Update on Cord Cutting (Cable TV) 2017 - 2020

[bUU]

Of course it's better if you run Ethernet or MoCA to all your TVs, but who does that?

TiVo owners. Of course, that was a $800 + $100 per extra television investment.

 

[Dawg52]

An interesting article about the SpaceX internet cloud. Musk say's it will be low cost. Wonder what low cost is to a billionaire.

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/spa...ll-be-low-cost-launch-in-north-america-first/

This is something I will be following. Would love to cut ties with Comcast.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

TiVo owners. Of course, that was a $800 + $100 per extra television investment.

Yep, although when I installed ethernet jacks behind each TV we still had ReplayTVs, not TiVos. Of course, that was back when 802.11g was considered both new and fast! And, being frugal and house-poor, I had the electrician run the wire and install the outlet box, and I did the punch down of the jack myself.

 

[ncbill]

My Tivos are connected via Ethernet...but I did so by buying flat Ethernet cable & running it from the basement router under the downstairs window, behind a downspout up through the deck above and back under the upstairs window to the Tivo in the living room.

 

[Cobra9777]

...Of course it's better if you run Ethernet or MoCA to all your TVs, but who does that?...

I've been fishing wires through attics and down walls for a long time. Started with phone line and coax in the 80s. Speaker wire in the 90s (I was an enthusiastic early adopter of surround sound). And now cat5 over the last 15 years. All of our desktop PCs and TVs are hardwired with cat5 to the router. I've helped numerous people with this task over the years, including several friends and both kids every time they move.

One trick that makes it quite easy is to use an existing wall drop (like coax or phone line) to pull the cat5 wire up into the attic. You just have to attach a string to the original wire to pull it back down. Lately, I don't even bother with phone line or coax; I just remove the old wire (or leave it coiled up in the attic) and reuse the box on the wall for cat5. I also buy cat5 in bulk rolls and use a crimping tool to attach the connectors after running the cable.

I know some people are happy with WiFi and that's perfectly fine, especially if you have plenty of bandwidth capacity. I also know from first-hand experience helping lots of people run cat5, that it's an efficient way to eliminate an unnecessary variable for bandwidth-intensive applications like HD video streaming, video conferencing, VoIP, etc... especially with certain situations such as subpar internet service, large houses, detached buildings, or buildings with certain construction that hampers WiFi performance. I use WiFi only for less critical mobile and IoT devices. We recently installed a 6-node mesh system in addition to our conventional router-based WiFi network, so things are definitely improving at least in terms of coverage.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

I've been fishing wires through attics and down walls for a long time. Started with phone line and coax in the 80s. Speaker wire in the 90s (I was an enthusiastic early adopter of surround sound). And now cat5 over the last 15 years. All of our desktop PCs and TVs are hardwired with cat5 to the router. I've helped numerous people with this task over the years, including several friends and both kids every time they move.

One trick that makes it quite easy is to use an existing wall drop (like coax or phone line) to pull the cat5 wire up into the attic. You just have to attach a string to the original wire to pull it back down. Lately, I don't even bother with phone line or coax; I just remove the old wire (or leave it coiled up in the attic) and reuse the box on the wall for cat5. I also buy cat5 in bulk rolls and use a crimping tool to attach the connectors after running the cable.

I know some people are happy with WiFi and that's perfectly fine, especially if you have plenty of bandwidth capacity. I also know from first-hand experience helping lots of people run cat5, that it's an efficient way to eliminate an unnecessary variable for bandwidth-intensive applications like HD video streaming, video conferencing, VoIP, etc... especially with certain situations such as subpar internet service, large houses, detached buildings, or buildings with certain construction that hampers WiFi performance. I use WiFi only for less critical mobile and IoT devices. We recently installed a 6-node mesh system in addition to our conventional router-based WiFi network, so things are definitely improving at least in terms of coverage.

I had a friend who built a house and ran pvc piping down through various walls with access points, with the thought that as technology changed they would already have the run points for the new/improved whatever.

As an aside, even back in 2009 when I decided to do gigabit runs, I went Cat 6 over Cat 5 knowing that Cat 5 has length limitations for gigabit and that eventually I would see 10 gigabit come along. (Assuming I lived long enough.)

 

[camfused]

I had a friend who built a house and ran pvc piping down through various walls with access points, with the thought that as technology changed they would already have the run points for the new/improved whatever.

I did the same back in 1999 when I had my house built. And hardwired for an alarm system. Turns out, everything is wireless now

 

[samclem]

I had a friend who built a house and ran pvc piping down through various walls with access points, with the thought that as technology changed they would already have the run points for the new/improved whatever.

