Update on Cord Cutting (Cable TV) 2017 - 2020

[RonBoyd]

RB,

Guess that is my point ... they (I used the word box as a former aerospace guy) are morphing, some overlapping purposes.

I understand that tuners tune - also, odd as it is, my "cheap" 70" Vizio does not have a tuner

So, still have two basic options, right?

1. The OTA tuner/DVR/etc box receives OTA and sends signal to the TV via HDMI
2. The OTA tuner/DVR/etc box receives OTA and sends signal to the router via ethernet or perhaps even wirelessly where it can be shared within the field of that router to any device

In my case, I would have an OTA antenna, coax to the OTA box (tuner or enhanced device like Tivo, Silicon Dust, Tablo), HDMI to TV or ethernet to router. Can then select OTA via the HDMI selector, or have the OTA input show on the streaming device (I have Apple TV box). Many folks already have a streaming device, so this latter approach is pretty transparent and doesn't require switching HDMI inputs (not a big deal, but ....).

I guess to get it all straight in my mind, I need to separate all these things.

The Tuner is a separate entity that only converts the signal from the Antenna for use by the TV. It can be combined with another device or a completely separate device. "Built-in" would include any device that needs a TV signal to do it's job -- a TV, TIVO, Tablo.

A DVR (Digital Video Recorder) is exactly what it sounds like -- a device that records programs -- like the ol' VHS. This can be a device specific to that purpose or simply a hard drive on your computer (with needed software). PlayOn, which is purely recording only, is one of my favorites in this category.

A "streaming" device is what is needed to receive programming over the Internet -- ROKU, Shield, etc.

SiliconDust takes some further explanation. They are in business primarily to make and sell tuners. In the past year, they recognized the opportunity in the Cord Cutter area. They developed a program called HDHomeRun. This uses your computer to connect directly to their tuners (wired or wireless) so you can watch local programming on your computer (or mobile device). The DVR portion of HDHomeRun records to your computer or the cloud. They have in the last several weeks added streaming networks on a subscription basis.

Plex (and its parent, KODI) and SageTV are similar to HDHomeRun and is beyond the space here to explain simply. It is best to go to their respective web site or User Forum to fully understand.

Yes, there is a lot of players (or should I say actors?) in this area and it's very easy to become confused. Each of them (including the biggies AT&T and Verizon) each have their own spin on what they say they can do.

 

[NoMoreJob]

Personally I'll sacrifice some functionality/convenience to keep things less expensive and less complicated. Things are changing so quickly in this area that I'd rather spend half as much or less and get 80% of the functionality/convenience and then be ready to change with the technology rather than feel stuck with what I have due to the investment (in time and/or energy and/or money) I've made in my particular solution. It's not a hobby for me, it's a way to conveniently receive the desired programming at a considerably lower price.

 

[RunningBum]

Funny Story - I’ve been talking to a family member that just retired about YouTubeTV - how it is cheaper and has a DVR - so when they stopped by for a visit - I fired up the Roku and put on a baseball game - she commented “It looks just like regular TV!”

I didn’t know what to say - I wonder if some people think streaming would be grainy?

I put a football game on my Fire stick with 25MB internet last night to compare to Dish satellite. When I run speed tests I get close to 25MB and low latency and jitter. The quality just isn't good. It's a bit choppy, like the frame rate is low, perhaps. Not smooth like viewing through Dish or OTA. With baseball, maybe you can't tell as much, or maybe you have a better connection.

My streaming is not "just like regular TV". I'm not giving up satellite this year. Rumors are we may get fiber here in 2019. I'll check it out again then.

 

[RunningBum]

I also like jumping around between games, and using a streaming device does not make that easy. I have to exit one game, and go find the other game I want in a menu of selections. That's if both are from the same provider, like ESPN. If I want to jump between ESPN and Fox Sports, like I did last night, I had to go between the two apps, and find and load the new game. Much more work than jumping between two stations on Satellite. Granted, I have to know the channel number, or else page through the guide, but I usually know the channel, and I don't lose the current game I'm watching until it actually switches to the new, as the current stays in a little box in the corner of my guide. No comparison on ease of use. Satellite is much better. I can even run my OTA through the satellite box so I don't have to switch inputs if I want an OTA channel.

