The college tour redux

[Nords]

I think this is the end of our college tours. I'll have to start a new thread on "college applications".

Hard to believe she's only been home for five days. I was right about her needing a break from being mature & polite! Empty-nesting was sweet and I'm looking forward to resuming it in just 396 days. I'm sure she's looking forward just as much to going back to a college campus. But she's picked up her old routine and school starts in just two weeks. Actually school never really ended… as soon as she finished 11th grade the 12th grade AP teachers piled on the summer projects. She starts a week of "AP Brain Camp" today.

In general, teens lack the neurons and circuits to execute critical thinking. It's interesting to watch our teen try to through the pros & cons. She keeps trying to assign each category of "pro" to just one school, and she struggles to believe that every college could score a 9.5 on the same attribute. For example, every campus in the world probably tries to evoke a sense of "belonging". However she thinks Notre Dame is really the "only" school that tries to make the students feel like they belong. Then we help her to realize that she "belonged" at ND for three whole weeks while USNA was more about teambuilding (and yelling and sleep deprivation) and frankly she has no clue on the rest. Then as she tried to defend ND's "family" concept she realized it bothered her that ND was so full of WASP kids making stereotypic jokes about Asians. Her debate thesis that Notre Dame had the best family ended up concluding that ND might have issues and everyone else might be fine.

Same for another very important part of her life: food. ND has the "best" food (one dining hall looks like Harry Potter's Hogwarts). Then she realized that USNA was better quality but less selection & no buffet lines. Then she remembered her lunch with Rice students (the Owls made her feel as if she belonged!) and she confused herself all over again. She's still a bit skeptical of our assurances that every college is a 9.5 with food.

I've told her that college selection will not be based on Division I athletics. That went over well.

We've agreed for now that there will be no more college trips. I think she's ready to do more analysis, not collect more data.

So far the only concrete issues we've come up with are climate, urban proximity, and USNA's plebe year. Surprisingly Houston seems to add a lot to Rice in a way that South Bend and Pittsburgh do not, and I don't mean just thermally. Every other pro or con else seems to be a wash. We have a lot of reading to do on CollegeConfidential's discussion boards to see what else (if anything) we're missing.

I think we're going to have to tape a long roll of butcher paper to the wall so that she can start scribbling on it.

She's faxed the NROTC recruiters everything they need. She's scheduled one final SAT II test for October. (Rice likes SAT IIs.) Over the next two weeks she's going to try to finish the online common college applications for NROTC (Rice early decision plus ND, Carnegie-Mellon, UVA, & RPI) as well as USNA nomination letters. Then she has to move ahead on essays while the school counselor starts pumping out those official transcripts and she routes the recommendations paperwork. We should hear from NROTC next month and Rice promises early decision announcements in late Nov/early Dec.

After nearly 17 years of shipyards & sea trials, it's hard to believe that this kid is actually spotted on the flight deck and the catapults are warming up…

 

[RunningBum]

studentsreview.com seemed like a decent site too.

 

[LOL!]

Geez Nords, it reads like you are gonna apply to go back to school yourself. What college are YOU thinking of applying to? What's a good major for early retirees? Didn't I read that enrolling help qualify one for group health insurance rates?

 

[Buckeye]

All the white faces definitely gets old. Landing back home in Seattle and seeing faces of many shapes, sizes, and colors is a relief. Living in such a homogenous community as I do now in rural OH (i.e shared economic status, religious persuasion, ethnicity, politics, same schools, same teachers for generations, etc.) made me appreciate the diversity I had grew up with. Previously, I had taken it for granted.

Living among the lack of diversity is an education into how a large part of the US population lives. It's kind of like being in the military. You can never know what it's really like on the inside until you've lived it yourself.

 

[Texas Proud]

Being from Houston I know a very little about Rice.... one of the either good or bad things (based on what you want) is it's size... only a couple of thousand students... I remember hearing once that if you took ALL of Rice's alums.... you could not fill the football stadium... (or maybe it was Michigan's football stadium... it was a long time ago when I heard it)...

