Supplement Medicare plan questions

[Rianne]

Why do you want to ignore the shenanigans that MoO partakes in?

The costs for an 85 year old today isn't going to be what you pay when you are 85, particularly for MoO due to their shenanigans.

I was looking for facts, posted by SHIP specific to my state and county which was provided. Not individual experiences and many thanks to a SHIP volunteer who knew exactly where to look. This information is not easy to find in the vast online BS. I'm not arguing some have had bad experiences.

 

[stedmakr]

I was looking for facts, posted by SHIP specific to my state and county which was provided. Not individual experiences and many thanks to a SHIP volunteer who knew exactly where to look. This information is not easy to find in the vast online BS. I'm not arguing some have had bad experiences.

Rianne,
The premiums in the charts are for policies that the public can purchase. If the insurance company has "closed the book" on an existing policy it is not available for purchase. I don't know how to see the rates or annual increases for existing policies that are not available for purchase.

You might want to discuss this issue with a broker (it won't cost you anything) and have your existing policy name and number available. Some brokers have tools that allow them to see annual rate increases for policies that you can purchase. I have no idea if they have this information for policies that are closed for purchase.

Please review the posts by MBSC.

 

[Rianne]

Rianne,
The premiums in the charts are for policies that the public can purchase. If the insurance company has "closed the book" on an existing policy it is not available for purchase. I don't know how to see the rates or annual increases for existing policies that are not available for purchase.

You might want to discuss this issue with a broker (it won't cost you anything) and have your existing policy name and number available. Some brokers have tools that allow them to see annual rate increases for policies that you can purchase. I have no idea if they have this information for policies that are closed for purchase.

Please review the posts by MBSC.

Yes, I see that in FL. Could it not be true of any insurance company? I will speak to our broker to follow-up.

 

[teej1985]

Yes, I see that in FL. Could it not be true of any insurance company? I will speak to our broker to follow-up.

While it's theoretically possible that "all the insurance companies could do this", there's one company with a blatant trend of doing it over and over.

 

[Midpack]

Why do you want to ignore the shenanigans that MoO partakes in?

The costs for an 85 year old today isn't going to be what you pay when you are 85, particularly for MoO due to their shenanigans.

Because we've yet to see anything but anecdotal evidence other insurers don't do the same thing as MoO. There is evidence they do, but from what I can tell others may be less aggressive than MoO - but we don't know that unless I missed something?

Believe me I'd switch now, while we can both easily pass underwriting, if I was reasonably certain I wasn't jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

I am going go talk to another broker to see if they can shed any solid evidence on this.

 

[Texas Proud]

This is an old study (2011) but interesting read...


It does show even back then that older policies raised rates faster than new policies... but no companies were named



It opens a PDF...






https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...usg=AOvVaw3MN-Z7Rc-iA7roblQW8kUv&opi=89978449

 

[teej1985]

Because we've yet to see anything but anecdotal evidence other insurers don't do the same thing as MoO. There is evidence they do, but from what I can tell others may be less aggressive than MoO - but we don't know that unless I missed something?

Believe me I'd switch now, while we can both easily pass underwriting, if I was reasonably certain I wasn't jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

I am going go talk to another broker to see if they can shed any solid evidence on this.

USAA, State Farm, Globe/United American have sold medicare supplement policies for a long time and never created the new random companies to play the game. I haven't seen Blue Cross or Blue Shield do it either, but there is certainly evidence of MoO, Aetna and Cigna doing this, the former being the most blatant.

 

[Davidhelp]

There was maintenance being done for several days and I could not setup 'Easy Pay'.

Today I was able to sign in and pay my first medicare bill of $659.60
I am now setup to pay monthly from then on of $164.90

For period: 07/01/2023 - 10/31/2023
That is $164.90 per month.

 

[Sunset]

There was maintenance being done for several days and I could not setup 'Easy Pay'.

Today I was able to sign in and pay my first medicare bill of $659.60
I am now setup to pay monthly from then on of $164.90

For period: 07/01/2023 - 10/31/2023
That is $164.90 per month.

Nice isn't it.

 

[Sunset]

Wow, we were lucky to have gotten in on the new book by Moo in (IL) I had no idea when we signed up.:

"Outstanding Applications
Mutual of Omaha Insurance Company (CA), United World Life Insurance Company (IL) and Omaha Insurance Company (ND) applications signed by June 25, 2021 and received in the home office on or before June 25, will be processed and provided prior coverage.

"Omaha Insurance Company (IL) ..........Medicare supplement application will be available on the e-App May 25, 2021. Upon its availability, the old underwriting company e-Application will no longer be available. "

 

[Scuba]

MIL is one one of these in Michigan and it has been fine. It think there is a substantial subsidy so going with a different advantage plan or even a supplement would have cost more making it an easy choice

My MIL in GA is a retired teacher on Medicare Advantage. She pays almost nothing for her medical care and I haven’t ever known any docs that won’t take her insurance. However, she lives in a relatively poor rural area so that may be why she hasn’t had a problem accessing docs. Might be different in a major metro area.

