Solar, Wind Renewable Energy

[Koolau]

Presumably you mean since the current administration took office because there were no such accusations when the previous administration was in office.

Well, you got that right. Oil was celebrated up until 2 years ago. Now, not so much.

Exhibit one, of course, is the killing of Keystone.

The proof is in the amount of investment that O&G is putting into obtaining more oil - basically they are not right now. O&G folks are very smart when it comes to how to invest their money to make more money. If gummint is "for" more oil, O&G will invest heavily in finding more. Right now gummint is not "for" more oil investment by O&G but YMMV.

 

[explanade]

How do they get electric power? Germany was talking about going back to burning more coal in their thermal plants.

Europe already uses less energy per capita than the US. I think it is hard for them to squeeze out more efficiencies.

Supposedly the homes have a lot of room for improvement in energy efficiency.

If you think about these old structures which were converted into individual apartments with probably minimal insulation.

As far as electricity, they have plans to increase wind and solar. In particular, offshore wind platforms in deeper water and more solar farms in Southern Europe.

How quickly and how well they plan to do this remains to be seen.

But like the US, coal mining has fallen way off over there as well. They may need to burn more coal for a winter or two as they get off Russian gas permanently but it's not a long term bet.

 

[explanade]

Well, you got that right. Oil was celebrated up until 2 years ago. Now, not so much.

Exhibit one, of course, is the killing of Keystone.

The proof is in the amount of investment that O&G is putting into obtaining more oil - basically they are not right now. O&G folks are very smart when it comes to how to invest their money to make more money. If gummint is "for" more oil, O&G will invest heavily in finding more. Right now gummint is not "for" more oil investment by O&G but YMMV.

Well the Keystone pipeline claim (it was actually Keystone XL) has been debunked.

It wouldn't be producing oil now even if its permit was renewed.


As for investment in more production, really you think they're making investment decisions of billions of dollars on ideology and politics, not whether they think their capital will have a great return?

They're not looking at long term trends in the price of oil?

You know what slowed down shale oil was Saudis and Russians pushing down the price of oil, specifically to kill US shale oil production.

 

[pb4uski]

Yeah, I've had some friends claim that Keystone is why gas is so high and I researched it and it was a red herring. Not only would it not be online now, but it also was as I recall less than 1%... and of course, pipelines don't produce oil, they just transport oil.

 

[Montecfo]

Because that’s just part of a political playbook - messaging to make the other party look bad. Doesn’t mean it’s true. Nothing has been done to slow current production and there are plenty of available permits if the industry wants to drill more, but they don’t. There are headwinds of investing capital into a market that is expected to decline as alternative energy grows. That’s what is preventing new drilling and refining.

The Permian Basin in Texas is not federal land. So I would expect minimal impact there from changes in federal rules as far as production is concerned.

And the reason for the price plunge is lack of pipeline capacity (try getting a new pipeline permitted) and existing pipelines owned by Kinder Morgan down for maintenance.

It is not because the market is saturated.

And of course the excess gas which cannot be transported due to lack of pipeline capacity will be flared, which greens should hate. More pipeline capacity would be a far better solution.

 

[NW-Bound]

The point of the article is that it takes more infrastructure to move oil and gas to the consumer.

In the case of natural gas for Europe, it takes pipelines to move it to the gas liquifying terminal, LNG ships to transport it across the ocean, and storage tanks to hold it in Europe.

All this takes money and time to build. Without planning, people wait until their buns get frozen before they start to panic. Or people wait until they see gas stations closed down due to lack of resupply, then holler for more oil production, more refineries. More, more, more, ...

 

[Rianne]

"A wind farm in Germany is being dismantled to expand the Garzweiler lignite mine. One of eight turbines installed at the location in 2001 has already been removed. Nevertheless, the German state of North Rhine-Westphalia said it would phase out coal by 2030, as did RWE, the company that owns the mine."

https://balkangreenenergynews.com/w...nd farm in Germany,company that owns the mine.

 

[NW-Bound]

Meanwhile, it is enjoyable to log into my utility Web account to see how much grid power I used in the last day.

With the moderate temperature in spring and fall, my daily usage is 4 kWh, at a cost of $1.04/day. Of the $1.04, $0.67 is due to the fixed minimum charge.

I can wire the remaining circuits of the house to switch automatically off the grid and onto the solar+battery system, but then I only save about $11/month.

In 2 more months, when the heat pumps kick on, I will be short of solar power again and will start to draw more off the grid. Much of this is due to the low sun angle, plus a part of my solar array gets shaded by the 2nd story of my house. I am looking to mount some additional panels on the roof to make up for this.

More panels, more batteries, more inverters. More is better than less. More, more, more...

 

[Texas Proud]

Because that’s just part of a political playbook - messaging to make the other party look bad. Doesn’t mean it’s true. Nothing has been done to slow current production and there are plenty of available permits if the industry wants to drill more, but they don’t. There are headwinds of investing capital into a market that is expected to decline as alternative energy grows. That’s what is preventing new drilling and refining.