Also, what degree is she pursuing? The ranking of the schools would more than likely be different on these.... Rice has a business school, but it is not ranked very high...

One benefit of Rice is that it is right where most of the museums are located... so if she is interested in that...

 

[LOL!]

...
Also, what degree is she pursuing? The ranking of the schools would more than likely be different on these.... Rice has a business school, but it is not ranked very high...

One doesn't have to guess at rankings
Rice University | Rankings

 

[Buckeye]

Correct my previous post to read "........I grew up with."

 

[Nords]

studentsreview.com seemed like a decent site too.

Thanks, it's a good one! I like the survey of whether their students would do it all over again at the same school. Great source of negative comments.

Being from Houston I know a very little about Rice.... one of the either good or bad things (based on what you want) is it's size... only a couple of thousand students... I remember hearing once that if you took ALL of Rice's alums.... you could not fill the football stadium... (or maybe it was Michigan's football stadium... it was a long time ago when I heard it)...
Also, what degree is she pursuing? The ranking of the schools would more than likely be different on these.... Rice has a business school, but it is not ranked very high...
One benefit of Rice is that it is right where most of the museums are located... so if she is interested in that...

As other Houston residents have pointed out, Rice ranks pretty high on engineering & science. ~3800 students (so smaller classes and more profs teaching), NROTC, good academic programs, civil & environmental engineering degrees, tough to get into, and good women's programs. Lots of research & internship opportunities with local businesses. Warmer weather than ND, USNA, CMU, & RPI. Great campus.

Of course another drawback is that it's in Houston and has warmer weather. But NROTC will keep her busy elsewhere during most of the summers.

Yes, she's a museum geek. She must get that from her mother...

Geez Nords, it reads like you are gonna apply to go back to school yourself. What college are YOU thinking of applying to? What's a good major for early retirees? Didn't I read that enrolling help qualify one for group health insurance rates?

Hey, every parent wants to give their kids get a leg up on the mistakes the parents made at that age. My own college search was pretty pathetic-- Carnegie-Mellon because of some high-school projects in their labs, Pitt because it was close to home, Penn State for a high-school field trip, and USNA with a friend. I knew nothing of NROTC. If USNA had offered summer seminars in 1977 then I would've ended up blowing code at CMU instead and struggled to pay the tuition.

I wasn't exactly an informed consumer when I joined the military, and when we visited friends at USNA our highly impressionable teen fell into the same trap. Three years and a summer seminar later, now she knows better.

Too many of our local parents are telling us about their kids who didn't stand on a college campus, take a good look around, and feel that they could belong there. It's especially common when it's a five-hour flight to the Mainland and there are few choices in the islands. Other kids were coerced into Mom & Dad's alma mater. They'd come home a semester or two later, move back into their old bedroom, and end up working at Taco Bell while they're supposed to be working on a new life plan.

I won't make her choices for her. However I think parents can be a big help at filtering out the irrelevant or distracting information. I can help her do the research and I can sift through tremendous volumes of useful (and not so useful) sources for discussions to help develop her critical thinking.

I want her to have done enough research to stop wondering "What if…" When she chooses a major and starts her classes, I want her to know that [-]it's her own damn fault[/-] she made an informed decision. And most importantly to me, I want her to launch from the nest on the first try!

 

[LOL!]

Well, I'm just lucky that you love to write up all this stuff, Nords. Thanks! With your write-ups I get to do a few vicarious college tours and [-]provoke[/-] prompt my daughter to get on with it herself. One thing that has helped us throughout our adult lives is that our best friends have done all this one year before us and we have learned from them just as we learn from you. It all started when we were college freshmen and they were college sophomores, so they

a. Got married a year earlier
b. Had kids a year earlier
c. Taught kids to drive a car a year earlier
d. Sent kids to college a year earlier
e. Dealt with dying parents a year earlier
f. Get kids married off a year earlier
g. Become grandparents a year earlier
h. .....

