Update on Cord Cutting (Cable TV) 2017 - 2020

[wmc1000]

We are lucky in this respect, as we get our internet via our landline provider - CenturyLink, who we've been with since they acquired the local rural operating company about 15 years ago (with Embarq in between). We have a "Rate for Life" which is guaranteed not to change, and as a result, there are no data caps. We've had it for 6 years now, and it's been great. Granted, we "only" have 11Mb/s DSL which is the max in our location (today), but that is sufficient for our needs allowing the two of us to stream simultaneously.

I'm confident our Rate for Life, and service levels will not be modified (for the worse) as Verizon Fios and Comcast Xfinity also operate in our neighborhood which keep the pressure on. I was offered the Rate for Life just as they began rolling it out when I called them threatening to switch 6 years ago. That lowered our monthly rate to $59.95/month before fees+taxes. At the time, the plan was just guaranteed for 5 years, but has since been modified to lifetime.

We had have Centurylink also with the same speed for the past 7 years and while we don't have guaranteed rate for life our current 2 year rate including taxes and fees is $44.25 - I call to cancel when our rate is close to expiring and have always kept the same rate or lower.

 

[njhowie]

Is that for Internet only? I've been bombarded for the last year by CenturyLink mailings advertising their $45/month price for life deal, up to 40MBPS.

Internet + landline with unlimited calling and all the frills (which we don't use).

I too have seen the DSL "up to" 40 Mb/s pitches, but what we currently have is the max in our area. When we first signed up, it was supposed to be 10, but we were only getting 6 (which was up from the 3 we had previously). After pressuring them, they sent someone out to the CO and fixed it so we were getting 10. Speed test shows that we actually are getting 11. I'm sure that the max is a function of the distance from the CO.

If you go here: https://shop.centurylink.com/MasterWebPortal/freeRange/shop/guidedShoppingStart?bones#module=start you can plug in your address and it will tell you the maximum speed available at your address. I just did mine again, and 10 is (still) max for us.

 

[RunningBum]

Dish will let you hibernate for a few months... called "6 month pause"...we do that with our summer home... cost is $5/month and those months do not count towards your contractual requirement.

Another option is to downgrade to Dish Welcome Pack... $22/month for the programming plus equipment charges and fees.. our total for 4 tvs is about $65/month.

You have to call Dish to get the Welcome Pack... you can't change to it online... same with going on and off of vacation

Yeah, midpack mentioned hibernate too. I'm going to keep closer track this off-season and see just how much I watch anything other than locals. If very little, I'll hibernate next year and get the Tablo. I've downgraded to the Flex Pack. With locals, equipment and taxes that's still $54. Hmm, I see the Welcome pack is not only $12 cheaper, but includes locals? That'd be another $12. I think I'm going to call and change to that. Thanks.

If I get the Tablo, I'd use it all year, and drop locals from Dish. I can live with having recorded content in two places. The only thing for my situation is that I actually pick up OTA from two cities, and Dish provides locals for a different city in another direction. Every once in awhile they'll carry different games, or one will have some alternate program while the other keeps the show I want to see. Not worth $12/month though.

I thought about the hopper (you mentioned that in a subsequent post), but that's more money each month for more equipment. I've ordered the network adapter for my 722 receiver ($25 one time) so I'll have DishAnywhere. I see they have wireless Joeys now, which is helpful because my house coax wiring is not good. I also notice that the hopper does not have an OTA tuner, and I have one OTA channel that I watch local news on daily. I could watch it directly from the TV's tuner, but can't record it from my hopper. That's a big strike against the hopper for my quirky case.

I tried streaming TBS again Friday night for one of the games. It still was kind of choppy, and at one point stopped and wouldn't reload for about 1/2 hour. I've done a bandwidth quality test twice (different days) and it says I should be good. speed = 8.84 and 8.69 mb, latency 21 and 24 ms, jitter 41 and 2 ms. A little high on the jitter the first run. The tool doesn't show packet loss, but I did some pings and got 2 packets lost out of 500. Though every few packets I'd have one a lot slower than the others. ~100ms or more instead of ~20 ms to google.com.

