Should I relocate for more money or stay and pay off my house?

[Sunset]

Thanks for sharing your story. Did you rent the house yourself or go through a property mgmt company? Did you ever rent to family? I have a family member who said he would be willing to rent or buy my house if I ever were to move. Not sure if renting to family is a good idea though.

I had a friend post ads, set show times, and show it, as I was already gone by that time. I also knew a landlord who rented a couple of dozen places and he could run the credit check (NEVER rent a place to anybody without a credit check).
I'm going to emphasize the credit check and credit history, as it showed me, folks who were nicely dressed, talked well, drove new cars, sometimes didn't pay their bills
Some of the slobs who looked at the place had better credit history.

Renting to family would be ok (with credit history report and a lease), because it really is a multi-thousand dollar deal you are doing.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I've always liked living in big cities with a multitude of job openings. As others have posted, companies' raise policies often force people to change jobs every few years in IT to get market wages. I would not really be thinking so much about your next job as where do you see yourself in ten or twenty years and work back from there.

There is also nothing wrong with staying put as an option if you are happy where you are at. The Onion has a cute satirical article mocking people who have lives focused solely on their careers:

"Former classmates also confirmed that the underachiever is apparently resigned to going to his little small-time, stable, extremely fulfilling job in town each day and has zero ambitions to leave his position and pursue a more prestigious and soul-crushing career path in a real city."

 

[RobbieB]

That's kinda what I was getting at.

There is a constant barrage of vitriol wrt "MegaCorps" here and hey if you go for the bucks they are at MegaCorp.

Do what you want to do and what makes you happy.

 

[aaronc879]

Do you have a formal offer(the job is yours if you want it) for 40% more money? If you do, then I would tell your boss. Tell him you will stay with a 20% raise otherwise you will be leaving. See what happens.

I personally would likely stay put. You seem happy as is, why risk that? You don't need the extra money. The extra money would require moving to a place that is away from family, more expensive, and you would probably have to give up the house you really like.

 

[gasman]

One thing I would not recommend is to go to your current employer and ask them to match any offer. If that happens it will never be the same. Whatever you do don't second guess yourself after yo make your decision. Your young and have a lot of years to see what happens. I think he bigger question is does the new job give you the opportunity to grow in your skills. A lot of developers found out the hard way when tech passed them by.

 

[athena53]

One thing I would not recommend is to go to your current employer and ask them to match any offer. If that happens it will never be the same.

It depends. I know it doesn't work in the vast majority of cases but I know two people for whom it worked very well and they're still with that employer 10+ years later. Both were superstars, though, one with a unique set of skills the employer realized they were under-valuing. Only the OP knows if that's a possibility. And, if current job has less of a future for advancement and learning, don't even bother trying to get more money to stay.

 

[Barry Darsow]

A couple of opinions:

1). Life is too short to sign up for long commutes on a sustained basis.

2). Net worth development isn't about what you earn, it's about what you keep. Do the detailed work including taxes, COL, and simple things like cost of lunch. The 40% increase may yield a lot less in terms of real gains. Doing a big move that nets you basically a car payment isn't worth it.

3). View this strategically regarding your skills. You're young. If your skills are atrophying then run, don't walk, to the new opportunity.

4). You're young...mistakes can be undone...risk is good. All else being equal, take a risk and then work hard to make sure it pays off.

Good luck.

1) I commute nearly 100 miles a day currently, have been doing this commute for almost 10 years, and kinda tired of it. It is usually 45-50 minutes each way, sometimes an hour if there is construction, or 90 min plus if there is a bad snow storm. That is about 8 hours of driving in a normal week.

I could take this job, find a place near work to stay, and go home every weekend, and that would be about the same amount of driving. I really want to cut down on the driving though. If the job were 90 minutes or 2 hours away (there is another big city within this distance) or if I could find a job where I can telecommute some of the time, that would be ideal.

2) The increased housing costs would eat up some of the gains but the cost of living is not much if any higher there. I expect to pay about 300/mo more for an apartment than my current mortgage.

3) I wouldn't say my skills are atrophying but stagnant. I am not learning anything new, other than company specific stuff and pretty much have to teach myself. could work on a side project or do sone self study to deal with that however.

4) True.. although if I were to move back, I would likely not be able to find another job in the area utilizing my skillset.