I do the same thing (usually with blue flexible "smurf tubing") whenever I have a wall opened up, and I leave a pull string in it with a label on each end describing where it goes. It takes only a little extra time and has come in handy.

 

[bUU]

And, being frugal and house-poor, I had the electrician run the wire and install the outlet box, and I did the punch down of the jack myself.

I know my limits. With the house we're going to have built later this year, I've got a professional running two CAT6 runs, between where high-speed Internet comes into the house and where we expect to have our entertainment center, and where we expect to have our computer. (He's also putting in a media chase so we can finally hang our HDTV on the wall.) It'll all be plug and play, from my standpoint. Can't wait.

 

[MichaelB]

Another update

Update on FitzyTV. For the past two days, once we turn on a program, it starts buffering, and from that point on, spends at least 1/3 of the time reloading and buffering. I changed channels to see if it is channel specific, and it isn’t.

Last night we also had a new issue. For Network programming was out of focus and misframed, and had a very low quality signal, like a badly degraded SD from the 50’s. Never had this problem on cable.

If this repeats tonight, I’ll probably start looking for an alternative.

Didn't have any buffering issue yesterday with Fitzy, because we couldn't watch it. For some reason, the channels we selected "were not authorized", even though we could see them a couple of days ago, and they are part of our Comcast basic package. None of the networks and a few of the cable channels.

I subscribed to Hulu live, just for the 7 day free trial. Will cancel before the trial ends. I'm going to try and resolve the issue with the Comcast app. If successful, I'll get a Roku device for the kitchen.

The point on Ethernet hardwire connections is a good one. We have wired connections all around the house, just about everywhere we would need one - except the kitchen, where we need it now.

 

[pb4uski]

...For some reason, the channels we selected "were not authorized", even though we could see them a couple of days ago, and they are part of our Comcast basic package. None of the networks and a few of the cable channels. ...

I had that happen a few days ago... FitzyTV said that my credentials didn't include NBCSN while I know that they do. I removed and reinstalled my Xfinity credentials in FitzyTV and that solved the issue.

 

[REWahoo]

After cutting the cord and ditching Dish satellite earlier this year, we've been very happy with OTA local channels, Amazon Prime, Philo and Acorn as our programming sources. The only thing we miss is the DVR for OTA programming as we had grown used to being able to watch those shows whenever we want and to zap the commercials. So, I've been investigating OTA DVR options with the following requirements:

1. Low cost - both for the initial investment in hardware and avoiding ongoing subscription requirements for programming guides, etc.

2. No internet required for playback - we want to be able to take the device along on our RV trips and watch the programs we've recorded. Since many of the places we visit have poor or no internet, the DVR playback function must not require internet/wi-fi.

What I discovered when I started looking for the "perfect" OTA DVR was no one has apparently come up with a way to build one. The most popular appear to be the Tivo Bolt, the Tablo Dual Lite, and the Amazon Fire Recast. All of these are priced north of $200 except the Tablo ($140) and either need internet for playback (Tablo & Recast) and/or a subscription service (Tablo & Tivo). Looking beyond these I came across the Channel Master Stream+ which looks to meet my criteria - with one potential drawback.

The Stream+ is priced at $149, requires no subscription service for program guides (has a 14 day guide via Google), and since it plugs directly into the TV, it requires no internet or wi-fi network for playback. As is the case of some of the other OTA DVR's, it does require you to provide your own external hard drive for storage. But in short, it looks to be almost perfect.

What's the catch?

The DVR works for only one TV. Yes, it has two tuners so you can record two OTA programs simultaneously, but you can only playback what you've recorded to the TV you have connected via a HDMI cable. Fortunately for DW and I, that isn't a problem since the OTA programs we record are almost always something we watch together.

I ordered it this AM and will report back after I've used it for a couple of weeks. Channel Master does offer a 30 day trial and will give a refund (less shipping charges) if you want to return it.

 

[Chuckanut]

If you watch for sales you can buy Tivo units with lifetime guide service (called All-In, IIRC). It's not free but is far less than paying the monthly fee for the life of the unit. I paid about $150 for lifetime service with my first Tivo and $100 for a reconditioned one I bought for a child. Both have sailed by the break even point many years ago. The lifetime service is for the life of the Tivo, not your lifetime. The only repair I've had to do is on the reconditioned one, where I replaced a noisy fan for about $20. I've since found the fan for even less on Amazon. Replacing the hard drive. which is the other part most likely to fail, is also easy with plenty of videos on Youtube describing the process. Just make sure the unit doesn't run hot. Keep it away from sources of heat and let plenty of air circulate around it. Works for me.