 

[pb4uski]

Yes, Welcome Pack includes locals.... that it the primary reason that we use Dish... none of our locals are OTA because there is a mountian directly behind our house in line with the nearest transmitters. BTW, I'm pretty sure that locals are included for free in all Dish programming packages.... IOW, I don't think that you'll gain any savings by dropping locals.

Our other reason for Dish is that all 4 of our TVs have equal access to the Hopper DVR... so if DW is watching HGTV in the kitchen she can pause it, go up to her sewing room and resume from the same spot. Or when we have visitors in the guest room they can watch live TV or shows recorded on the DVR the same as we can from the living room. While our equipment cost for this set up is $39/month when it is active... it is convenient and DW can use it.

I tried to get her to use PSV but it wasn't intuitive to her and for the trial we only had it on one TV (but if she had been ok with PSV we would have bought a few FireTVs and expanded it to all 4 TVs).

 

[bobandsherry]

We are lucky in this respect, as we get our internet via our landline provider - CenturyLink, who we've been with since they acquired the local rural operating company about 15 years ago (with Embarq in between). We have a "Rate for Life" which is guaranteed not to change, and as a result, there are no data caps. We've had it for 6 years now, and it's been great. Granted, we "only" have 11Mb/s DSL which is the max in our location (today), but that is sufficient for our needs allowing the two of us to stream simultaneously.

I'm confident our Rate for Life, and service levels will not be modified (for the worse) as Verizon Fios and Comcast Xfinity also operate in our neighborhood which keep the pressure on. I was offered the Rate for Life just as they began rolling it out when I called them threatening to switch 6 years ago. That lowered our monthly rate to $59.95/month before fees+taxes. At the time, the plan was just guaranteed for 5 years, but has since been modified to lifetime.

Your bandwidth is OK for standard and HD broadcast, standard usually requires 3.0Mbps, and HD is 5.0Mphs. If 4K ever takes off you won't have enough to pull one show, let alone two as that requires 25Mbps. If you add in DVR functions for multiple shows you probably won't enough bandwidth either. So there probably is the rub, they'll keep your price the same but technology will make it inadequate.

Our internet is included with our HOA assessments, paying $35/mo for 100/100, that should be enough for the foreseeable future. Rates can increase but no more than 5% a year based on contract.

 

[bUU]

So there probably is the rub, they'll keep your price the same but technology will make it inadequate.

And then they'll be bought out by one of the big guys who will impose their pricing scheme.

 

[RunningBum]

Yes, Welcome Pack includes locals.... that it the primary reason that we use Dish... none of our locals are OTA because there is a mountian directly behind our house in line with the nearest transmitters. BTW, I'm pretty sure that locals are included for free in all Dish programming packages.... IOW, I don't think that you'll gain any savings by dropping locals.

Our other reason for Dish is that all 4 of our TVs have equal access to the Hopper DVR... so if DW is watching HGTV in the kitchen she can pause it, go up to her sewing room and resume from the same spot. Or when we have visitors in the guest room they can watch live TV or shows recorded on the DVR the same as we can from the living room. While our equipment cost for this set up is $39/month when it is active... it is convenient and DW can use it.

I tried to get her to use PSV but it wasn't intuitive to her and for the trial we only had it on one TV (but if she had been ok with PSV we would have bought a few FireTVs and expanded it to all 4 TVs).

Most of the other packages say they include locals (except flex), but when you actually go in, the package price is $12 less and you can add locals on for $12. And you can add locals to Flex for that $12. https://www.mydish.com/currentrates shows what I mean, vs. what they advertise at https://www.mydish.com/upgrades/english-packages . Welcome Pack is the only one that has locals included with no additional charge, and no way to get a credit for deleting.

I totally get the appeal of the Hopper for most people. For me, I'm usually alone, and it would be very rare to have a guest watching something I'm not. So I'm happy to have one receiver, with the same HD signal distributed to two other rooms with HDMI. I can easily pause and switch rooms and resume in another room. In my sports viewing den, I have TV1 going to the main TV in HD, TV2 going to a smaller TV in SD, and OTA on the 3rd. I can swap things around with very little trouble (mostly just changing inputs, or flipping an A/B switch for SD/OTA) and put as many as I want OTA. I've just got a quirky setup that the 722 works really well for. SD on the second TV isn't ideal, but usually it's just a game I'm keeping track of while I focus on the big TV. I looked at switching to Directv a few years ago but it didn't have the specific capability I wanted. I doubt it'd work with another person here regularly, though if the network adapter gives my DishAnywhere as it should it could work.

