Smoke detectors
- Thread starter ArkTinkerer
- Start date
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This post made me remember something that happened in our condo. Seems a number of years ago there was a storm that damaged the ceiling drywall because the roof leaked. The centralized smoke/fire alarm system was acting up recently, so they did testing. During this process, they discovered that the smoke detector for the master bedroom had been placed on top of ductwork and then the drywall put up over the ductwork. They made it right, but one wonders why the inspectors we hired for the purchase did not notice a missing smoke detector. The building is completely sprinklered, and we also discovered that a head was missing in a somewhat obscure (but important) spot. Apparently since the place was built.
Reminds me that instead of just changing the batteries once a year, one should sit down from time to time and review all safety systems. Another one-how long has it been since you checked the fire extinguisher in your kitchen? You do have one, don't you?
I haven't lived in a place with working smoke detectors since I was stationed in Missouri, I think. That would've been fourteen years ago. I've been dismantling them everywhere I moved. I remember them being so darn sensitive that they'd go off from the shower steam after opening the bathroom door. I figured it was safer to not have a smoke alarm than clambering around on a stool with my fingers in my ears and a wet towel around my waist.
Maybe move it to a place where that won't happen? I guarantee there are some in your abode if it's larger than 1 room.
Obviously, if there's anyone else living with you, or if you live in a multi-unit structure, there are other people affected by this decision you are making.
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ArkTinkerer
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From keeping rental property we have commercial extinguishers in those houses as well as our own. They get tested/charged every year. We check the detectors at the same time. Amazing how many batteries are missing every year.
Corporateburnout
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Hopefully you don't live in an apartment building or an attached condo. I wouldn't want you as my neighbor.....
GalaxyBoy
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Try replacing the ionization detector with a photoelectric type. Also note that code requires detectors to be at least 36" from doors to bathrooms containing showers, although I don't think 36" will necessarily prevent the problem.
Just don't wake up dead from smoke inhalation!
I stayed at a hotel once where the fan in the bathroom was not functioning. So when I took my shower the steam caused the room alarm to go off. I had a 6:00 am flight so was showering at 4:00 am. I'm sure everyone appreciated that.
I hate that new detectors never seem to fit on the plates of the old ones. So you either have multiple plates or holes in your walls. CO2 detectors plug into outlets. I wish the had smoke detectors that did too but have not seen them. Our house has one over the upstairs stairwell. There is no way you can reach it to change the batteries. The low battery alert will continue for a long time.....
I hate that new detectors never seem to fit on the plates of the old ones. So you either have multiple plates or holes in your walls. CO2 detectors plug into outlets. I wish the had smoke detectors that did too but have not seen them. Our house has one over the upstairs stairwell. There is no way you can reach it to change the batteries. The low battery alert will continue for a long time.....
ArkTinkerer
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Smoke detectors need to be at the ceiling. They could plug in but how many people have outlets on their ceilings? Plugging them in 18" above the floor would not give you much advanced notice. We do have hard wired (AC) powered units in parts of our home now. We had AC with battery back up but this latest round we went straight AC.
GalaxyBoy
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Wouldn't work and would violate code. Smoke from a hot fire rises and banks down from the ceiling, so the detector has to be at ceiling level to respond. CO (not CO2, by the way) would typically be from a fuel-burning appliance and would mix with air, fairly quickly reaching ambient temperature, so the detector can go at any level.
Corporateburnout
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I wasn't aware that hardwired smoke and CO detectors are available without battery backup.
So what happens in case of a fire or carbon monoxide leak with a power outage? Do you have a power generator?
It >might< work. I've got an odd receptacle in my LR that is on the wall about 5" below the ceiling. The house was built in 1959, so it surely wasn't for a smoke detector, but I don't know what its purpose is/was. Maybe a plug from a swag lamp?
But I agree, this is an oddity.
travelover
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It used to be common to put clock outlets high on the wall. Usually they are a single outlet with a hook formed into the cover, at the top.
I had forgotten about that but my parent's house had one like that in the kitchen over one of the cabinets. And the clock plugged into it.
Good guess. We've got some of those, too, but all have a single recpt and are inset into the wall (so the clock can be flush with the wall). The mystery receptacle is a duplex and oriented horizontally.
ArkTinkerer
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I didn't mention the CO meter but yes, ours just plugs into the wall. I think most of these are not battery backed. The AC powered smoke detectors were actually preferred according to the sources I checked. When I did the first ones I had the same concern as you but was assured that AC only met code. The reasoning is that so many people fail to maintain the detectors that odds are higher that the battery is missing or dead than AC power going out. Still, we went with dual powered the first time and some units this time. I put a couple AC only in locations where it was particularly hard to access for battery swapping--including the attic which is often overlooked. With enough units it seemed we often got a battery going out in less than the 6 months between standard changes.