 

[Rianne]

This might be a bit off-topic but generally speaking matters IMO. Two of my DB (I have 4 DB) have been insurance brokers for 20+ years. They are brokers for life, car, homeowners, and umbrella policies. They do not sell or broker Medicare supplements which obviously are regulated by the federal govt. for Medicare.

I told the more experienced brother about our discussion about closing the books and raising insurance premiums in general. He said this is absolutely done. All insurance companies are in it for profit. Whether they close books or single out specific areas that are more expensive to raise rates. Example: If there are more claims because you own a Volkswagon, Volkswagon insurance is more expensive. If in a zip code, county, or state that has a high rate of storms, floods, etc, homeowners insurance is expensive or unavailable depending on the company. If there is a cluster of anything that creates more payouts thus higher premiums, insurance companies will charge higher premiums or deny coverage. It is the way of all insurance.

Closing books is one way (and it is legal) to raise rates. And some companies (not one) do this. It is specific to where there are more claims, for whatever reason. Thus, it is very expensive to get homeowners insurance in FL. Many companies will not offer homeowners insurance in FL. for obvious reasons.

 

[harllee]

This might be a bit off-topic but generally speaking matters IMO. Two of my DB (I have 4 DB) have been insurance brokers for 20+ years. They are brokers for life, car, homeowners, and umbrella policies. They do not sell or broker Medicare supplements which obviously are regulated by the federal govt. for Medicare.

I told the more experienced brother about our discussion about closing the books and raising insurance premiums in general. He said this is absolutely done. All insurance companies are in it for profit. Whether they close books or single out specific areas that are more expensive to raise rates. Example: If there are more claims because you own a Volkswagon, Volkswagon insurance is more expensive. If in a zip code, county, or state that has a high rate of storms, floods, etc, homeowners insurance is expensive or unavailable depending on the company. If there is a cluster of anything that creates more payouts thus higher premiums, insurance companies will charge higher premiums or deny coverage. It is the way of all insurance.

Closing books is one way (and it is legal) to raise rates. And some companies (not one) do this. It is specific to where there are more claims, for whatever reason. Thus, it is very expensive to get homeowners insurance in FL. Many companies will not offer homeowners insurance in FL. for obvious reasons.

The main difference in "closing the books" for auto or homeowners and Medicare insurance is that if your auto or homeowners insurance premium goes up you can change to another insurance company. But if your Medicare insurance premium goes up and you cannot pass health underwriting you cannot change to another company, you are stuck with the higher premium. So for Medicare insurance you do NOT want to go with a company known for closing the books. You want to go to a company that does not close the books like AARP UHC.

 

[RetMD21]

My MIL in GA is a retired teacher on Medicare Advantage. She pays almost nothing for her medical care and I haven’t ever known any docs that won’t take her insurance. However, she lives in a relatively poor rural area so that may be why she hasn’t had a problem accessing docs. Might be different in a major metro area.

The state of Michigan retiree plan the my MIL is on has a deal with the state's dominant insurer which has a deal with the big health system that controls 80+% of the market in her county. It works out fine for her. She can't really go elsewhere for healthcare anyway.

 

[Rianne]

The main difference in "closing the books" for auto or homeowners and Medicare insurance is that if your auto or homeowners insurance premium goes up you can change to another insurance company. But if your Medicare insurance premium goes up and you cannot pass health underwriting you cannot change to another company, you are stuck with the higher premium. So for Medicare insurance you do NOT want to go with a company known for closing the books. You want to go to a company that does not close the books like AARP UHC.

Fair. You are saying AARP UHC does not raise rates or does not use closing the books to raise rates? You raise a good point. I asked DB about this as well. His response was are you getting a benefit by switching companies? Medicare makes it difficult to price shop. Even if you could price shop, the benefits could be different for a lower price. Which explains the difference between Medicare Advantage and original Medicare.

I said, so my premiums go up 10%. My original premium cost was $92/month which is what I pay. Thus my premium will be $101.20. Then in 2 or 5 years it goes up 10%. I am now paying $111.32 and so on. I decided the higher premium is worth the benefit. Price shopping in normal insurance (not Medicare) has risks as well. Are you getting the same quality of apples for apples at a better price? It's all about profit. And unless you are lucky or really understand how insurance works, not that you work for a specific company as a broker and defend that company about a specific way or reason they raise rates.

This discussion nails my point. And yes, you can shop for homeowners insurance, but are you getting better coverage? Are everyone's premiums going up for specific reasons (a cluster of claims)?