 

[njhowie]

Your bandwidth is OK for standard and HD broadcast, standard usually requires 3.0Mbps, and HD is 5.0Mphs. If 4K ever takes off you won't have enough to pull one show, let alone two as that requires 25Mbps. If you add in DVR functions for multiple shows you probably won't enough bandwidth either. So there probably is the rub, they'll keep your price the same but technology will make it inadequate.

Thanks for the info.

We have no particular affinity for HD (forget 4K), even though our big screen plasma TV is HD capable...we still even have a couple flat-screen tube TVs in the basement with built-in VCR (LOL!) which we've added Roku boxes to. We recently downgraded our Netflix because we refused to pay for their price increase. So we downgraded from the HD to SD plan, lowering our monthly rate even below what it was prior to the increase and don't notice any difference.

 

[Dawg52]

Thanks for the info.

We have no particular affinity for HD (forget 4K), even though our big screen plasma TV is HD capable...we still even have a couple flat-screen tube TVs in the basement with built-in VCR (LOL!) which we've added Roku boxes to. We recently downgraded our Netflix because we refused to pay for their price increase. So we downgraded from the HD to SD plan, lowering our monthly rate even below what it was prior to the increase and don't notice any difference.

I've used the SD plan and it's not bad at all. But not long ago I purchased a 4k tv and wanted to try Netflix's 4k plan. I can certainly see the difference there but then again there is not a ton of 4k content. I only subscribed for a couple of months at a time so the premium price doesn't bother me much. Usually after a month or two I run out of stuff I like to watch anyway.

 

[Chuckanut]

I read that as trick their customers.

?

What trick? The fee structure is pretty well spelled out on the website.

 

[GTFan]

We're keeping our Tivo Roamio + 3 Minis for whole-home DVR with Comcast. I have to pay Comcast for HSI anyway, cable channels add about $50/mo. to the bill (all channels + HBO). The nice thing about using CableCARD is that you don't pay any rental fees to Comcast. I agree that Tivo's days on cable are probably numbered since all the major cableCos are moving towards proprietary IPTV delivery to get them off of the linear channel delivery model (makes better use of the bandwidth they have). Plus we got hosed by the FCC, which bailed on a card replacement standard. Eventually CableCARD and QAM channels will go away but I think it will take 4-5 years easy for this to happen because of all the legacy equipment out there.

My issues with going streaming are:
- have to sub to multiple services/apps instead of one system
- video trickplay (FF/REW/skip) doesn't work nearly as well as a DVR, and in Tivo's case we have automatic comsklp on the major channels with a program called kmttg
- you don't always get first-run stuff that you have on cable unless you sub to a live TV package, and then the DVR functionality is limited compared to Tivo
- did I mention comskip? Often unavailable on streaming or you have to pay extra to watch current stuff without commercials

But the biggest reason I'm sticking with Comcast + Tivo is sports, there is no one streaming package that replaces what I have now.

 

[bobandsherry]

We're keeping our Tivo Roamio + 3 Minis for whole-home DVR with Comcast.

I have same setup including the minis, but have Spectrum as my cable provider. I've found no streaming option that gives me even a close user experience as well as this setup.

 

[ncbill]

We're keeping our Tivo Roamio + 3 Minis for whole-home DVR with Comcast. I have to pay Comcast for HSI anyway, cable channels add about $50/mo. to the bill (all channels + HBO). The nice thing about using CableCARD is that you don't pay any rental fees to Comcast. I agree that Tivo's days on cable are probably numbered since all the major cableCos are moving towards proprietary IPTV delivery to get them off of the linear channel delivery model (makes better use of the bandwidth they have). Plus we got hosed by the FCC, which bailed on a card replacement standard. Eventually CableCARD and QAM channels will go away but I think it will take 4-5 years easy for this to happen because of all the legacy equipment out there.