Power outages are pretty rare in most places, but I'd guess the chances for a fire (or CO poisoning) are a lot higher on a "per day" basis during an outage. Candles, kerosene/propane heaters and burners for water, people using NG stoves for heat (despite the danger), etc.
Those smoke detectors with 10 year batteries might not be a bad idea. No hassle and nothing to remember for a decade, then toss them.
ERD50
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We had a fire in our previous home, the first thing that alerted us was that the power went out in that room. The fire was in a wall, and it melted the wire insulation and shorted them.
The old alarms in our current home are the AC only type (no back up battery), but I bought a bunch of battery powered ones to have in addition. Two on the first floor (one was AC), one in the upstairs hall (AC) and one in each bedroom and one in the basement. The AC only were replaced with AC with battery backup. I would never forgive myself if something bad happened that could have been prevented with an alarm. Seems like very cheap assurance to me.
The 10 year battery does seem to make sense. Since you are supposed to replace the unit after 10 years anyway, why not?
Two other things that should be standardized - a common base plate design (mentioned earlier), and a 'mute' button. I'm sure many of the cases of the alarms not having batteries in them are due to false alarms, and the battery doesn't get put back. A simple 10 minute mute button solves that.
-ERD50
Hermit
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My experience has been that they "notice" things that can be quickly and easily fixed but tend to not "notice" harder or more expensive things that could ruin a sale. After all, the inspector's "real" customer is the realtor.
I had an inspector notice a loose toilet in the powder room. He went into the crawl space to make sure it wasn't leaking. It wasn't. He didn't notice the floor joist two inches on either side of the toilet waste pipe that had been cut out to make room for the toilet. It was hanging by the nails in the sub floor and the reason the toilet was loose. And yes, it leaked shortly thereafter. I had to tear the tile out, repair the sub floor, shore up the joist, and refinish. When I sold the place, the inspector made me put different connectors in the shoring. A few minute and low cost job.
GalaxyBoy
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NFPA 72, the fire alarm code, was revised a number of years ago to require AC primary power as well as battery secondary power for smoke alarms, unless the batteries are good for ten years then no AC power is needed. Prior to that, AC-only was all that was required. So if you have a house built prior to that change (I had a house built in the 80's that was like this) then you might not have batteries in your smoke alarms. But then, as this thread began, you should be replacing them anyway since they're probably more than ten years old.
I'd go look up when that change happened, but that would be too much like being at work.
I'd go look up when that change happened, but that would be too much like being at work.
Gearhead Jim
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http://http://freakonomics.com/2012/02/06/how-many-lives-do-smoke-alarms-really-save/
Hopefully this link works. My iPad seems to be extremely poor at copying links. The gist of this freakonomics article is that smoke alarms are less than 29% effective at saving lives in a fire (compared to having no smoke detectors). This is admittedly a lot more significant than I suspected but I still don't plan on dealing with the cost and hassle of having a bunch of those shrill "hey you burned the toast" alarms in my house.
I guess I still like living dangerously.
Hopefully this link works. My iPad seems to be extremely poor at copying links. The gist of this freakonomics article is that smoke alarms are less than 29% effective at saving lives in a fire (compared to having no smoke detectors). This is admittedly a lot more significant than I suspected but I still don't plan on dealing with the cost and hassle of having a bunch of those shrill "hey you burned the toast" alarms in my house.
I guess I still like living dangerously.
ERD50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
How to recycle old alarms?
So now that I'm replacing the old ones, what the heck do you do with them?
They contain 'a small amount of Americium 241, a radioactive isotope', and you are not supposed to trash them. But I have not found any easy way to sidpose of them. Supposedly, you can mail them back to the manufacturer, but you need to check with them first?
Seems if they want to keep people from throwing them in the trash, they ought to make it easy to recycle. I'll be out doing errands tomorrow, I'll throw then in the car and stop by the fire station and see what they say.
-ERD50
So now that I'm replacing the old ones, what the heck do you do with them?
They contain 'a small amount of Americium 241, a radioactive isotope', and you are not supposed to trash them. But I have not found any easy way to sidpose of them. Supposedly, you can mail them back to the manufacturer, but you need to check with them first?
Seems if they want to keep people from throwing them in the trash, they ought to make it easy to recycle. I'll be out doing errands tomorrow, I'll throw then in the car and stop by the fire station and see what they say.
-ERD50