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/homeowners-insurance-increase-114023.html

 

[harllee]

Rianne, I am not saying that AARP UHC premiums do not go up, of course they do, the premiums go up annually. But AARP UHC has never closed the book here in my state of NC and from what I have read they have never closed the book in any state.

 

[Texas Proud]

Fair. You are saying AARP UHC does not raise rates or does not use closing the books to raise rates? You raise a good point. I asked DB about this as well. His response was are you getting a benefit by switching companies? Medicare makes it difficult to price shop. Even if you could price shop, the benefits could be different for a lower price. Which explains the difference between Medicare Advantage and original Medicare.

I said, so my premiums go up 10%. My original premium cost was $92/month which is what I pay. Thus my premium will be $101.20. Then in 2 or 5 years it goes up 10%. I am now paying $111.32 and so on. I decided the higher premium is worth the benefit. Price shopping in normal insurance (not Medicare) has risks as well. Are you getting the same quality of apples for apples at a better price? It's all about profit. And unless you are lucky or really understand how insurance works, not that you work for a specific company as a broker and defend that company about a specific way or reason they raise rates.

This discussion nails my point. And yes, you can shop for homeowners insurance, but are you getting better coverage? Are everyone's premiums going up for specific reasons (a cluster of claims)?

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/homeowners-insurance-increase-114023.html

Nope... the benefits are the same for each letter plan... IOW an F plan for any of the companies is the same.. so price IS the only difference...


It is NOT hard at all to get the prices from medicare... just go to their site and put in the info and all the plans pop up...


Now, an Advantage plan is a different policy so it is harder to decide what is better... and that is on the insurance companies, not medicare... they do not update their in network Drs etc so you might think on is in but when you call they are not...

 

[Ian S]

Rianne, I am not saying that AARP UHC premiums do not go up, of course they do, the premiums go up annually. But AARP UHC has never closed the book here in my state of NC and from what I have read they have never closed the book in any state.

I've been with AARP/UHC for seven years here in Arizona and no closing of books. I started on Plan F since they didn't offer a plan G; when they started offering Plan G I switched with no problem. At that time the annual savings switching from Plan F to Plan G were significantly more than the annual deductible so it was a no-brainer to switch.

 

[CRLLS]

Nope... the benefits are the same for each letter plan... IOW an F plan for any of the companies is the same.. so price IS the only difference...


It is NOT hard at all to get the prices from medicare... just go to their site and put in the info and all the plans pop up...


Now, an Advantage plan is a different policy so it is harder to decide what is better... and that is on the insurance companies, not medicare... they do not update their in network Drs etc so you might think on is in but when you call they are not...

This is not exactly 100% accurate, likely 95+% IMO. What is true is that every plan offered has to meet a minimum set of benefits. This is shown by those supplement providers that offer gym membership. AARP UHC is one of them. But in my state, they also offer the same "Plan letter" without that perk at a lower price, bigger discounts over a longer period, making direct comparisons very difficult at best, and possibly impossible. All under the same "letter" supplement. It can be deceiving if one blindly follows the

One must also be observant that some companies also offer "select" supplements that have a similar letter but you must use their network for maximum coverage.

Medicare supplements have become much more complicated and convoluted over the years. it is rife with small gotchas that, if one is not cognizant of those, they can easily be thinking they selected the "right" one for them while they really aren't.

I wish that Medicare supplements policies were just based on the Letter and there were not variations in the basic letter-plan benefits. IMO, skip the extras and the network providers.

 

[Texas Proud]

This is not exactly 100% accurate, likely 95+% IMO. What is true is that every plan offered has to meet a minimum set of benefits. This is shown by those supplement providers that offer gym membership. AARP UHC is one of them. But in my state, they also offer the same "Plan letter" without that perk at a lower price, bigger discounts over a longer period, making direct comparisons very difficult at best, and possibly impossible. All under the same "letter" supplement. It can be deceiving if one blindly follows the

One must also be observant that some companies also offer "select" supplements that have a similar letter but you must use their network for maximum coverage.

Medicare supplements have become much more complicated and convoluted over the years. it is rife with small gotchas that, if one is not cognizant of those, they can easily be thinking they selected the "right" one for them while they really aren't.

I wish that Medicare supplements policies were just based on the Letter and there were not variations in the basic letter-plan benefits. IMO, skip the extras and the network providers.

I will disagree a bit... all letters from all providers have to offer coverage that covers the extra 20% in one way or another...


As you mention, some plans have decided to offer other stuff, but that has nothing to do with the medigap option... my AARP plan does not offer gym and other stuff... sure, I could have bought the plan that has it as an attachment for more money... but that IMO is extra insurance that I would be paying for not the medigap plan...


Not really sure about the select... but I think it is the ones with a copay... and if you go to the specified facility you get some kind of discount.. but there is nothing preventing you from going to any facility.. I really do not understand why someone would buy these letters as a ST premium benefit might be wiped out with one major health scare..