Possibly stopping the building of pipelines needed to move the product...


I am sure there are other things that were done but not knowledgeable about it.

 

[Koolau]

Well the Keystone pipeline claim (it was actually Keystone XL) has been debunked.

It wouldn't be producing oil now even if its permit was renewed.


As for investment in more production, really you think they're making investment decisions of billions of dollars on ideology and politics, not whether they think their capital will have a great return?

They're not looking at long term trends in the price of oil?

You know what slowed down shale oil was Saudis and Russians pushing down the price of oil, specifically to kill US shale oil production.

To avoid a food fight, I'm just gonna back away from this and say I'll agree to disagree. Nothing any of us says here will change anything, so I'm just gonna let it go. YMMV

 

[Koolau]

Meanwhile, it is enjoyable to log into my utility Web account to see how much grid power I used in the last day.

With the moderate temperature in spring and fall, my daily usage is 4 kWh, at a cost of $1.04/day. Of the $1.04, $0.67 is due to the fixed minimum charge.

I can wire the remaining circuits of the house to switch automatically off the grid and onto the solar+battery system, but then I only save about $11/month.

In 2 more months, when the heat pumps kick on, I will be short of solar power again and will start to draw more off the grid. Much of this is due to the low sun angle, plus a part of my solar array gets shaded by the 2nd story of my house. I am looking to mount some additional panels on the roof to make up for this.

More panels, more batteries, more inverters. More is better than less. More, more, more...

That's interesting. We are using about the same amount off the grid - roughly 4 to 5 KWh/day. Of course, with our high energy charge and connection charges, it's coming out about $0.40/Kwh. It's one of those paradoxes that here in Paradise, our electric charges "can" be relatively small (I've never paid over $80/month IIRC) because we don't need heat or AC. Over the years, we have continually cut our usage, as our appliances have died and been replaced by more efficient ones. All our lights are now either LEDs or a few remaining fluorescents, we just replaced the washer/dryer this year and the fridge last year. It has made a noticeable difference (heh, heh, the KWh's have gone down, but the monthly has remained about the same as HECO keeps boosting prices. YMMV

 

[explanade]

Possibly stopping the building of pipelines needed to move the product...


I am sure there are other things that were done but not knowledgeable about it.

Keystone XL pipeline was for Canadian tar sands oil, which they wanted to transport down to Louisiana to ship to global markets.

The province and the companies didn't have much success expanding pipelines to Vancouver or to the Atlantic Coast of Canada so they wanted to send it south.

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^ If you use so little power, it would not take many solar panels to generate it. The lithium battery requirement is also modest and affordable. Of course, you need to have space for the panels.

I wonder why the utility company in Hawaii has not gone solar+battery. The higher the cost of electricity, the easier it is to justify the cost for lithium battery.

Where I am, electricity is not that expensive. It is only by the low cost of DIY, plus my searching the Web for surplus and used components that I was able to put together something that stands a chance of paying for itself in less than 10 years.

It's not a purely monetary reason, but also a hobby and a chance of building something and seeing it work.

 

[Koolau]

^^^ If you use so little power, it would not take many solar panels to generate it. The lithium battery requirement is also modest and affordable. Of course, you need to have space for the panels.

I wonder why the utility company in Hawaii has not gone solar+battery. The higher the cost of electricity, the easier it is to justify the cost for lithium battery.

Where I am, electricity is not that expensive. It is only by the low cost of DIY, plus my searching the Web for surplus and used components that I was able to put together something that stands a chance of paying for itself in less than 10 years.

It's not a purely monetary reason, but also a hobby and a chance of building something and seeing it work.

Since I live in a condo, solar is not an option (at least for individuals.) In the case of HECO, they have essentially been able to limit the number of customers attaching solar to the grid since they can't manage it. Off grid applications - especially on Big Island are much more common - my Son had panels and battery back-up which was relatively effective (no connection to the grid at all.) Indeed, Hawaii SHOULD be much more solar, but HECO would have to completely restructure the grid and their integration capabilities. SWAG is that all the costs would fall on current users and probably would end up a boondoggle. Most "big" projects in the Islands fall into that category. But I'm not bitter.

 

[Popeye]

The Keystone Pipeline System was over half complete. At the time the presidential cross-border permit was revoked, construction of the 1,120-mile Keystone XL segment was on track to be completed in 2022, with operations starting in early 2023.

https://www.api.org/news-policy-and...r-of-the-importance-of-critical-infrastructur

Seems there’s a somewhat different opinion on the Keystone XL pipeline.

KXL was planned to connect the world’s third-largest oil reserve in Canada with U.S. Gulf Coast refineries that were configured to process heavier grades of crude like those from Alberta. There’s no evidence KXL crude would have been exported.