I also expect to learn a few tidbits from you to push along the college application process, so thanks in advance.

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

Heh-- I found a link to USNA's graphic novel depicting midshipman life for the Millenium Generation. Before clicking on the link below, please refrain from eating for at least three hours and ensure you swallow all liquids. Yeah, sure, our plebe year was just like that too...
http://www.usna.edu/PAO/BZ Adobe PDF.pdf

Wow, they really know how to sell this stuff, don't they? To attract the kind of people that the USNA want to attract, I'd give them the big hairy audacious goals as a pitch as well. Heck, if I were 20 years younger, I'd be signing up just about now.

 

[IndependentlyPoor]

It seems that this year Rice received more than 11,000 applications for 900 places in the freshman class. Congratulations to your daughter for making the cut.

 

[Leonidas]

Then as she tried to defend ND's "family" concept she realized it bothered her that ND was so full of WASP kids making stereotypic jokes about Asians.

This won't be an issue at Rice I don't believe. Houston, if anything, is multicultural to the max, and asians are definitely well represented. As is just about every other ethnic/national group you can think of.

The fusion can get strange at times, and I thought of this thread today when I checked my mail and found a flier for China King Halal Chinese restaurant. No pork or alcohol on the to-go menu, and it advertises "100% Halal (Kosher) meat. All utensils & equipment fulfill Islamic Requirement!"

 

[IndependentlyPoor]

This won't be an issue at Rice I don't believe. Houston, if anything, is multicultural to the max, and asians are definitely well represented. As is just about every other ethnic/national group you can think of.

Not a problem at Rice, but there is that cringe inducing ethnic travesty of a cheer that Texas A&M chants at Rice games. Sorry. No way I am going to repeat it here.

 

[Nords]

This won't be an issue at Rice I don't believe. Houston, if anything, is multicultural to the max, and asians are definitely well represented. As is just about every other ethnic/national group you can think of.

I think that's one of the things that made the Rice campus resonate so well with us. And when you're in the Heartland or on the East Coast you can spot a Hawaii resident from hundreds of yards.

The fusion can get strange at times, and I thought of this thread today when I checked my mail and found a flier for China King Halal Chinese restaurant. No pork or alcohol on the to-go menu, and it advertises "100% Halal (Kosher) meat. All utensils & equipment fulfill Islamic Requirement!"

It can get mighty profitable, too. I forget where I read an article about the rapid rise in revenue from Islamic marketing. Another triumph of capitalism over [-]Communism[/-] fundamentalism.

Not a problem at Rice, but there is that cringe inducing ethnic travesty of a cheer that Texas A&M chants at Rice games. Sorry. No way I am going to repeat it here.

That couldn't possibly be any worse than the stuff that goes on at Army-Navy games... oh wait... Aggies... never mind.

 

[LOL!]

NPR reported recently on another college in Houston that is very multicultural:
Houston Community College Has Global Appeal : NPR

 

[Nords]

Just to cap off this thread and to answer a few PMs: our daughter was accepted "early decision" at Rice on an NROTC scholarship. She still wants to study civil engineering. It's hypothetically possible for her to commission directly into the Navy SeaBees, but it's much more likely that she'll do 3-5 years in the surface fleet before a lateral transfer to the SeaBees.

Yes, she could join the submarine force. After her first five-year obligation she'd be eligible for a retention bonus of at least $25K/year for an additional obligation of 3-5 years, renewable for as long as 20 years. Rumor is that's going to $30K soon. She's sorely tempted (I can understand that), but she'll probably pass up this "opportunity" because they'd never let her leave the sub force for the SeaBees. But she's going to get a few days aboard a sub next summer to help her make up her mind.