 

[Barry Darsow]

Probably not, as it could put you in the position of having to evict him/her if things went sour in their financial world. If that happened, could you do it?

No, this is a parent

 

[Barry Darsow]

Renting to family would be ok (with credit history report and a lease), because it really is a multi-thousand dollar deal you are doing.

At least they would take care of it, the main concern is either not being paid down the line (not likely but possible) or perhaps I would want to move back. Either situation would be difficult

 

[Barry Darsow]

I've always liked living in big cities with a multitude of job openings. As others have posted, companies' raise policies often force people to change jobs every few years in IT to get market wages.

Sadly that is the truth. A 2% raise has been the norm in recent years and there were some years there was no raise due to financial difficulties.

I would not really be thinking so much about your next job as where do you see yourself in ten or twenty years and work back from there.

I would like to be out of the corp world and self employed. That is the long term goal. Another option is to stick with this job which is not super stressful (the new job could be) and get something started on the side. Depending on the workload at the new place, I may not have the energy to do something on the side

There is also nothing wrong with staying put as an option if you are happy where you are at. The Onion has a cute satirical article mocking people who have lives focused solely on their careers:

"Former classmates also confirmed that the underachiever is apparently resigned to going to his little small-time, stable, extremely fulfilling job in town each day and has zero ambitions to leave his position and pursue a more prestigious and soul-crushing career path in a real city."

I keep having these thoughts of moving back and then think "if I keep thinking that then why move in the first place?" I am still on the fence but that is one reason why I haven't pulled the trigger on this

 

[Barry Darsow]

That's kinda what I was getting at.

There is a constant barrage of vitriol wrt "MegaCorps" here and hey if you go for the bucks they are at MegaCorp.

Do what you want to do and what makes you happy.

I am really trying to cut to dig deep and figure out what my motivations are for wanting to make this move. I could do this moving around and then think "why the h*** didn't I just stay".

 

[Barry Darsow]

Do you have a formal offer(the job is yours if you want it) for 40% more money? If you do, then I would tell your boss. Tell him you will stay with a 20% raise otherwise you will be leaving. See what happens.

Yes but could I be playing with fire?

I personally would likely stay put. You seem happy as is, why risk that? You don't need the extra money. The extra money would require moving to a place that is away from family, more expensive, and you would probably have to give up the house you really like.

Good point, I keep going back and forth. If I decline this offer, another may come along closer to home. If this job were within commuting distance, I would have already accepted. If I accept the offer and it doesn't work out, there is no going back - my current job (and likely house) would be filled. It is not that the current job is all that great as there are issues, but it could be difficult finding another job that is a decent match for my skillset and I would lose my seniority, vacation time, etc.

This job I am considering was offering two weeks LESS vacation than I get now. I would have to stay there 10 years to match what I have now. They said they would compromise and give me another week if I were to accept.

 

[Barry Darsow]

It depends. I know it doesn't work in the vast majority of cases but I know two people for whom it worked very well and they're still with that employer 10+ years later. Both were superstars, though, one with a unique set of skills the employer realized they were under-valuing. Only the OP knows if that's a possibility. And, if current job has less of a future for advancement and learning, don't even bother trying to get more money to stay.

There is nobody else in my group with my skillset...although I feel like I am being marginalized. The company does not want anything new to be developed or innovation, just maintain the status quo.

It is possible but could be risky. They could possibly give me a raise and then try to manage me out. Or they might try to transfer me to their corporate office which is halfway across the country . There isn't much opportunity to advance or learn (unless things change) so I would still need to work on finding something else whether I accept this offer or not.

 

[Bamaman]

As others have posted, companies' raise policies often force people to change jobs every few years in IT to get market wages.

Sadly that is the truth. A 2% raise has been the norm in recent years and there were some years there was no raise due to financial difficulties.

I have no desire to work for any company in true financial difficulties. Life is not worth worrying about the next paycheck--and lack of keeping up with the cost of living.

I would not really be thinking so much about your next job as where do you see yourself in ten or twenty years and work back from there.

I would like to be out of the corp world and self employed. That is the long term goal. Another option is to stick with this job which is not super stressful (the new job could be) and get something started on the side. Depending on the workload at the new place, I may not have the energy to do something on the side

You're in an industry where some people are very talented in their field--but they're not talented at marketing their skills. I've seen high level IT professionals that should have worked harder at finding better companies to work for.

