Terrible North Miami Beach condo collapse

[brett]

delete

 

[brett]

As a kitty foster parent it is heartbreaking to know the judge denied the permit to allow anyone to try to rescue the cats they knew were still in the building. I know a firefighter tried to get to one of them from the outside but without a rescue involved its so hard to get cats when they are terrified.

My guess is that the judge felt that the lives of the residents and the lives of the firemen/rescue folks were more important that the lives of a cat.

Good call on his part.

 

[sengsational]

They could have given it a few gentle taps from all sides, with a wrecking ball. If it didn't fall, it would be safe enough to grab belongings. That is, if the stairs were passable.

 

[ivinsfan]

They could have given it a few gentle taps from all sides, with a wrecking ball. If it didn't fall, it would be safe enough to grab belongings. That is, if the stairs were passable.

Are you serious or did you forget the head smack icon.

 

[brett]

They could have given it a few gentle taps from all sides, with a wrecking ball. If it didn't fall, it would be safe enough to grab belongings. That is, if the stairs were passable.

Perhaps you could have volunteered to go into that building to retrieve resident's possessions after those 'taps'

 

[omni550]

They could have given it a few gentle taps from all sides, with a wrecking ball. If it didn't fall, it would be safe enough to grab belongings. That is, if the stairs were passable.

I recall seeing videos of bucket trucks retrieving people who were in the remaining (standing) tower, shortly after the other portions collapsed. This makes me think they did not have access to stairways.

Somehow I cannot envision the fire dept delivering those people back to their condemned condos to retrieve anything. Extremely risky for ALL involved.

omni

 

[Brat]

In the PNW there are community disaster programs focusing on a major Cascadia Fault earthquake. The one I am involved with recommends a "go bag" where you stash items such as medications and documents.

 

[Nick12]

My guess is that from now on anybody with the kind of income and money needed to buy such expensive properties will be paying for a more thorough inspection that includes the entire building not just the unit they are purchasing. From what I have read, a simple walk through the underground parking area would have set off alarm bells to somebody who knew what to look for.

2.88 million reduced to rubble. And here I though real estate only went up.

If and when an inspection is done on the condo itself then the asking price can be considered in terms of negotiation or if the condo is offered for sale " as is " then that is another story. An entire walk of the building and inspection process of the property could be a good thing ( don't see that being realistic though ) but if one doesn't like what they see, then the option is to walk away. I think the lure of - oceanfront, palm trees, Florida , never see snow and ice again , cheaper COL, etc compared to some states COL are some of the lures of buyers continuing to buy into their Florida dream and that will not stop.

 

[Amethyst]

Not arguing any of your points. Just wanted to point out something I was familiar with The COL in Miami is higher than the national average.

Per the link to federalpay.org, the 2021 Locality Pay Adjustment for this locality is 23.51%, which means that GS employees in this area are paid 23.51% more then the GS Base Pay Table. https://www.federalpay.org/gs/locality/miami

By contrast, the Baltimore-Washington locality adjustment, which I received while working, is about 30% over the GS Base Pay Table.

Florida is among the few states without an income tax (yet); but that really only benefits people whose income is of the type that gets taxed in other states - that is, ordinary income, or pensions like mine that are considered ordinary income. Property taxes and homeowner's insurance can easily counteract this benefit.

Icheaper COL, etc compared to some states COL are some of the lures of buyers continuing to buy into their Florida dream and that will not stop.

 

[tmm99]

If your condo happens to be right next door to the collapsed building, or some place very close, my guess is that the price od your condo has come down by a lot especially if your condo building is as old, but that's just my guess...

 

[brett]

I would also think that if your concrete condo is 40 plus years old, built prior to the more stringent building codes, that it has also lost some value.

Perhaps just short term.....people forget over time.

 

[tb001]

My guess is that from now on anybody with the kind of income and money needed to buy such expensive properties will be paying for a more thorough inspection that includes the entire building not just the unit they are purchasing. From what I have read, a simple walk through the underground parking area would have set off alarm bells to somebody who knew what to look for.

2.88 million reduced to rubble. And here I though real estate only went up.

Or buyers could have read through the condo association materials. I’ve purchased two homes with a HOA and in both cases looked carefully at historical board notes, reserves, etc… I would be shocked to hear that this was not a known issue in the minutes.

 

[brett]

Or buyers could have read through the condo association materials. I’ve purchased two homes with a HOA and in both cases looked carefully at historical board notes, reserves, etc… I would be shocked to hear that this was not a known issue in the minutes.

Ditto.

Cannot imagine buying a condo or HOA without checking the minutes. Or in the case of a condo having an outside firm review the minutes. It is not just minutes. We had the great fortune to mention to a gentleman at a social function that we were considering buying a condo in a certain building. People in the business know a good builder from one that is not as good.