NROTC is spending the rest of this week on "indoctrination". That apparently means learning how to put on uniforms, practice marching drill, and do the Navy's physical fitness test. This is a tad different from our parental experience at USNA, but she decided all on her own that she didn't need a service academy to teach her those skills.

Rice starts freshman orientation this Sunday and begins fall semester classes a week later. The week she got her admissions notification she was invited to Rice's Facebook "Class of '14" group and another Rice "Women Engineers" group. These freshman have already gotten to know each other better than I knew my classmates during my first semester, and some of her future classmates are even dating each other. (Talk about ruining the college experience before it starts.) 95% of her admissions admin has been online-- the roommate questionnaire, the freshman English placement exam, the health data form, and even the billing. I've been able to pay Rice directly from the web billpay application linked to our Fidelity 529 account. The only paper she received was the Rice "Welcome to your new dorm" book with photos & bios of her dorm's masters, RAs, and upperclass.

Years ago when our kid started sorting her college search criteria (small schools, engineering, NROTC) she passed right over Rice. It took a few good hard nudges from several members of this board to get me to point her back toward Rice. By the time we visited there we'd already seen USNA, Notre Dame, Carnegie-Mellon, and RPI. The last three were pretty impressive to us parents, but Rice felt much more like home as well as combining the advantages of a big city with the strengths of a small school. Houston summers are no picnic, but they certainly beat the frozen-wasteland winters of the other schools. She felt that Rice blew away the other schools.

I haven't seen any numbers yet, but I've heard that Rice's NROTC unit graduates a disproportionately high number of submariners and civil engineers. The unit has about 30-40 mids but f I understand the admissions & NROTC e-mails correctly, our teen's the only NROTC '14 member who was accepted to Rice. (Other NROTC unit members come from four other local Houston colleges.) She was assigned a sponsor from '13 who did a good job of answering her questions, but that girl resigned from NROTC a few months ago at the end of her freshman year. She would have incurred a service obligation if she'd stayed with NROTC in sophomore year, so she probably decided she'd seen enough. Ironically she and our daughter also decided to be roommates, so our kid should get an earful on both the good & bad of NROTC.

I guess it's also possible that within the next few months our teen could decide that she's also seen enough of NROTC, or civil engineering, and perhaps even Rice. But she's researched the heck out of these topics (as well as taking some high school engineering/construction classes) so we'll see how persistent she's feeling.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

I guess it's also possible that within the next few months our teen could decide that she's also seen enough of NROTC, or civil engineering, and perhaps even Rice.

Or even Houston. Oh, wait. She is acquainted with cockroaches and mosquitoes and living in a steam bath.

Any chance she would get an early start, like John Greaney? 4yrs work in 3 years?

 

[ronocnikral]

houston ain't so bad! the good thing is it minimizes the need for ironing.

i'm looking at rice from my office window now, looks like a bunch of broccoli.

i'm sure your daughter will get settled in just fine. i think it is wise to learn all the indoctrination during ROTC. i could never get the shoe shining down though...

and jan in houston is no picnic as well, especially for those who are used to one season.

 

[Nords]

Any chance she would get an early start, like John Greaney? 4yrs work in 3 years?

That's a good question. The NROTC answer is "no" because they teach one (or possibly two) courses each semester of the four years.

If she dropped NROTC then she'd still be so enamored of electives, studying abroad, and double majors that she'd probably stay until her money ran out. Oddly enough, one of the reasons she's really attracted to NROTC is because they guarantee a job will be waiting for her at the other end of the program. None of that scary resume-writing anxiety and interview angst for her. Plus she's all enthused that the Navy will "let" her live in Japan or Italy for a few years.

I feel that we've supplied enough fuel and launch support for her to achieve orbital parameters. The better she does at conserving the college funds, the more she'll earn as her share. No matter how it all turns out it will be a lifelong learning experience.

 

[Leonidas]

Congratulations to the young lady, and pass on a howdy and welcome to Houston for me. But she's the last one - Houston is now officially full.