 

[ncbill]

Interesting thread!

My 9 year old OTA DVR solution using a PC running linux & an open source solution called MythTV has begun to hang randomly & I cannot pin point the issue. I think some connection is getting flaky on the motherboard, so it is time to consider a new solution.

The easiest would be to build/buy a new pc and install mythtv, but we now want to watch from two TVs, and the mythtv doesn't play well with off the shelf streaming devices like Roku. So, we'd have to build a front end using a small computer. I've tried the Raspberry PI 3, but it isn't without issues. I'd rather be able to use a ROKU or a smart-tv app.

Right now, I'm testing out Plex DVR running on my desktop PC & using Roku to stream the recordings to the TV. It isn't as slick as Mythtv, but is workable. If we go the plex route, I'll buy a nvidia shield to act as the DVR/media center.

The features I miss most are:
- the 30 second forward skip.

- Commercial Skip: Plex has a way to get rid of commercials, but since it cuts out the commercial from the video, it sometimes gets rid of pieces of programming by mistake too. Mythtv puts markers around commercials so you can skip to the next marker & rewind if the commercial-skip made an error.
- Fast forward / Rewind : In mythtv, you can see the video stream by in high speed like you would on a DVD, but not so with Roku/Plex.

I have to investigate Kodi since it has a mythtv plug-in.

SageTV has been acquired by Google, so I am unsure of what its current status is.

Easiest is to wait until Tivo's Thanksgiving sale.

Last year I bought a Roamio OTA (4-tuner) w/ lifetime service for $199.

Add a Tivo Mini for the other TV.

 

[RonBoyd]

Easiest is to wait until Tivo's Thanksgiving sale.

Last year I bought a Roamio OTA (4-tuner) w/ lifetime service for $199.

Add a Tivo Mini for the other TV.

I am not that familiar with TIVO -- I have never been convinced of its value (although, I have never researched it in any way). So excuse me if I am way off base.

I notice that the current price is $399. In what way is it better/cheaper than say Plex -- which looking at the TIVO website does the same thing? (Without the hardware, btw... assuming one already has a computer.)

 

[NoMoreJob]

Easiest is to wait until Tivo's Thanksgiving sale.

Last year I bought a Roamio OTA (4-tuner) w/ lifetime service for $199.

Add a Tivo Mini for the other TV.

Good tip, that's a great deal!

How do the TiVo Mini and TiVo interface? Wired or wirelessly?

 

[mpeirce]

Good tip, that's a great deal!

How do the TiVo Mini and TiVo interface? Wired or wirelessly?

Wireless doesn't work well. You connect with either traditional wired ethernet or MOCA , which is ethernet over coax.

Moca is more useful than it seems since it runs over the same cabling as cable TV service. Many people have this in their house.

I have a moca connection between a TiVo Bolt upstairs (it gets a good over the air signal up there) and the family room TiVo Mini. It just works.

My brother tried a similar setup with WiFi in his apartment (no cabling available there) and it worked OK, sometimes, but not really. Apparently TiVo doesn't compress the video as much as other options and WiFi can't really handle it. Stick to ethernet or moca if you have TiVo.

 

[NoMoreJob]

Wireless doesn't work well. You connect with either traditional wired ethernet or MOCA , which is ethernet over coax.

Moca is more useful than it seems since it runs over the same cabling as cable TV service. Many people have this in their house.

I have a moca connection between a TiVo Bolt upstairs (it gets a good over the air signal up there) and the family room TiVo Mini. It just works.

My brother tried a similar setup with WiFi in his apartment (no cabling available there) and it worked OK, sometimes, but not really. Apparently TiVo doesn't compress the video as much as other options and WiFi can't really handle it. Stick to ethernet or moca if you have TiVo.

I have an attic antenna with coax running from it a distribution box where it splits to 4 TVs. One of those TVs is in the family room and it has a TV Roamio OTA 1TB DVR. Can I use the existing coax to establish a Moca connection between the family room TiVo and a TiVo Mini on one or more of the other 3 TVs?

 

[explanade]

Yes TiVo has built in MOCA. Otherwise you’d need MOCA adapters.