 

[RonBoyd]

What I discovered when I started looking for the "perfect" OTA DVR was no one has apparently come up with a way to build one.

Yeah, there is no perfect solution. The closest I have come to it (excluding my favorite SageTV which creates MP2/4 files) is the Tablo Quad. Yes, it is $200 for the unit and you have to purchase the storage separately... $50 to whatever you desire. (you also need to have a streaming device -- ROKU, Shield, Fire, etc. -- but if you are watching Prime, Acorn, and Philo, you must already have that.) You can watch the recording via the Internet through your own router but since it is very portable (small) and if you take your ROKU (or whatever) with you the Internet is not needed. (FWIW, If you have Internet, it would allow you to watch local programming live... in case you are in a blackout area.. <chuckle>)

My other suggestions are:

PlayOn, of course. PlayOn creates MP4 files that can be taken with you anywhere. Without the PlayOn Player you would have to fast forward through commercials, however.

HDHomeRun. You would have to purchase the Silicone Dust HDHomeRun Tuner (https://www.silicondust.com/) but it is a one time cost. The usage would be the same as with PlayOn.

A cheap but very effective method is Applian's Video Capture (https://applian.com/replay-video-capture/) which lets you capture any video displayed on your computer. Again, the usage would be like PlayOn. (The downside to this method is, unlike all the others, you cannot schedule the recording.)

I use all of these methods to various degrees.

Edit:

OH! I forgot PLEX. That is another option that I use quite frequently.

 

[Dave J]

I have now used a TABLO dual Tuner for OTA TV for a little over a year with good results. When I have been on trips I can watch live l TV on Laptop or tablet from my home. I can watch shows I've recorded, but only done that a few times. I'm happy with mine . YMMV

 

[explanade]

One thing about DVRs, enjoy them while you can.

I think if it were up to the content owners, we'd only watch on-demand or cloud DVRs where it's difficult if not impossible to skip commercials.

 

[walkinwood]

OH! I forgot PLEX. That is another option that I use quite frequently.

Plex has me vexed these days. They have a bug in their software (that they just recently introduced) that keeps you from watching a recording in progress from the start - if that recording has been underway for around 30+ minutes. Plex customer service is an online forum. Frustrated with it, but willing to give them a chance to fix it.

Emby seems to be a good alternative, but I'm not ready to spend time understanding it yet.

 

[timo2]

Is there a source that tells what frame rate each streaming services uses, and for which channels? With my upgraded 100Mbps internet (verified with speed tests), I tried watching hockey last night with the NBC Sports app on my Fire stick, logging in with my Dish credentials. It was still choppy. I'm convinced the problem isn't on my end, but rather that it was probably streamed at 30fps rather than 60. Is that the streaming service app, or is it the Fire stick?

It's just not enjoyable to watch sports that choppy. Sure, you can save money with streaming, but it's like telling a car enthusiast that they can save money by swapping their Charger Hellcat for one of those little Smart cars. Sure, it'll save money, and they can get every place they want to go with the Smart car, but it's not worth it. People are saying they can get a streaming service for half the price and get all the same channels, but they aren't really the same channels, but rather a substandard copy.

For me, that has always been my problem with streaming sports, especially hockey and american football. and why I still have Dish. every time I have tried streaming hockey and football, it is nauseous to watch. After some research, it is generally the quality of the broadcast, not what we might have have. I have 100Mbps and ethernet wired roku, and especially the lower priority hockey and football games come across as jumpy.

 

[REWahoo]

For me, that has always been my problem with streaming sports, especially hockey and american football. and why I still have Dish. every time I have tried streaming hockey and football, it is nauseous to watch. After some research, it is generally the quality of the broadcast, not what we might have have. I have 100Mbps and ethernet wired roku, and especially the lower priority hockey and football games come across as jumpy.

Have you given YouTube TV a try? According to this YouTube streams all the major sports channels at 60 frames per second to avoid choppiness, although some streaming devices may not support that speed. We have Roku Ultras, which do support 60 fps, that's why I plan on trying YouTube TV first when football season rolls around and I opt for a streaming service offering ESPN and other sports channels.

 

[audreyh1]

Agreed. Of course it's better if you run Ethernet or MoCA to all your TVs, but who does that?

We do. House configured with Ethernet at each set of TV outlets when we built it. So our two Apple TVs are directly connected.