 

[CRLLS]

I will disagree a bit... all letters from all providers have to offer coverage that covers the extra 20% in one way or another...


As you mention, some plans have decided to offer other stuff, but that has nothing to do with the medigap option... my AARP plan does not offer gym and other stuff... sure, I could have bought the plan that has it as an attachment for more money... but that IMO is extra insurance that I would be paying for not the medigap plan...


Not really sure about the select... but I think it is the ones with a copay... and if you go to the specified facility you get some kind of discount.. but there is nothing preventing you from going to any facility.. I really do not understand why someone would buy these letters as a ST premium benefit might be wiped out with one major health scare..

Well it is all in the language. Up until recently the AARP plans in my state did not have the option of a no-frills plan. Their plans were simply called Plan F or Plan G etc. They came with "extras" such as Renew Active. When comparing against other insurers' plans they had more benefits than Medicare required as a minimum. When I looked at it, BCBS was the same way. Their plans (some?) had the "Silver Slippers" gym benefit. Again ,there was no option of a plane that only provided the Medicare required benefits.

For the explanation of "Select" plans, here is from Medicare.gov:

What’s Medicare SELECT?
Medicare SELECT is a type of Medigap policy sold in some states that
requires you to use hospitals and, in some cases, doctors within its network
to be eligible for full insurance benefits (except in an emergency). Medicare
SELECT can be offered as any of the standardized Medigap plans. (Go to page
11.) These policies generally cost less than other Medigap policies. However,
if you don’t use a Medicare SELECT hospital or doctor for non-emergency
services, you’ll have to pay some or all of what Medicare doesn’t pay. Medicare will pay its share of approved charges no matter which hospital or doctor you
choose.

Select plans are not standardized from what I can tell. Note that Medicare will cover you regardless of you use the Medigap's network or not. With the select plans, If you go outside of their network, you may have your 20% covered in full, in part or not at all. From what I have read, some may even require preapproval to be covered by a specialist. Again, not covered by Medicare, but by the Medigap provider.

My main complaint is that the lans that Medicare has defined are becoming more and more confusing and diluted. i.e. not standardized. Plan G, Select Plan G and Plan G + Wellness all sound to a novice, similar but have very, very different benefits/coverage. It used to be that a Medigap plan could not question a particular service if Medicare covered it. Of course, there were possibly copays, additional deductibles etc. But every Medigap plan of a particular letter was on the same playing field as the rest. Now that is changing and getting more confusing for people to choose. Call it analysis paralysis or intentional obfuscation by the insurers, it is not good IMO.

 

[teej1985]

Fair. You are saying AARP UHC does not raise rates or does not use closing the books to raise rates? You raise a good point. I asked DB about this as well. His response was are you getting a benefit by switching companies? Medicare makes it difficult to price shop. Even if you could price shop, the benefits could be different for a lower price. Which explains the difference between Medicare Advantage and original Medicare.

I said, so my premiums go up 10%. My original premium cost was $92/month which is what I pay. Thus my premium will be $101.20. Then in 2 or 5 years it goes up 10%. I am now paying $111.32 and so on. I decided the higher premium is worth the benefit. Price shopping in normal insurance (not Medicare) has risks as well. Are you getting the same quality of apples for apples at a better price? It's all about profit. And unless you are lucky or really understand how insurance works, not that you work for a specific company as a broker and defend that company about a specific way or reason they raise rates.

This discussion nails my point. And yes, you can shop for homeowners insurance, but are you getting better coverage? Are everyone's premiums going up for specific reasons (a cluster of claims)?

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/homeowners-insurance-increase-114023.html

There are no difference in between for Medicare Supplement plans of the same letter. Medicare Advantage is a totally different thing.

 

[RetMD21]

I like the Medicare Easy Pay but I wish they wouldn't mail me all those statements telling me that I have a payment coming up.

 

[Rianne]

There are no difference in between for Medicare Supplement plans of the same letter. Medicare Advantage is a totally different thing.

Did you read the post above by CRLLS? This is what's happening.

"My main complaint is that the lans that Medicare has defined are becoming more and more confusing and diluted. i.e. not standardized. Plan G, Select Plan G and Plan G + Wellness all sound to a novice, similar but have very, very different benefits/coverage. It used to be that a Medigap plan could not question a particular service if Medicare covered it. Of course, there were possibly copays, additional deductibles etc. But every Medigap plan of a particular letter was on the same playing field as the rest. Now that is changing and getting more confusing for people to choose. Call it analysis paralysis or intentional obfuscation by the insurers, it is not good IMO."

 

[harllee]

I like the Medicare Easy Pay but I wish they wouldn't mail me all those statements telling me that I have a payment coming up.

I have the easy pay plan and get no statements. Maybe you need to go paperless with Medicare?