You just have to connect the main Tivo to Ethernet.

 

[walkinwood]

I also have a MythTV server, and have been using a Roku unit with the Plex client to watch MythTV recorded shows. I'm running the Plex server software simultaneously with MythTV server software. No conflicts. I do run mythlink.pl to link the Plex directory with the MythTV shows. You can check it out here: https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythlink.pl . I agree that fast forward using the Plex client is poor.

I can send you the exact mythlink.pl options I use if you're interested.

I used to use Kodi with the MythTV plugin running on a Raspberry Pi, but wanted to reduce the number of set top boxes to one. I repurposed the Raspberry Pi to run Pihole on my network, and it's working very well for that.

Thanks for the offer Jim. If I decide to build another mythtv box, then I'll definitely take you up on the offer.

 

[walkinwood]

SageTV was acquired by Google about 7-8 years ago. However, a couple years ago, they decided to abandon it. It is now open-source and has a pretty large and knowledgeable user group. (It has been my "main" OTA system for over ten years.) A visit to the SageTV User Forum will get you up-to-date -- https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/

TBH, after reading your post, SageTV would be just what you are looking for and you seem to have the expertise to implement it. (Not that it take that much knowledge.)

Thanks Ron. I'll check that out.

 

[NoMoreJob]

Yes TiVo has built in MOCA. Otherwise you’d need MOCA adapters.

You just have to connect the main Tivo to Ethernet.

Why do I need the main TV connected to ethernet? My goal is to share the TiVo guide and recorded OTA shows to my other TVs.

 

[explanade]

Tivo requires an Internet connection to download the guide.

On older models, they used to have modems and you had to connect a phone line.

There are other Tivo services you get, for instance the ability to stream Tivo recordings to phones and iPads through the Tivo mobile app.

But basically, an ethernet connection enables TCP/IP through the MOCA network.

 

[NoMoreJob]

Tivo requires an Internet connection to download the guide.

On older models, they used to have modems and you had to connect a phone line.

There are other Tivo services you get, for instance the ability to stream Tivo recordings to phones and iPads through the Tivo mobile app.

But basically, an ethernet connection enables TCP/IP through the MOCA network.

Thanks. I opened a chat with TiVo and discovered that because I have fiber internet I need to 'escalate' my inquiry by calling them. This came up when I asked about the filter they picture in their diagram on the internet coax connection. I have no coax with fiber internet, just ethernet in my house. I'll probably wait until tomorrow to call.

 

[ncbill]

I am not that familiar with TIVO -- I have never been convinced of its value (although, I have never researched it in any way). So excuse me if I am way off base.

I notice that the current price is $399. In what way is it better/cheaper than say Plex -- which looking at the TIVO website does the same thing? (Without the hardware, btw... assuming one already has a computer.)

Tivo is a standalone solution - no need to run a server, just a box that you plug into your TV via HDMI.

 

[Chuckanut]

I

I notice that the current price is $399. In what way is it better/cheaper than say Plex -- which looking at the TIVO website does the same thing? (Without the hardware, btw... assuming one already has a computer.)

Well for starters my Tivo Roamio OTA box works reliably ($300 for new one and $200 for the refurbished other one, including lifetime guide, but no 4K). I have tried Plex and have had problems with it losing the connection to my computer, freezing up and other annoying things. I finally gave up on it. My Tivo works 99.9% of the time. When it doesn't, a restart usually fixes the problem.

Plex probably does more with more types of media, but most of what it does I am not interested in.

The Tivo does what I want and does it very well: records shows, plays back shows, has multiple recording options, buffers the four tuners so I can stop a show I am watching walk away for up to 30 minutes and come back to where I was, it has skip-mode that works with some popular shows and allows me to skip commercials, FF, RW, etc. etc. etc. It is easily used by others in my household - very important.

FWIW, the parts most likely to fail (fan, disk drive, power supply) are easily repairable. Check out the Weakknees website: https://www.weaknees.com/ No, I don't know why they gave it that name.

Note: I can remember only one time in the past two years I needed to use all four tuners, and it's nice to know that they are there. IMHO, two are not enough, at least three. And, better four for the once every two years conflicts.

