Stealth Wealth

[djsander]

I'm in the process of leaving The Woodlands after 30 years as I don't have a Mercedes, BMW, Maserati, Ferrari, or Porsche. Times have changed in The Woodlands after all these years!

I may be your next door neighbor in Conroe soon! My Hyundai will fit right in! And my taxes will be lower. I'll still keep my golf membership though.

We moved out of Conroe in 2003 to Louisiana for the job. We liked Conroe and and the Houston area, but man the traffic to get anywhere outside of Conroe was a nightmare!

 

[aja8888]

We moved out of Conroe in 2003 to Louisiana for the job. We liked Conroe and and the Houston area, but man the traffic to get anywhere outside of Conroe was a nightmare!

It's worse now in The Woodlands, especially on 242 where we lived. Conroe (southeast and northeast sides off 336) is developing massively. Further north (Willis, New Waverly) even more.

 

[youbet]

I don't know about any other lurkers, but this thread is depressing the heck out of me. 5 million per person just to be considered "starting point" retirement wealthy? By that yardstick, I think I must be close to what's considered "destitute retirement". Best be picking out my spot under the bridge now.

It all about how you perceive "wealthy." In my view, you could live a nice retirement without being "wealthy." You just continue to live a nice middle class lifestyle but without working. Nice.

I think of "retirement wealthy" as you're not working and you're living high. Here in the Chicago area, that takes about a quarter million gross income.

Don't be depressed (I'm not) as a secure middle class lifestyle without working here in the good ole USA is pretty nice in my view. And when you reach the age where you collect SS and perhaps a pension, that lowers the bar on the required investible wealth figure.

 

[TheWizard]

I'm thinking another important aspect about being "wealthy" in retirement is that not only do you not have to worry about spending down your nest egg in retirement but the opposite is true.

This means that your investible assets grow each year, on average, and the longer you live, the bigger that number gets, depending of course on how much you donate and give to offspring each year while you're still alive...

 

[marko]

I'm thinking another important aspect about being "wealthy" in retirement is that not only do you not have to worry about spending down your nest egg in retirement but the opposite is true.

This means that your investible assets grow each year, on average, and the longer you live, the bigger that number gets, depending of course on how much you donate and give to offspring each year while you're still alive...

Well, IMO, that's the difference between wealth and rich, isn't it? . Wealth gets passed on generationally. Rich just stops when you do.

 

[LateToFIRE]

Well, IMO, that's the difference between wealth and rich, isn't it? . Wealth gets passed on generationally. Rich just stops when you do.

Interesting way to put it, but yes, when I think of generational wealth, I think of it not just as the passing down of monies, but also the passing down of character, values, skills, networks, work ethic, in essence: RESOURCES and OPPORTUNITY. Truly, I believe these intangibles are more valuable to "wealthy" people than the money itself because this is the stuff that keeps fueling the financial engine, otherwise the green stuff is gone in one generation.

 

[joesxm3]

Yeah, I love those stories where the guy in the shabby clothes ends up buying a Cadillac and then peels off $100 bills to pay for it (while the other sales people who wouldn't help the guy have to watch.) Classic!

When I was looking for my 2004 Acura I went to the Mercedes dealer. I stood in the sales room for 15 minutes while all the salesmen were busy talking with each other. I finally just walked out. I guess my outfit did not meet their standards, but I had enough in my checking account to buy almost anything on their lot. That was before I learned about interest on my money.

When I finally was ready to buy the Acura the sales guy asked where I was getting my loan. When I said that I was paying cash he said don't lie to me.

I guess my level of stealth must be like a b1 bomber.

 

[joesxm3]

I'm thinking another important aspect about being "wealthy" in retirement is that not only do you not have to worry about spending down your nest egg in retirement but the opposite is true.

This means that your investible assets grow each year, on average, and the longer you live, the bigger that number gets, depending of course on how much you donate and give to offspring each year while you're still alive...

That is a good way of defining wealthy. If your assets reliably grow more than you spend even with not pinching pennies.

 

[emmaswan]

I am reminded of an episode from when I was a brand new lawyer. I was second chairing a trial with the oldest partner in the firm, Mr. Green. As we were walking to the courthouse one day, our opponent pulls up in a shiny black Porsche 911 with the whale tail and flare fenders and the appropriately legal vanity plate. (It was the early 90s). I said to Mr. Green, "Wow, nice car, Richard must be loaded." And Mr. Green replied, "the only thing we can conclude from the evidence before us is that Richard either borrowed a lot of money or spent a lot of money. We cannot conclude that he has a lot of money."

