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Good post from "intent".

Not related, but we should stop thinking about the vaccines and boosters and masks and avoiding crowds and etc as binary- "x" makes us safe or unsafe.
Instead we should think of Covid as a dice game, and various things we do or don't do will load the dice in our favor or against us.

With vaccines and boosters, every time I've had to make a choice of do or don't, my only question is "If I get this additional shot, am I more likely to be alive a year from now or less likely?"

Other things like masks, are more nuanced. How much hassle am I willing to put up with to get the additional safety from this precaution?

Life is full of choices.

 

[audreyh1]

I know a some people who got symptomatic infections of Covid 90 days apart - two different variants Delta then Omicron.

 

[Retired2021]

I appreciate this post. DW and I received are last booster 2/28/21 (shot number 4). Neither of us have had COVID. Always wear a mask when indoors in a large crowd. Also, still using Purell and washing hands frequently. Taking a plane to Florida for vacation in a couple weeks. I'm thinking about getting the booster this week. Kinda on the fence.

Sorry, I misread my vaccination card. Our last shot was 12/1/21 not 2/28/21. It was shot number 3. We went to Walgreens yesterday and received our 4th shot. Just a sore arm at the moment.

 

[Aerides]

When the new bivalent booster came out, most of the messaging I heard was geared around it being a "new, annual shot" but I'm sure that if/when that changes, there will be new guidance.

Perhaps that's why there's not a whole lot of chatter about another booster, because this one is supposed to be annual, or at very least close to it.

I'll get the next when advised to for my age group, or in the fall again.

 

[RetMD21]

I think the OP asks an excellent question and I'm a bit surprised more people aren't asking it and that there doesn't seem to be much information coming out of the CDC. As someone who has had all of my shots as soon as I could get them, it feels a bit like the public's general lack of interest in the virus/vaccine is creating a situation where the CDC has essentially given up on trying to actively inform those of us who do want to be vaccinated.

I received my bivalent booster in early September, so it's been more than 4 mos. I don't think I necessarily need another booster today, but I might benefit from one soon. Then again, who knows ... maybe I wouldn't benefit. Maybe another could actually be harmful.

At present there is no evidence showing benefit of a second booster and it isn't recommended. I am not sure what you want from the CDC.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

At present there is no evidence showing benefit of a second booster and it isn't recommended. I am not sure what you want from the CDC.

We want them (CDC) to tell us, not a dozen different medical people on the news whose actual knowledge of this situation is unknown.

And "no evidence showing benefit" is not quite the same as "proven to have no benefit". I've heard a fair amount of stuff suggesting that the bivalent vaccines may not be any better than the originals, but a more recent booster is still more protective than one over a year old. I have not heard anything from the CDC about when/if a second bivalent booster will be recommended. Probably the news media are short-changing the CDC, but it's easy to get the impression that they aren't even studying the question.

There is still a lot to be learned about Covid and the vaccines. It seems like the CDC embarrassed themselves with some of their earlier pronouncements sounding more certain than the facts eventually supported, and now they don't want to say much at all.

 

[Montecfo]

The suspected link to stroke risk is giving me pause.

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...may-be-linked-stroke-older-adults-2023-01-13/

 

[bluelight]

I have taken each Covid vaccine when available/recommended for me.

Thus far I've had:

Initial two-doses of Pfizer in early 2021.
Pfizer booster in Fall of 2021.
Pfizer booster in Spring of 2022 before vacation.
Moderna bivalent booster in Fall of 2022.

All the articles I've seen are saying that the bivalent boosters seem to be losing their effectiveness in your body over time, just like the previous injections. In the past, the talk was that 6-9 months after your most recent booster, most of your protection was gone. There is a kind of "residual" protection against severe disease and death that lasts longer, but I haven't seen any info about how good that is or how long it lasts. My bivalent booster is now 4 months old and I'm wondering what my next move should be this Spring.

BTW, after each shot I start to get a fever that evening, spend the next day in bed, and still feel crummy the third day.
That's supposed to mean that my body is developing a "robust immune response", I'm supposed to feel good that I feel bad.
DW has very little discomfort in the days after a Covid shot.
In Spring of 2022 we took a week long river cruise in France for our 50th. Viking was very alert, Covid test every morning, etc. We literally were never out of each other's reach for the week, including flights.
The day after we got home DW came down with Covid and was quite sick, though no extra treatment was needed. I stayed by her side, no masks, throughout the ordeal. I never got even a sniffle. My reward for the vaccination reactions?


The normal answer to these questions is "ask your doctor." She is very good but also adheres strictly to all the rules and would not recommend or approve anything that deviates from the CDC guidance.

Thoughts?

Reading this, I thought I was reading a post I had written... right down to the springtime Viking River Cruise through France (we did the 2 week France's Finest). Luckily, while my sister and BIL who traveled with us the entire trip came down with Covid within a couple of days of our returrn home, DH and I did not. They are both fully vaxxed and boosted but have never had more than arm discomfort.

I didn't have my fall 2022 bivalent booster until Nov so I have a few more months to see what the powers that be decide. With every Covid vaccine and booster I am in bed feeling miserable with aches, fever and chills for 3 days. I was originally going to get the booster as soon as it was available, but need to plan for 3 days down time. It's really getting old.

