Solar Panel Installation Experiences?

[stan boddie]

Hello,

We are considering having solar panels with a storage battery installed on our home in Florida. Does anyone have any experiences you are willing to share about your solar panel installation?

Thx in Advance,

Stan

 

[ls99]

I have a homebrew system at my camp. It works well for me. Don't have any knowledegde of commercial home installations. Suggest you do some homework on roof orientation, angle, weather at your location before getting commercial sales folks involved. Their job is to sell!!!!!!

 

[Spock]

stay away from bid aggregators like EnergySage. Your phone will melt down from all the calls and texts from all over the country wanting to talk to you (not WITH you) about your system, none of which will listen to what you say.

Unless you're up for DIY, it's a trade-off between using a local company (look for one that's been in business for longer) and nationals like Tesla, SunRun, etc.

 

[nphx]

We had interacted with Tesla up til they determined placing the panels on my accessory building was not mainstream cookie cutter. So now we are going a DIY rout , but i am handy and a electrical engineer. DIY materials vs tesla is about 1/3 for power but i opted for 'non grid tie' in DIY since primarily i am charging EV's and will use spare power for cooling. Tesla's system was grid tied but my utility company had some cap on max array size based on historical bills.

 

[ERD50]

Hello,

We are considering having solar panels with a storage battery installed on our home in Florida. Does anyone have any experiences you are willing to share about your solar panel installation?

Thx in Advance,

Stan

How much storage are you looking for, and why? To protect against power outage? How long and how many kWh and how much peak power? Or to store to resell between peak/non-peak TOD metering?

How much kWh production are you looking for, and why?

Those are key to put any suggestions in context. I'm pretty sure most residential solar installs are w/o a storage battery. Those require special inverters. But could make good sense if power outages are a concern, or if you can make money on TOD buy/sell.

-ERD50

 

[Aerides]

Florida/FPL has some odd rules about storage and power-outage use, so you will want to look into that. But presumably you need some storage to run stuff at night, and on overcast days

We are considering adding solar in S. Fla, but are not ready to start the quote process just yet.

 

[folivier]

Are there any hybrid systems that will provide electricity to supplement your daytime usage and also power your house during outages?
If so then living in Florida that could eliminate using a generator in hurricane affected areas.

 

[NW-Bound]

Are there any hybrid systems that will provide electricity to supplement your daytime usage and also power your house during outages?
If so then living in Florida that could eliminate using a generator in hurricane affected areas.

Yes, there are. Tesla Powerwalls have this capability, as well as many others, DIY systems included. You just need a large battery.

The problem with PV panels in hurricane areas is that the mounting has to be secure. When entire roofs get blown away, PV panels on roof tops are even more prone to being torn off roof. I wonder how one could do it.

 

[corn18]

Florida/FPL has some odd rules about storage and power-outage use, so you will want to look into that. But presumably you need some storage to run stuff at night, and on overcast days

We are considering adding solar in S. Fla, but are not ready to start the quote process just yet.

This is the roadblock we ran into in OH. The power company (Duke) will only let you build a system big enough for your power needs. NO selling back power. That's ok except they will only credit power cost not transmission fees and taxes. Good friends of ours put in a full system for $30k. They are happy that their power bill is zero but they still have to pay $62 / mo for the other crap. They could go full off grid, but that requires a lot more money for batteries. This is a really bad deal and definitely not pro solar.

 

[aja8888]

Yes, there are. Tesla Powerwalls have this capability, as well as many others, DIY systems included. You just need a large battery.

The problem with PV panels in hurricane areas is that the mounting has to be secure. When entire roofs get blown away, PV panels on roof tops are even more prone to being torn off roof. I wonder how one could do it.

I live in that hurricane area and I don't know anybody that has an operating solar system.

I do know many people that have installed whole house generators running off natural gas, however.

 

[NW-Bound]

This is the roadblock we ran into in OH. The power company (Duke) will only let you build a system big enough for your power needs. NO selling back power. That's ok except they will only credit power cost not transmission fees and taxes. Good friends of ours put in a full system for $30k. They are happy that their power bill is zero but they still have to pay $62 / mo for the other crap. They could go full off grid, but that requires a lot more money for batteries. This is a really bad deal and definitely not pro solar.

On the day that you have plenty of solar power of your own to pump onto the grid, large grid-scale solar installations have even more power out the wazoo.

It's no different than trying to sell water in a storm. You would have to pay somebody to pump it away for you.

And that's why I have a large battery with my DIY system. It's totally unconnected to the grid. I save the solar power collected but not used up by my ACs during the day. The battery can run the ACs through the night. Even when it's super hot and the ACs are running hard, I can keep the ACs on the battery and off the grid until 8PM. At 8PM, grid power cost drops from $0.24/kWh to $0.076.

Thus, I avoid using expensive grid power during the peak hours when it's expensive.

 

[calmloki]

We just had a rare power outage here for a couple hours. No problem, but did make us think about sustained power loss. Some years ago we actually ran the gas car to check/charge cell phones. big waste.
Surely there are people who use their solar array to charge their electric car and also have the ability to run power from the car battery to a 110V line to power selected things in the house. Run the car battery down and you aren't going anywhere, but you choose how to use the power. No idea what I'm suggesting, but the word "inverter" comes to mind..