"Former classmates also confirmed that the underachiever is apparently resigned to going to his little small-time, stable, extremely fulfilling job in town each day and has zero ambitions to leave his position and pursue a more prestigious and soul-crushing career path in a real city."

Don't sell yourself short. But sometimes it's time to step up and go for more out of life.

 

[Aerides]

You seem conflicted, rightfully so.

The stagnation you mention in your current role means your marketability could decrease a LOT over the next few years, and doing this hop at 45 vs. 35 will be much harder, and likely you'll find many doors closed that are open now.

You mention you live close to family now - do you have young kids? Are schools good? If yes, a vote for the stay column.

If not, I'd map out your financial picture for stay vs. go with a 10 year lookout. Factor in the new salary and increased 401k match, minus the vacation, increased COL, everything, and see if there's a significant difference in 10 years.

If the move puts you markedly ahead, there you go.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I don't think you have any bad options, but it sounds like you are a bit bored and where you are at. Maybe you need some stretch goals and be working towards them? Either try out a new more exciting job or city, take classes, start your own side business or some combination?

I used to do in house tech recruiting for a SF Bay area company and I can tell you recruiters get pretty excited at getting resumes from highly qualified, but underpaid single people in low wage states. We could offer relocation packages and huge salary increases and everybody was happy. But once people got married and had kids, even if one spouse wanted to move, the offer often got turned down because the other spouse didn't want to leave friends or family or they decided not to disrupt the kids' friends and school life. One exception was a guy took our offer and divorced his wife who didn't want to move! So if you think you might want to move and also have plans to get married and/or have a family some day, now is the time to do the move or you may lose your window of opportunity.

With the local IT people many of the really skilled ones either went into contracting where they could set their own rates and charge by the hour or they changed jobs every few years / quit and got counter offers to get paid market wages. The HR system at many companies was dysfunctional for keeping good IT talent back then and doesn't seem to have changed much over the years.

 

[Barry Darsow]

I have no desire to work for any company in true financial difficulties. Life is not worth worrying about the next paycheck--and lack of keeping up with the cost of living.

They are not in danger if closing anytime soon and the company is positioned for a rebound. That being said, I am underpaid and management would rather line their own pockets (and hire cronies to fill those positions) rather than reward loyal employees.

You're in an industry where some people are very talented in their field--but they're not talented at marketing their skills. I've seen high level IT professionals that should have worked harder at finding better companies to work for.

That is very true. Whether I accept this offer or not, I really need to give serious consideration to moving on.

 

[Barry Darsow]

You seem conflicted, rightfully so.

The stagnation you mention in your current role means your marketability could decrease a LOT over the next few years, and doing this hop at 45 vs. 35 will be much harder, and likely you'll find many doors closed that are open now.

Exactly! This has been on my mind. If I make a move, it needs to be very soon.

You mention you live close to family now - do you have young kids? Are schools good? If yes, a vote for the stay column.

No kids although I am not getting much family support. I told one family member who wasn't excited. My grandmother thinks it is horrible if any of her kids or grandkids were to move...although to be honest, I would not see her (or any other family members) any less than I do now.

If not, I'd map out your financial picture for stay vs. go with a 10 year lookout. Factor in the new salary and increased 401k match, minus the vacation, increased COL, everything, and see if there's a significant difference in 10 years.

If the move puts you markedly ahead, there you go.

It seems to but there could be hidden costs I am not thinking of, going to have to look into further.

 

[Sasset]

Also, it is not just the current offer that you should consider. Is there more opportunity for promotion? I left a job for equal pay in higher cost of living area, but more opportunity. That allowed me to move up and increase salary several times over the years. Now I am FI even I haven't been able to to pull trigger to FIRE

 

[Barry Darsow]

I don't think you have any bad options, but it sounds like you are a bit bored and where you are at. Maybe you need some stretch goals and be working towards them? Either try out a new more exciting job or city, take classes, start your own side business or some combination?

Yes a little bored and complacent.
I have considered those options as well. I would like to start a business someday and have considered taking classes.

I
I used to do in house tech recruiting for a SF Bay area company and I can tell you recruiters get pretty excited at getting resumes from highly qualified, but underpaid single people in low wage states. We could offer relocation packages and huge salary increases and everybody was happy. But once people got married and had kids, even if one spouse wanted to move, the offer often got turned down because the other spouse didn't want to leave friends or family or they decided not to disrupt the kids' friends and school life. One exception was a guy took our offer and divorced his wife who didn't want to move! So if you think you might want to move and also have plans to get married and/or have a family some day, now is the time to do the move or you may lose your window of opportunity.