 

[flyingaway]

I usually get a booster when I am about to travel out of the U.S. This will happen soon.

 

[Sunset]

Curious, can you provide where you found that interesting piece of information.

"Getting covid offers no better protection than a shot".

Thanks.

I'd be interested in that also, because I've seen different news stories saying both that a booster is as good as previous infection, or not as good.

The answer seems to depend partially on how sick you got, and which version(s) are currently circulating.

The CDC says a vaccination is better protection than covid.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html


This points out that vaccination is more dependable for protection than getting covid and hoping you provide an immune response.

Note: It does have a link to the ZOE covid study, which has found if you get covid, and then follow it up with vaccines, you end up with better and longer protection than either alone.
"“If you’ve already had COVID-19, that acts like the first dose of a vaccine to prime your immune system. Then the first dose of the vaccine acts as a booster and the second dose amplifies the effect again, adding up to higher protection overall,” Mike explains."

https://patient.info/news-and-features/do-you-get-better-covid-19-immunity-from-vaccination-or-infection

 

[Surewhitey]

The suspected link to stroke risk is giving me pause.

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...may-be-linked-stroke-older-adults-2023-01-13/

Ditto, hopefully just a small number affected. I'm holding out even though I'm not in the age bracket for the stroke stuff...I'm still waiting to get infected. Me, my sis & mom have never tested positive (unless we were completely asymptomatic). DW has had it twice.

 

[Amethyst]

After dutifully getting the first 4 Pfizer shots that were offered, I got COVID last July.

I was going to get the fifth shot, and then my very smart, very pro-vaccine friend got it, and was very sick for a week. She refuses to get any more COVID boosters. I myself am wavering.

OTOH, everyone is telling me - after my recent, two weeks' battle with influenza - that I really, really oughta get the yearly flu shot, even though that, too, can fail to prevent my getting the flu.

So, if I'm willing to start getting a yearly flu shot, I'm not sure what's causing me to waver about COVID boosters. Is it:
1) COVID shots are new, I'm starting to feel like a guinea pig, or
2) I've heard about bad reactions to the latest COVID boosters - whereas I rarely hear about such reactions to the flu shot.

[Wailing] I just don't wanna get sick!!

I have taken each Covid vaccine when available/recommended for me.

Thus far I've had:

Initial two-doses of Pfizer in early 2021.
Pfizer booster in Fall of 2021.
Pfizer booster in Spring of 2022 before vacation.
Moderna bivalent booster in Fall of 2022.

All the articles I've seen are saying that the bivalent boosters seem to be losing their effectiveness in your body over time, just like the previous injections. In the past, the talk was that 6-9 months after your most recent booster, most of your protection was gone. There is a kind of "residual" protection against severe disease and death that lasts longer, but I haven't seen any info about how good that is or how long it lasts. My bivalent booster is now 4 months old and I'm wondering what my next move should be this Spring.

BTW, after each shot I start to get a fever that evening, spend the next day in bed, and still feel crummy the third day.
That's supposed to mean that my body is developing a "robust immune response", I'm supposed to feel good that I feel bad.
DW has very little discomfort in the days after a Covid shot.
In Spring of 2022 we took a week long river cruise in France for our 50th. Viking was very alert, Covid test every morning, etc. We literally were never out of each other's reach for the week, including flights.
The day after we got home DW came down with Covid and was quite sick, though no extra treatment was needed. I stayed by her side, no masks, throughout the ordeal. I never got even a sniffle. My reward for the vaccination reactions?


The normal answer to these questions is "ask your doctor." She is very good but also adheres strictly to all the rules and would not recommend or approve anything that deviates from the CDC guidance.

Thoughts?

 

[EastWest Gal]

I regularly listen to This Week in Virology and last weekend they shared the results of a preprint regarding the effectiveness of the bivalent booster.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4314067

It seems very effective in reducing severe Covid. In a previous episode sometime last fall, it was clearly recommended to wait at least 3 months after Covid to get the bivalent booster, because of a less effective immune response after Covid.

I’m planning to get a second bivalent booster, but because my first one didn’t count. I came down with Covid the same day as I got the first bivalent booster. That was bad luck. And I always have a short but intense immune response to Covid vaccines. Fever, aches, swollen achy local lymph nodes.

 

[intent]

At present there is no evidence showing benefit of a second booster and it isn't recommended. I am not sure what you want from the CDC.

On this CDC.gov page they outline what it means to stay up to date with your vaccines. They don't address AT ALL what, if anything, a person who has received their bivalent booster should do after X amount of time. As far as I can tell, those of us in this group are the ONLY group who are no longer receiving ANY information from the CDC.

I suppose it could be fair to say, 'If they aren't telling you what to do, that means you don't need to do anything,' but that isn't typically how information is communicated in a situation like this. Usually, when it comes to healthcare, it's better to over communicate rather than communicate through inference.

Frankly, assuming your information is correct, I would be satisfied with the CDC copying/pasting your first sentence and adding it to their site. Just looking for some communication from them to address the group I'm in.