And if I Google:

https://mashable.com/article/dcbel-... could go the Tesla,gather power from the sun.

So why a second, garage tethered battery?

 

[corn18]

On the day that you have plenty of solar power of your own to pump onto the grid, large grid-scale solar installations have even more power out the wazoo.

It's no different than trying to sell water in a storm. You would have to pay somebody to pump it away for you.

And that's why I have a large battery with my DIY system. It's totally unconnected to the grid. I save the solar power collected but not used up by my ACs during the day. The battery can run the ACs through the night. Even when it's super hot and the ACs are running hard, I can keep the ACs on the battery and off the grid until 8PM. At 8PM, grid power cost drops from $0.24/kWh to $0.076.

Thus, I avoid using expensive grid power during the peak hours when it's expensive.

How big is your solar array and battery bank?

 

[NW-Bound]

How big is your solar array and battery bank?

About 10 kW of PV panels, and 34 kWh of battery.

 

[corn18]

About 10 kW of PV panels, and 34 kWh of battery.

That's a good combo. My house is a single story and they put a bunch of architectural peaks in the roof that are completely unnecessary. The south facing area is very small. I could go with an east/west setup but not sure if that would provide enough power.

According to our power bill, we use 1600 kWh in July/Aug and average around 900 kWh the rest of the year. To go off grid, would need 16 kW of panels. Not sure that would fit on my roof. If I went with 900kWh, then I could get by with 10kW of panels. That would fit, but I would need to be grid tied for Jul/Aug.

 

[NW-Bound]

Prior to having the solar system, in July 2016 I used 1929 KWh on-peak, and 636 kWh off-peak, for a total of 2565 kWh.

Just last month, July 2022, I used 52 kWh on-peak and 789 kWh off-peak, for a total of 841 kWh.

I just now noticed I used more off-peak power after having the solar. Strange.

Anyway the big reduction of expensive on-peak consumption is the cause for a big bill reduction. And a large battery is needed, because the on-peak period lasts till 8PM, way after sunset.


PS. Cost at today's prices:

July 2016: 636 kWh * $0.24/kWh + 1929 kWh * $0.076 = $299

July 2022: 52 kWh * $0.24/kWh + 789 kWh * $0.076 = $72

The actual bills would include a fixed charge, plus all sorts of taxes and fees.

 

[braumeister]

Prior to having the solar system

Wow, that's impressive. How many planets do you have in yours?

 

[NW-Bound]

Wow, that's impressive. How many planets do you have in yours?

Planets don't count as they do not emit light. Only one sun, and that's enough.

More than one sun, and there would be more power, but the heat would be something no ACs can counteract.

 

[Yoheadden]

I can’t speak of an installation in FL or battery storage, but we are on our second system in CT.
The first system was measured incorrectly and they couldn’t fit the amount of panels I was originally quoted on. The system covered approximately a little more than half of our needs. This was 13 years ago.
After needing a new roof, we decided to get an entirely new system. We had an attic fan removed. This made space for more panels. The technology has come a huge way since our first system. The original was an inline system, so if 1 panel was affected by shade from a tree or chimney, the entire system’s output was affected. With the new system, each panel works independently from each other, so it maximises the output.
It covers all of our needs +, any excess gets carried over and banked. Once a year, it gets credited back to my account. So, for a few months of the year, I have no bill, the other months are around $9.00 which is a service fee that’s on the bill.

 

[NW-Bound]

I can’t speak of an installation in FL or battery storage, but we are on our second system in CT.
The first system was measured incorrectly and they couldn’t fit the amount of panels I was originally quoted on. The system covered approximately a little more than half of our needs. This was 13 years ago.
After needing a new roof, we decided to get an entirely new system. We had an attic fan removed. This made space for more panels. The technology has come a huge way since our first system. The original was an inline system, so if 1 panel was affected by shade from a tree or chimney, the entire system’s output was affected. With the new system, each panel works independently from each other, so it maximises the output.
It covers all of our needs +, any excess gets carried over and banked. Once a year, it gets credited back to my account. So, for a few months of the year, I have no bill, the other months are around $9.00 which is a service fee that’s on the bill.

Were you able to recover any residual value of your old system?

For people who do not know:

Old systems used a solar string inverter. The panels are wired in series in a string, which is connected to the inverter. Large systems necessitate multiple strings, because a super long string will have a combined voltage too high (>600 Volts) for the inverter. Shading of one panel in the string reduces the output of the entire string.

Modern systems use smaller micro inverters attached to the panels. The panels then operate independently from each other. Much better than the old system.

There's yet another technology. Each panel has an individual "DC power optimizer". The high-voltage DC is still brought down to a central DC-to-AC inverter.

The above 3 systems are grid-tied systems. Solar systems with battery storage add more variations.

DIY PV+battery power systems typically use a 48V DC bus voltage, because it comes from the legacy of lead-acid batteries. The use of the low DC bus voltage drives the choice of components and the wiring scheme.