My issues with going streaming are:
- have to sub to multiple services/apps instead of one system
- video trickplay (FF/REW/skip) doesn't work nearly as well as a DVR, and in Tivo's case we have automatic comsklp on the major channels with a program called kmttg
- you don't always get first-run stuff that you have on cable unless you sub to a live TV package, and then the DVR functionality is limited compared to Tivo
- did I mention comskip? Often unavailable on streaming or you have to pay extra to watch current stuff without commercials

But the biggest reason I'm sticking with Comcast + Tivo is sports, there is no one streaming package that replaces what I have now.

Don't forget Quickmode (2x playback)

It's now my favorite Tivo feature (most scripted TV is paced so slow...)

 

[Chuckanut]

Don't forget Quickmode (2x playback)

It's now my favorite Tivo feature (most scripted TV is paced so slow...)

I thought Quickmode was30% speed increase with the voices the same (no chipmunk voices).

A friend uses it to watch pre-recorded sports events. FF throught the commercials and engage Quickmode and a three hour game is done in a bit over an hour.

 

[NoMoreJob]

We're keeping our Tivo Roamio + 3 Minis for whole-home DVR with Comcast. I have to pay Comcast for HSI anyway, cable channels add about $50/mo. to the bill (all channels + HBO). The nice thing about using CableCARD is that you don't pay any rental fees to Comcast. I agree that Tivo's days on cable are probably numbered since all the major cableCos are moving towards proprietary IPTV delivery to get them off of the linear channel delivery model (makes better use of the bandwidth they have). Plus we got hosed by the FCC, which bailed on a card replacement standard. Eventually CableCARD and QAM channels will go away but I think it will take 4-5 years easy for this to happen because of all the legacy equipment out there.

My issues with going streaming are:
- have to sub to multiple services/apps instead of one system
- video trickplay (FF/REW/skip) doesn't work nearly as well as a DVR, and in Tivo's case we have automatic comsklp on the major channels with a program called kmttg
- you don't always get first-run stuff that you have on cable unless you sub to a live TV package, and then the DVR functionality is limited compared to Tivo
- did I mention comskip? Often unavailable on streaming or you have to pay extra to watch current stuff without commercials

But the biggest reason I'm sticking with Comcast + Tivo is sports, there is no one streaming package that replaces what I have now.

All good points!

What works or doesn't often comes down to preferences for channels and features. We have an antenna for all the major networks with a TiVo Roamio OTA DVR for recording and subscribe to YouTube TV streaming to fill in the gaps - mainly sports. We're fortunate to live in an area where an antenna easily pulls in all five major OTA networks. We use the antenna + TiVo about 80% of the time because of many of the reasons you state (LOVE skipping entire commercial breaks when available!).

We don't find having two systems (antenna and streaming) to be inconvenient, especially since we're watching just one most of the time and it's the one with the most functionality (antenna+TiVo).

It sounds like the big difference between you and us is that we don't require as many sports channels. YouTube has a lot but certainly not as many as available with cable. We actually have more sports channels available with YouTube TV than we had with our previous cable provider because we subscribed to a fairly skinny package (not cheap but skinny!).

I'm just happy to have so many options! Feeling 'stuck' with a cable provider is not a good feeling, especially when they are using every trick in the book to extract extra revenue from you. The day I was able to cut the cable and have a better and larger selection of programming for 1/2 the cost (cable + internet) was a very good day indeed!

 

[audreyh1]

Your bandwidth is OK for standard and HD broadcast, standard usually requires 3.0Mbps, and HD is 5.0Mphs. If 4K ever takes off you won't have enough to pull one show, let alone two as that requires 25Mbps. If you add in DVR functions for multiple shows you probably won't enough bandwidth either. So there probably is the rub, they'll keep your price the same but technology will make it inadequate.

Our internet is included with our HOA assessments, paying $35/mo for 100/100, that should be enough for the foreseeable future. Rates can increase but no more than 5% a year based on contract.

FWIW we’re doing fine with 4K uktra HD on 20Mbps.