 

[bUU]

If you watch for sales you can buy Tivo units with lifetime guide service (called All-In, IIRC). It's not free but is far less than paying the monthly fee for the life of the unit. I paid about $150 for lifetime service with my first Tivo and $100 for a reconditioned one I bought for a child. Both have sailed by the break even point many years ago. The lifetime service is for the life of the Tivo, not your lifetime. The only repair I've had to do is on the reconditioned one, where I replaced a noisy fan for about $20. I've since found the fan for even less on Amazon. Replacing the hard drive. which is the other part most likely to fail, is also easy with plenty of videos on Youtube describing the process. Just make sure the unit doesn't run hot. Keep it away from sources of heat and let plenty of air circulate around it. Works for me.

It has worked for me for almost twenty years. However, things are not quite as rosy as they once were:

- First: I've had eight TiVos. The three were SD units, with a single tuner each. I forget what it was that obsoleted the first one (an original unit), but at some point it became of only limited use, so that led to the second unit, and the third TiVo was a second tuner. Then the second round of obsolescence occurred: the switch to digital and HD. I still have and am using that unit, but only for OTA, since the cable company eventually switched to compression for many channels not supported by that unit. So obsolescence is a consistent concern.

(The other two units were media extenders, one of which failed after a lightning storm. These are not very well shielded units.)

- Second: Yes, the earlier units were decently affordable, but the top-shelf TiVo with lifetime service I purchased most recently came with an $800 price tag. It's been in service six years, now - have we broken even yet? We must have, perhaps even twice over. But still. (To be fair, you can get a prior model reconditioned with lifetime for $400, but for a current unit it'll cost at least $850.)

- Third: I am not as optimistic about the future. So while I'm not trashing my TiVos, I'm also not going to put another $800 investment into TiVo. First, we're moving and while we've always lived where there were great cable companies that supported CableCard quite well, that's not the case where we're going next. I don't want to mess with tuning adapters and such. I'm also putting my money where my mouth is: Rather than subscribing to cable immediately after we move, we're going to try just Internet service and streaming. Some people seem to think it gives everything we'd want for a lower price - we'll see.

One thing about DVRs, enjoy them while you can. I think if it were up to the content owners, we'd only watch on-demand or cloud DVRs where it's difficult if not impossible to skip commercials.

Precisely.

 

[pb4uski]

For me, that has always been my problem with streaming sports, especially hockey and american football. and why I still have Dish. every time I have tried streaming hockey and football, it is nauseous to watch. After some research, it is generally the quality of the broadcast, not what we might have have. I have 100Mbps and ethernet wired roku, and especially the lower priority hockey and football games come across as jumpy.

While I don't know what the problem that you are experiencing is, I don't think it is the stream... I've watched 3 Stanley Cup games recently on Fitzy TV on my Kindle Fire stick and the video quality has been fine... a friend who is an avid Bruins fan has watched them with me and had not complaints at all.

 

[RunningBum]

For me, a hockey puck being shot on Dish looks like:

_____________________________

When streaming, it looks more like

-----------------------------------------


I think this is due to some providers streaming at 30 frames per second instead of 60.

 

[easysurfer]

For me, that has always been my problem with streaming sports, especially hockey and american football. and why I still have Dish. every time I have tried streaming hockey and football, it is nauseous to watch. After some research, it is generally the quality of the broadcast, not what we might have have. I have 100Mbps and ethernet wired roku, and especially the lower priority hockey and football games come across as jumpy.

Kind of puzzles me why there isn't a buffering solution for watching streamed videos. There's buffering solutions for other things like burning a CD/DVR. My audio sync device which I use to sync up the radio broadcast to match the video on tv for ball games does some buffering. When I put my DVR on pause during a commercial, the DVR starts buffering writing to the hard drive.

I suppose technically too difficult to keep audio and video in sync? Or too difficult to build good quality with low bandwidth?

If some inventor came up with a way to buffer a slow stream so, though delayed, comes on the screen clear and in sync, the inventor will make millions.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

Kind of puzzles me why there isn't a buffering solution for watching streamed videos. There's buffering solutions for other things like burning a CD/DVR. My audio sync device which I use to sync up the radio broadcast to match the video on tv for ball games does some buffering. When I put my DVR on pause during a commercial, the DVR starts buffering writing to the hard drive.

I suppose technically too difficult to keep audio and video in sync? Or too difficult to build good quality with low bandwidth?

If some inventor came up with a way to buffer a slow stream so, though delayed, comes on the screen clear and in sync, the inventor will make millions.

Netflix used to (not sure anymore) have a secret screen where you could control/see streaming options (e.g. bit rate).

Some things like VLC allow you to control buffering, but the options are somewhat hidden.