 

[Yoheadden]

NW-Bound,
Very good explanation of the 2 different systems.

The life of your roof is definitely one of the considerations when thinking of going solar. We estimated the system did pay for itself in the time we had it active.
The new installation company wanted 5 grand to disassemble and reinstall the old system after my new roof was done. The new system cost $28,620, but after incentives, cost $19,100. It was going to cost 18 and change, but due to supply chain issues, they couldn’t get the panel originally planned for. I agreed on the next model up, which was slightly more, but actually works even more efficiently. It was an easy decision to put up a brand new, more advanced system instead of a 13 year old system and technology.
I owned the system, so I could have tried to sell it on the aftermarket, but a few people I talked to told me it was difficult to find a buyer for an old system, an inverter that was out of warranty and all the framework to fit. Most people just look for parts to replace panels for systems they all ready have. Not to mention, I would have to store it somewhere until I found a buyer or disposed of it.
Part of the process of getting a new system consisted of a site evaluation. The guy who came buy to check things out and take measurements asked me what I was doing with the old system. I ended up making a deal with him to to come by and remove the system for me and he would take it away. He said at least, he was going to use it on his uncles house. I was going to take it down myself, so the thought of saving $5,000(the company’s offer), having to do all the work myself(I’m mechanical, but not an electrician) and having to store it or find a way to dispose of it, made the offer to sound like a good deal. I was also under the gun because the installation date for my new roof was approaching.
Overall, I was very happy the way things turned out.
Also, as a bonus, as part of the process, we had to have a whole house energy audit done, which was paid for by the Solar company. As a result of that, new efficient bulbs, updating ceiling canisters in some areas and they recommended more installation in our attic, which we did because there were significant rebates at the time.

 

[ERD50]

... There's yet another technology. Each panel has an individual "DC power optimizer". The high-voltage DC is still brought down to a central DC-to-AC inverter. ....

Can you tell me more? Seems to me, to maintain the MPPT function, it would still need a switching circuit to maintain the proper output current/voltage. But that would be simpler, just one polarity, than a full AC circuit at line voltage, so I can see where that makes some sense.

But then, can the line-connected inverter sum these multiple, varying DC inputs somehow (how?) to feed just one larger inverter circuit?

-ERD50

 

[NW-Bound]

...

The new installation company wanted 5 grand to disassemble and reinstall the old system after my new roof was done. The new system cost $28,620, but after incentives, cost $19,100. It was going to cost 18 and change, but due to supply chain issues, they couldn’t get the panel originally planned for. I agreed on the next model up, which was slightly more, but actually works even more efficiently. It was an easy decision to put up a brand new, more advanced system instead of a 13 year old system and technology.

I owned the system, so I could have tried to sell it on the aftermarket, but a few people I talked to told me it was difficult to find a buyer for an old system, an inverter that was out of warranty and all the framework to fit.

I can see that it is difficult to sell an old system. I have seen old PV panels going for dirt cheap, particularly the early ones of polycrystalline cells instead of the high-efficient monocrystalline cells.

The Chinese can crank PV cells out so cheap, I was amazed to see bifacial panels now, where the back-side cells can pick up perhaps just another 20% power from diffused light. Of course, bifacial panels make no sense for residential roof mounting, where the panels are only inches away from the roof and their back side get little light.

PS. Seeing the availability of cheap used polycrystalline panels, I thought that if I had a ranch, would not cost me much to have my own mini solar farm using these panels in a ground-mounted array. Solar electricity galore! I would run the ACs full blast, and if it gets too cold, open the windows to let in some fresh (and hot) air.

 

[NW-Bound]

Can you tell me more? Seems to me, to maintain the MPPT function, it would still need a switching circuit to maintain the proper output current/voltage. But that would be simpler, just one polarity, than a full AC circuit at line voltage, so I can see where that makes some sense.

But then, can the line-connected inverter sum these multiple, varying DC inputs somehow (how?) to feed just one larger inverter circuit?

-ERD50

Yes, the distributed systems all have the MPPT function built into the panel-mounted electronics.

For the "power optimizer" systems, I am still trying to find out more info to satisfy my curiosity. In one design that I have seen, each panel box has a DC-DC step-up converter with MPPT function to pump the panel voltage of around 50V up to 400VDC. This 400VDC bus voltage of the array is brought down to a large DC-AC inverter mounted by the power meter/circuit breaker box.

 

[ERD50]

Yes, the distributed systems all have the MPPT function built into the panel-mounted electronics.

For the "power optimizer" systems, I am still trying to find out more info to satisfy my curiosity. In one design that I have seen, each panel box has a DC-DC step-up converter with MPPT function to pump the panel voltage of around 50V up to 400VDC. This 400VDC bus voltage of the array is brought down to a large DC-AC inverter mounted by the power meter/circuit breaker box.

Ahh, that makes sense, smaller wiring for 400V vs ~ 50V. And if the switchers are working to maintain a 400V output, I would think they could just be summed to a common load (a single inverter input), and each would feed in as much current as it could supply the 400V.

-ERD50