Those U.S. refineries on the Gulf that would have taken oil delivered by KXL still import waterborne heavy and medium crude to meet their demand requirements. KXL would have displaced other crudes imported from OPEC+ and Mexico.

 

[Koolau]

https://www.api.org/news-policy-and...r-of-the-importance-of-critical-infrastructur

Seems there’s a somewhat different opinion on the Keystone XL pipeline.

Yeah, in all of this my point has been the shift in gummint "attitude." IOW The gummint has made it clear that "O&G is on the outs" with gummint. What rational O&G company would invest in something that the gummint might one day say "Sorry, we're shutting that down." Fool me once... etc."

 

[Montecfo]

Yeah, in all of this my point has been the shift in gummint "attitude." IOW The gummint has made it clear that "O&G is on the outs" with gummint. What rational O&G company would invest in something that the gummint might one day say "Sorry, we're shutting that down." Fool me once... etc."

Especially given the experience with coal. No one voted on that.

Exactly the same thing could happen with o&g. If anything, the rhetoric against o&g at the highest levels of government is far more vitriolic than what we heard with coal.

 

[jimbee]

I am sure there are other things that were done but not knowledgeable about it.

That sums up a lot of the posts in this thread. People are sure of something, but not knowledgeable about it.

 

[explanade]

https://www.api.org/news-policy-and...r-of-the-importance-of-critical-infrastructur

Seems there’s a somewhat different opinion on the Keystone XL pipeline.

And here's a different source than the American Petroleum Institute.

The Keystone XL Pipeline, a planned extension to this larger system that would run 1,210 miles from Hardisty, Alberta to Steele City, Nebraska, is considered “the fourth phase of the Keystone Pipeline System” (www.keystonexl.com/about/).

Reuters spoke via email with James Stevenson, a spokesperson for the Canada Energy Regulator, which oversees the Canadian portion of the Keystone XL Pipeline (here). Stevenson confirmed that as of late 2020, about 152 kilometers, or 93 miles, of pipeline had been laid near the U.S.-Canada border.

Therefore, about 8% of the planned 1,210-mile XL extension had been built by the time President Biden revoked the permit.

https://www.reuters.com/article/fac...nding-it-was-only-8-constructed-idUSL1N2LA2SQ

 

[Koolau]

And here's a different source than the American Petroleum Institute.




https://www.reuters.com/article/fac...nding-it-was-only-8-constructed-idUSL1N2LA2SQ

How much O&G investment you s'pose 152 km of pipeline required? And how much to plan the parts that got summarily nixed? Just wondering so YMMV.

 

[Ronstar]

I vaguely remember that my company was working on a pipeline that was to connect to the Keystone pipeline when I retired. I suspect that there were many projects shelved when the Keystone got nixed.

 

[Popeye]

How much O&G investment you s'pose 152 km of pipeline required? And how much to plan the parts that got summarily nixed? Just wondering so YMMV.

I think they took a $1.8 billion charge when the project was shut down. Lots of working / planning/ procurement etc. must have been underway before the US pulled a 180 on our Canadian friends.

There was something I remember about that. There was an injunction halting construction but they were allowed to stage pipe materials as long as it wasn’t on the pipeline right of way. Hopefully all of that pipe gets used somewhere else. Maybe they could make a water line with it!

 

[explanade]

How much O&G investment you s'pose 152 km of pipeline required? And how much to plan the parts that got summarily nixed? Just wondering so YMMV.

The point was, it was nowhere near complete, despite what API propaganda would have you believe.

It still wouldn't be complete now.

 

[Popeye]

The point was, it was nowhere near complete, despite what API propaganda would have you believe.

It still wouldn't be complete now.

Anything to back that up? Even if we accept 8% of pipe was laid, that doesn’t mean 8% of the project was complete.

Take a look at construction times on the various phases which are operational. Phase I opened back in 2010. Without the various government delays, it would all have been completed years ago.

When the chickens come home to roost with an energy crisis we always hear this argument on oil and gas related projects that were blocked. They say it wouldn’t have mattered much or wouldn’t have been done yet. They forget the many projects before that which certainly would have been done. Individually they may not be huge but taken together it does add up.

 

[Ronstar]

I think they took a $1.8 billion charge when the project was shut down. Lots of working / planning/ procurement etc. must have been underway before the US pulled a 180 on our Canadian friends.

There was something I remember about that. There was an injunction halting construction but they were allowed to stage pipe materials as long as it wasn’t on the pipeline right of way. Hopefully all of that pipe gets used somewhere else. Maybe they could make a water line with it!

Doubt that anyone would make a water line from sticks of 36" oil pipeline. I've never seen a welded steel watermain. (I've only seen one 36" or bigger).

Chance are the staged pipe is being repurposed on other pipeline projects. Although there may not be many 36" diameter pipelines being built now in the US.