With the local IT people many of the really skilled ones either went into contracting where they could set their own rates and charge by the hour or they changed jobs every few years / quit and got counter offers to get paid market wages. The HR system at many companies was dysfunctional for keeping good IT talent back then and doesn't seem to have changed much over the years.

Thanks for the info! I have thought about getting with a recruiter in the nearest big city, I have mainly been applying directly to companies. I am trying to figure out whether this offer is as good as any I would get or not. The money is good and I did feel a positive vibe with the managers I dealt with. They have been friendly, straightforward, and patient with me as I think it over. The main problem is that nearly 3 hour drive when I could perhaps find something that is just over 2 hours away or in a closer city that is less than 2 hours away (but which has a higher cost of living)

 

[Barry Darsow]

Also, it is not just the current offer that you should consider. Is there more opportunity for promotion? I left a job for equal pay in higher cost of living area, but more opportunity. That allowed me to move up and increase salary several times over the years. Now I am FI even I haven't been able to to pull trigger to FIRE

It doesn't seem like it. The managers I spoke to have both been with the company for nearly 20 years. It is a small IT dept with less than 10 people.

There is not much opportunity for advancement where I am at OTOH as I was recently passed over in favor of less experienced/skilled co workers. The logical transition is to a corporate dev team but if it hasn't happen by now, it probably will not. It is a carrot on a stick that has been dangled in front of me for years.

 

[Barry Darsow]

If not, I'd map out your financial picture for stay vs. go with a 10 year lookout. Factor in the new salary and increased 401k match, minus the vacation, increased COL, everything, and see if there's a significant difference in 10 years.

If the move puts you markedly ahead, there you go.

Here are the numbers:

After tax salary increase would be approx 16k

----

Option 1: Stay put
-8k (housing and vehicle expenses: this includes mortgage not counting payment toward principle, also includes gas, vehicle wear and tear, etc)
1.5k: value of one week extra vacation which current job offers but other company does not

Total house/vehicle expenses + extra vac time = -6.5k

-----

Option 2: Rent cheap apt close to work and keep house for weekend use

-16k (rent, mortgage, and vehicle expense: apt would be closer to new job, but driving expenses would be the same due to visits home every other weekend, additional heating costs to heat 2nd dwelling)
-2k misc expenses (internet at two homes, heat, gym membership, snow removal, etc)
+16k additional salary

Total house/vehicle/misc expenses + increased salary = -2k

NET GAIN (vs. Staying put) = 4500 after tax per year

----

Option 3: Move to apartment near new job and rent out or sell house

-13k (Housing and vehicle expenses)
-1k (misc expenses I do not currently have like gym membership for example)
+16k additional salary

Expenses + increased salary = +2k

NET GAIN vs. Staying put = 8500 after tax per year

-----

The new job commute would likely be 1 hour shorter. The work day is a half hour longer per day. Between that and the time spend driving back home (lets say 2x per month), the time factor in all three scenerios is pretty much a wash even if commute goes from 45 min to 15 min each way.

 

[Barry Darsow]

Where do I want to be in 10 years? Self employed - perhaps create a product and sell it and/or freelance. I would consider a career change due to the ageism in this field, but not too many career fields look for entry level people in their 40s which is what I would be when finishing up a degree program.

I am thinking either: 1) keep currrent job and get some type of business going in the side or 2) Pursue jobs to maximize income which would likely require moving around and/or working longer hours (which could make it more difficult to work on side projects).

 

[aaronc879]

Option 2 would be by far my last choice. I think you need to decide whether you want the new job or your current house, not both. I would stay at the job you have and like and if you one day don't like it then go to contract/freelance work.

 

[Barry Darsow]

Option 2 would be by far my last choice. I think you need to decide whether you want the new job or your current house, not both. I would stay at the job you have and like and if you one day don't like it then go to contract/freelance work.

I was liking that idea at first - best of both worlds - but that trip could get old after awhile. That 3 hour trip could be longer during construction season or bad weather. Then there is the less ideal living conditions 5/7 of the time and having to maintain two households. If I were to get into a relationship, that could strain the relationship. This option would make life more complicated. Bad idea.