 

[audreyh1]

I've used the SD plan and it's not bad at all. But not long ago I purchased a 4k tv and wanted to try Netflix's 4k plan. I can certainly see the difference there but then again there is not a ton of 4k content. I only subscribed for a couple of months at a time so the premium price doesn't bother me much. Usually after a month or two I run out of stuff I like to watch anyway.

Amazon Video has quite a bit of 4K content. We’ve really been enjoying it.

Quite a bit of Netflix stuff we’ve been watching has been 4K.

Of course our new 4K TV has been making even the HD content look fab.

 

[audreyh1]

I guess I don’t get all the TIVO or DVR stuff. Sounds like being back on Cable again.

None of the content we watch has commercials and can be watched through Apple TV with full instant timeline control.

We’re not watching OTA broadcast nor any of the typical cable channels.

Of course we watch no sports and clearly that is a major issue for some.

 

[retired1]

Signed up with Youtube TV 2 days ago to watch March Madness NCAA action. Being in Chicago, can't ignore Loyola BB action I have Roku stick and Amazon fire stick (AFS). Youtube TV works great with Roku... launch app on the phone and project on Roku. BUT... The AFS does not. Finally found a way to add Youtube TV to AFS... not happy with it though. Tried Sling ($20/mo) in the past but quality wasn't good enough.

 

[bobandsherry]

I guess I don’t get all the TIVO or DVR stuff. Sounds like being back on Cable again.

Yep, that's it exactly. And because of the great user experience I'm willing to pay my $70/mo for cable service. I get free Netflix (TMobile customer offer) which I rarely use, also have Amazon Prime Video service and also rarely use that. I'm find myself still wanting the more traditional channels and shows.

I figure if I did all the jumping through hoops with streaming options I'd save maybe $25/mo, maybe. My son and daughter are cord cutters, after using their set-up (Roku for one and AppleTV for the other) I find that user experience with my Tivo set-up is worth the price of admission ($25/mo) for me, I'll find someplace else to save the $30. But I already have sunk cost of Tivo (5 years ago), may be different story if I was to buy all the hardware now.

 

[bobandsherry]

FWIW we’re doing fine with 4K uktra HD on 20Mbps.

I bet if you test it you'll find you are getting slightly better than 20. I know with my 100/100 I get 115/115. However Netflix recommends 25 for 4K. So dunno, but as long as it's working that's great.

 

[audreyh1]

I figure if I did all the jumping through hoops with streaming options I'd save maybe $25/mo, maybe. My son and daughter are cord cutters, after using their set-up (Roku for one and AppleTV for the other) I find that user experience with my Tivo set-up is worth the price of admission ($25/mo) for me, I'll find someplace else to save the $30. But I already have sunk cost of Tivo (5 years ago), may be different story if I was to buy all the hardware now.

We didn’t jump through hoops to set up streaming options - it was extremely straightforward and just meant connecting an AppleTV to our receiver. A few clicks and we were rolling.

If someone prefers traditional channels I can certainly understand the other approach would appeal.

I love the natural on demand performance if a streaming service like Netflix or Amazon Video. To me that’s a major benefit. So it’s a bit headscratching to me to hear people talking about DVRs and whether they can fast-forward through on-demand content.

 

[audreyh1]

I bet if you test it you'll find you are getting slightly better than 20. I know with my 100/100 I get 115/115. However Netflix recommends 25 for 4K. So dunno, but as long as it's working that's great.

Our tests showed 21Mbps, so it’s barely better.

Our conclusion- that the recommended rates are conservative.

I notice a couple of streaming services had lower bandwidth recommendations than Netflix.

Different services have different compression algorithms so that’s part of it.

Whatever - the results are brilliant.

 

[bUU]

I guess I don’t get all the TIVO or DVR stuff. Sounds like being back on Cable again.

Many of us find that TiVo + Cable is the best option, when all considerations that we care about are taken into account. If the only consideration is to not have to spend much money, discussions of this sort won't make sense: They make sense, rather, when trying to find the best balance between spending money, enjoying available content, and convenience; and even then it depends on the personal preferences of the analyst vis a vis enjoyable content.

 

[njhowie]

Many of us find that TiVo + Cable is the best option, when all considerations that we care about are taken into account.

Tivo + OTA in my case - especially when lifetime subscription was included for free with my $200 Roamio OTA.