 

[MichaelB]

Found a price increase notice from DIRECTV Now this morning in my email. Price going from $35 to $40 per month for the "Live a Little" package, effective 10/10. They highlight "True Cloud DVR" as an enhancement.

 

[explanade]

Verizon says home 5G service will be 300 Mbps to 1 Gbps, single second latencies and no caps or throttling whatsoever.

https://arstechnica.com/information...70month-300mbps-to-1gbps-speeds-no-data-caps/

If nothing else, maybe this will force Comcast to drop their caps, which would be good for streaming.

 

[Chuckanut]

A bit of competition would be nice.

 

[bloom2708]

My in-laws recently moved. They wanted a cheaper streaming service. We have had Playstation (Sony) Vue for 2.5 years. Very happy with it. Their one requirement was ALL the local channels had to be there. We have all except ABC for some reason on Vue.

They are testing out Hulu Live. All the locals are there for $39.99/month. The Vue interface (Fire TV) is much better. Hulu looks like a computer screen layout was transferred to the TV. (It was I think).

The font sizes are very small on Hulu Live/Fire TV. No way to enlarge for old eyes.

They are still testing. DirecTVNow does not have the locals. Vue is missing ABC. SlingTV and Philo have no locals. They have a FireTV, so no way currently to try YouTubeTV.

Vue still offers the best value proposition, but it is $10 more for a similar package. You can always authenticate to the ABC app, but no local news/shows yet with local ABC missing here.

Lots of options and things to consider.

 

[txtig]

I also like jumping around between games, and using a streaming device does not make that easy.

I dropped AT&T U-verse TV and went with a streaming service (Vue). Switching between games was one of my concerns too. It definitely isn’t as easy as traditional TV, but there are some options.

The Vue app on my Fire TV does allow me to switch back and forth between two stations with just one button. Doesn’t help if you’re trying to watch more than two games, but at least it’s something.

Also, I sometimes use the ESPN app if I want to watch multiple games that are all being broadcast on ESPN. It takes a few clicks to switch to a different game, but easier than switching to a different app.

This past weekend, I really wanted to watch both the LSU and Texas A&M games, so I drug a second TV to my living room and watched both simultaneously. I joked with DW that we should permanently add four more screens to the living room. I don’t think she was too enthusiastic about that option.

 

[bUU]

If nothing else, maybe this will force Comcast to drop their caps, which would be good for streaming.

"Don't expect that things will change until things change." I could not count the number of online posters that declared that FiOS would "force Comcast to..." (insert action here - lower prices, become more competitive, etc.) Instead, FiOS ended up costing just as much as Comcast, and provided only slightly better service to the small minority of the nation that were blessed by Verizon to be within its FiOS footprint. As a matter of fact, I think we can guess what this means:

Verizon said its 300Mbps to 1Gbps download speeds are achieved with "deep fiber resources throughout the network"

It means that there will be yet another blessed footprint, and so again the deployment of the service will provide a bonus for that small portion of the customer base, not enough to be much more than annoyance to Comcast. Surely not enough to disrupt their business model.

 

[bobandsherry]

Verizon says home 5G service will be 300 Mbps to 1 Gbps, single second latencies and no caps or throttling whatsoever.

https://arstechnica.com/information...70month-300mbps-to-1gbps-speeds-no-data-caps/

If nothing else, maybe this will force Comcast to drop their caps, which would be good for streaming.

I'll drop a C Note on the table and wager that even befoee 5G gets critical mass it will have caps and/or throttling. 4G came in under same pretence, would solve all the worlds problems and be unlimited. We all see where we are today.

 

[MJ]

Since I've been back to the states, these past 3 years, I only got internet and found various ways to get to free shows including through Roku which came free when Spectrum was offering it as part of their monthly TV service which I cancelled within 2 weeks. Recently, I subscribed to their TV Choice plus local channels for $25 including tax. I wanted reliable CNN access. I found 95% of the old shows being offering boring and of poor quality. I also was not used to having to waste so much time on advertising. I cancelled the service at no cost to me. I did notice that the CNNGo Spectrum on Roku continued to be accessible even after cancelling the TV service. so that is a plus SO FAR. If it stops be accessible, i'l just subscribed to CNN directly for less than $50 a year.