@Gumby, you may have shared this anecdote on another thread several years ago, and it had a huge effect on me as a then-junior lawyer. It's stayed with me ever since!

 

[Qs Laptop]

When I was looking for my 2004 Acura I went to the Mercedes dealer. I stood in the sales room for 15 minutes while all the salesmen were busy talking with each other. I finally just walked out. I guess my outfit did not meet their standards, but I had enough in my checking account to buy almost anything on their lot. That was before I learned about interest on my money.



When I finally was ready to buy the Acura the sales guy asked where I was getting my loan. When I said that I was paying cash he said don't lie to me.



I guess my level of stealth must be like a b1 bomber.

So, this would be an example of NOT stealth wealth.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1678872449813733376

 

[audreyh1]

When I finally was ready to buy the Acura the sales guy asked where I was getting my loan. When I said that I was paying cash he said don't lie to me.

I guess my level of stealth must be like a b1 bomber.

Good one!

 

[rodi]

Ok... Just read the whole thread (all 9 pages) and have a few comments.

We probably fall in the comfortable/comfortable+ category listed on page 2 or 3.

We are pretty stealthy in that we have older cars and do our own home maintenance and yard work. (In fact hubby and younger son, home from college, are putting on new hardy board siding as I type this.)

We don't have a second home. But we do travel... at least one 4 week trip a year, with lots of smaller trips and camping trips tossed in. One of our older vehicles is a ridiculous (in a good way) 2000 Dodge Ram van, aka the scooby van, with a modified higher roof, outfitted for camping, but painted out like the mystery machine. I'm sure some of our neighbors are less than pleased. Does the scooby van count as a second home?

Our networth is higher because we have a paid off house in a very expensive area. Not quite Silicon valley, but since we are "La Jolla adjacent" it's still worth close to half our networth. But it also provides income since we built an ADU before people were doing that... and we have a delightful young lawyer renting from us.

My sister knows our numbers, and I know hers. Hubby's family knows I was able to retire fairly young (52)... But all family knows we are cheap. I can't seem to let go of the purse strings except for travel. And even there, I plan our trips for value.

By global standards we are fabulously wealthy.

By neighborhood standards we are pretty stealthy.

 

[cyber888]

We try to be Stealthy about money, and don't discuss it with family.
I just retired, but have not told my siblings, since they might get some ideas.

My cousin who is like my very close sister knows we're financially independent and she's the only one who knows I retired, because we've been talking about traveling together to several European countries and promised to drive her and her hubby, with DW and I, around Europe.

We're not wealthy but comfortable, and we are able to travel to Europe and take several vacations a year.
But being in NC where there's a lot of people living in mobile homes, our brick home stands out a bit, and we have nice cars because I love to drive fast. But that's it.
I specially don't like to be flashy when traveling, but from past pictures I realize I look like a dorky American tourist with a cheap attire. So, I'll try to avoid looking too poor.

There is a video why Looking Poor is important. He talks about the advantages of looking poor. I just saw this video the other day. Don't know if it works for everyone.

 

[Gumby]

Good video.

 

[cyber888]

Good video.

Thanks

 

[cyber888]

So, this would be an example of NOT stealth wealth.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1678872449813733376

Well, EUA put an arrest notice on the guy. The charge "Being Arrogant in public with his wealth." My relative in Dubai said he got arrested now.

Funny how he brought Millions in Cash and threw cash at the luxury sports car employees.

https://ca.movies.yahoo.com/tiktoker-wanted-uae-flexing-wealth-145000448.html

 

[TheWizard]

I've been pondering the concept of stealth and have decided there's not really much that can be done.
I've had a lot of travel so far this year: 4 weeks in Australia; 3 weeks in Turkey, Zimbabwe, and South Africa; 2-1/2 week road trip in the US; (currently) 3 weeks in UK and Faroes.

So there's some $$ involved with that, but only certain close people know my plans/whereabouts.

My income and investment portfolio is no one else's business, so how would that not be stealth?

I wear old clothes for yard work and nicer clothes when going shopping, out to eat, a Sox game, etc. All perfectly normal.