Turned out he was the managing partner of a law firm that specialized in condo litigation. He was also an engineer. After telling us that all he said was that we might consider shopping around a little more. We well understood his meaning. We later learned that the builder was well known in the city for shoddy work, litigation, etc.

 

[RetiredHappy]

You don't pay $2.88M on a home because the COL is low in the area. Same thing with the condo which we just sold. Most people just assumed that we owned a condo because it was cheap or we moved out of state because COL is lower.

 

[Nick12]

You don't pay $2.88M on a home because the COL is low in the area. Same thing with the condo which we just sold. Most people just assumed that we owned a condo because it was cheap or we moved out of state because COL is lower.

In the collapsed oceanfront condo, 2 bedroom condos were selling for $700K.$700K in SF and NYC won't get one the views, amenities , beachfront, gym, tennis , concierge etc like in Miami Beach. My family member former $1.2 million 1 bedroom apt in NYC had no washer dryer. One had to go to the basement apt building general laundromat to wash and dry clothes.

 

[RetiredHappy]

In the collapsed oceanfront condo, 2 bedroom condos were selling for $700K.$700K in SF and NYC won't get one the views, amenities , beachfront, gym, tennis , concierge etc like in Miami Beach. My family member former $1.2 million 1 bedroom apt in NYC had no washer dryer. One had to go to the basement apt building general laundromat to wash and dry clothes.

My point is that people moved there to get a nice water view. There are much cheaper condos in Miami. $700K can get buy a single family home in the community as well. We all know about SF and NYC COL. If people really want cheap, they move further inland from Miami Beach.

 

[brett]

Our experience is that some people arrive at very unusual conclusions. We are never certain how they got there.

We sold our home and traveled/rented furnished for a year. The market was going down so we then decided to rent. Some people thought that we had spent our home equity traveling and were forced to rent. Others that we could not longer afford a mortgage (even though we did not have one) because we retired early. Going down to one vehicle might also have fueled the suspicions. Rented for four years.

Then we bought into an HOA. Again, some people thought we no longer had the equity to buy a large home in the same area similar to what we owned before when our children were at home.

The bottom line is we no longer wanted all of that. We wanted maintenance free, no stairs, easy care, lock and go so we could move on with our retirement plans to travel extensively-four or five months per year at a minimum. We did not need five bedrooms, dens, rec rooms, and four full bathrooms, etc.

I think people tend to transpose their own habits, biases preferences, etc. onto others without even considering that others may have different lifestyle aspirations.

The equity that would have otherwise been in our home for the intervening five years was put in the market. It outperformed our expectations and greatly outperformed the real estate down market in our area.

 

[RobbieB]

People tend to think that other people are just like them.

 

[Markola]

It pays to build one’s willingness to be independent of others’ opinions, as if it were a muscle.

 

[NW-Bound]

I recall seeing videos of bucket trucks retrieving people who were in the remaining (standing) tower, shortly after the other portions collapsed. This makes me think they did not have access to stairways.

Somehow I cannot envision the fire dept delivering those people back to their condemned condos to retrieve anything. Extremely risky for ALL involved.

omni

There was still at least one stairway accessible to the standing part of the building after the initial collapse. A building that large must have multiple stairways. Many condo tenants were able to walk down the stairs to safety.

The people who were rescued by bucket trucks were in the condos that were half sheared off, and were trapped in the remaining half. Some said it was hair raising that they were only feet from the precipice, looking down 11 stories.

 

[NW-Bound]

A few articles reported that the reason for not allowing condo tenants back in and for taking down the standing part promptly was that they observed that some cracks in the building had enlarged. A column still attached to the remaining part had moved many inches. They also observed movements of the remaining garage ceiling slab.

In other words, there were signs of imminent collapse, and they were not sure the building would be able to stand up to strong winds which were coming.

 

[timo2]

Or there was sufficient water infiltration to dissolve enough limestone to allow the support columns under the pool deck to fail, dropping the deck, with the deck pulling down everything above.

We won't know until everything's cleared and excavation happens.

That is still my preferred speculation. Limestone gets unstable around water, or lack of water. If there are water table issues in south Florida, that's a problem. Limestone does not like change, IMO, as a former geologist.

If it turns out the bedrock is not actually 'bedrock' that would be disastrous for the nearby buildings.

 

[Nick12]

The sense of closure has finally set in. Miami officials have informed the families that the search will go from rescue to recovery of the missing individuals.

 

[NW-Bound]

This Youtuber JeffOstroff has a very good video showing the structure of the building, and some forensic images that provide clues to the cause of the collapse.

Here's a follow up examination of a video taken inside the garage a year prior to the collapse.

 

[Nick12]

This Youtuber JeffOstroff has a very good video showing the structure of the building, and some forensic images that provide clues to the cause of the collapse.

Here's a follow up examination of a video taken inside the garage a year prior to the collapse.

Interesting info! Thanks for sharing.