The better she does at conserving the college funds, the more she'll earn as her share.

I can't recall if you've explained the details of this deal before. Apologies if you have done so, but I would ask what you worked out with her on her share of the conserved funds.

 

[Nords]

Congratulations to the young lady, and pass on a howdy and welcome to Houston for me. But she's the last one - Houston is now officially full.

If it helps, we made her leave the Prius here...

I can't recall if you've explained the details of this deal before. Apologies if you have done so, but I would ask what you worked out with her on her share of the conserved funds.

It's in this thread: http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f29/supporting-grown-up-kids-after-fire-51569.html#post966644

Our kid may decide in four months that she never wants to have anything to do with NROTC or college ever again, but for now the plan is to help her maximize her tax-deferred savings during the first few years out of college. (In the military that's the TSP as well as her Roth IRA.) Most college graduates don't aggressively fund their retirement accounts for the first few years, and a few dollars there will compound for at least 20-30 years to have the biggest impact.

Her reaction so far can best be described as "freaked out by the fiscal responsibility". She probably needs some more time to think through it and get used to it.

 

[clifp]

I am waiting for the next Nord's book "Emptying the nest for Military Families".

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

If it helps, we made her leave the Prius here...

Awww.... You should have let her drive it there.

 

[Nords]

Awww.... You should have let her drive it there.

If I really wanted her to suffer, I would've let her keep a car in downtown Houston...

 

[Nords]

I've been wrapping up some threads over the months, and I'm very happy to do this one: our daughter is officially off the family payroll.

Nearly seven years ago, she was finishing her high-school freshman year and starting the college search. We were planning a two-week Mainland trip to visit three schools that met her criteria. Long-time poster LOL! made a comment on this college-search thread:
http://www.early-retirement.org/for...carnegie-mellon-and-rpi-28353.html#post528817

I didn't see Rice University in Houston mentioned in this thread.
I think Rice meets all the criteria in spades. The Rice grads that I know are exceptionally well-rounded, smart, unpretentious and good people. Check it out.

I was apathetic about adding yet another college to our high-schooler's list, but LOL's comment was affirmed by several emphatic PMs and e-mails from other Houston residents and Rice alumni. I dutifully passed it on to our daughter.

In October 2008 we finally visited the Rice campus. By now she'd seen enough universities to recognize what she was seeking, and her first step inside their hedges evoked a "Wow!" reaction. By the end of the day she was sure this was "the place", but we'd already seen that infatuation with the U.S. Naval Academy. She realized that Rice's student demographics were a little bit out of her league but she decided to apply as her stretch college.

In 2009 (after junior year) she did campus programs. One week of USNA's notorious Summer Seminar convinced her that she'd seen enough, and three weeks at Notre Dame assured her that she wanted to study civil engineering. Since she wasn't going to USNA she decided to apply for a Navy ROTC scholarship. Once they covered her tuition she decided to apply "early decision" to Rice-- and she was accepted.

It's been an interesting four years, and now she's a graduate. Frankly Rice's academics blew her doors off (I've read her textbooks and heard about all of her exams) but she stuck with it. She just learned that she passed the FE, so she's officially a civil engineer in training for her PE. She enjoyed NROTC, including summer training with all branches of the Navy and Marine Corps. The submarine service was her top choice, but BUPERS assigned her to surface nuclear power (aircraft carriers) and she's happy with that job. She passed her Naval Reactors interviews and after graduation she'll attend another eight weeks of division officer training. The Navy wants their nukes to learn how to drive & shoot before they disappear into the engineroom, so today she reports aboard the USS ROSS (DDG-71). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ross_(DDG-71)) Their homeport is about to change to Rota, Spain, where she's looking forward to two years of Mediterranean deployments and European liberty!

It's been an interesting seven years. Thanks again to everyone who contributed their advice and stories to the search, and mahalo nui loa to all the Rice fans who helped make it happen!