And I'm not especially wealthy anyway, so any explicit attempts at stealth would be silly...

 

[rwdflynavy]

We are also in the "Comfortable to Comfortable+" category.

We are pretty stealthy with a reasonable house and nice but not super nice cars that are several years old.

We don't travel very much and when we do it isn't super exotic.

People who know us know that I'm retired from the Navy and we live on my pension and VA disability. They probably don't know that my take home from both is about $120K, which allows us to keep growing our $1.2M stash for a while. We are both 55 and we FIREd when we were 49.

We don't talk finances with anyone. My parents had a similar life trajectory (Dad's retired Navy too), so they know how we are doing.

 

[Gumby]

There is an interesting article in yesterday's New York Times style section about stealth wealth. It is probably behind the paywall, but here's the link if you are interested https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/22/style/quiet-luxury-wealth-status.html

Privacy, discretion and to a large extent anonymity are the baseline for stealth wealth. The quiet luxury trope developed to conceal the unvarying truth that the essential status marker is “how much space you take up,” as Mr. Norwich said.

 

[Koolau]

There is a video why Looking Poor is important. He talks about the advantages of looking poor. I just saw this video the other day. Don't know if it works for everyone.

I've finally met my "brother from another mother." We think so much alike it is uncanny. I tried to tell all of this to my BFF who recently departed this world. He always agreed that it was good advice - but he never took it. He is the poster child for the middle person described in the video. His only concern was whether he could make the payment on what ever it was he wanted to buy next. If he could make more money, it allowed him to borrow more, so he took all the overtime he could get.

I hope this young man does well with his YouTube channel. He brings it all down to earth with his three examples of people. We've all seen and know each person. I also love the way he dismisses the uber-weatlthy (the stars and moguls who flash their wealth.) None of us (and none of his audience) will ever be in that group, but those people are unenviable. They have given up much of their freedom to be able to flash their wealth in very circumscribed venues. They would be mobbed (or robbed) if they went to "normal" places - so forget them. Concentrate on making your money make more money. YES!

 

[Humbooster]

I regard myself as a very forgettable person, I just try to "blend in" in every aspect of life. I doubt many people remember me from school except for my close friends that I see every year as I visit the hometown. I only keep in touch with two people from college days. I know my work colleagues were shocked when I left but I just said I was fed up with the job which was quite obvious. My kids know my wife and I have no money worries and can help them out if they ever need us to. They left college debt free and are thankful for that.
We have two old vehicles, 2011 and 2004 and a very modest house. I do not play golf or own a boat so I avoid the country club set and the endless talk about investments, taxes, capital gains etc., that I overhear on the odd occasion at some party or fundraiser that we might attend.

 

[marko]

The guy in the video does a great job of laying out how to avoid the obstacles to growing wealth.

What I believe is unnecessary is living like a poor person once you reach your plateau.

I've often mentioned my grandfather here. He was very, very well off. Mid eight figures. He lived very well until his old age and then started living like a pauper for absolutely no reason at all.

Sat in his 12 bedroom home with every single light off watching TV. Fired his maid, even hocked his dead wife's jewelry at a pawn shop! Torn clothes. Canceled his Life Line because there was a 35 cent "long distance" call to get help. Crazy old coot, but YOU try interceeding! Nothing worse than a paranoid rich old man.

There's a balance. Living in a nice house and driving a nice car is all relative to your NW. Sorry, I know several very wealthy people who DO drive Bentleys, belong to exclusive clubs etc, but they are in the $100MM range. They're not trying to impress anyone but themselves...in fact they don't think about anyone else BUT themselves!

Living like a poor person, doing without is great advice when you are in building mode. Living that way when you should be living in comfort, making your life easy and convenient? No thanks.

 

[Gumby]

I believe that where most people fall short is in the "living rich before actually being rich" area. He captures that concept nicely in his video.

As far as the uber wealthy go, he is right to ignore them. In my opinion, constantly having to be surrounded by security is no way to go through life. In many ways, it seems to me like living in a prison. It may be a very highly gilded prison, but you are still a prisoner who cannot walk freely among your fellow humans.

 

[Ronstar]

Great video. I never thought about trying to look poor. I just continue to dress and act the same as when I was poor.

The guy in the video brings to light an important point. Rich people use money to make more money.

 

[aja8888]

Another good comment he made...."wealth takes time".